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Post by kmanmx on Mar 1, 2008 23:09:10 GMT
I received my HD650 headphones yesterday, and currently just using them on my dads Rotel Ra 1062 amplfiier and matching cd player and they sound fantastic. I have ordered a Marantz CD5001 for myself and have read that it has a good headphone output, i am interested however on getting the Graham Slee Solo amplifier. However i was just wondering how much of an improvement it would bring over the headphone output on the cd player and dads amp. What should i expect, more bass and punch? or less because it will be flatter.
Just explain if there will be much difference, and ifso what will the difference be.
I will only be getting the amp without the PSU-1.
Thanks in advanced.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2008 23:26:59 GMT
kmanmx Normally, headphone outlets on CD players use a single dual I.C. and are very mediocre quality. I noticed that Marantz say "Newly Designed Headphone Amp. With Buffer Circuit" If this is properly implemented it could be quite good, although I doubt it will be nearly as good as the Solo. I suggest that you try the Marantz headphone output for yourself , before considering spending more money. The price of the Solo could buy you lots of CDs to play on the Marantz ! I am assuming that you aren't counting on the Solo for a birthday present , or gift from Dad ?
SandyK
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Post by fanboi on Mar 1, 2008 23:28:54 GMT
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 1, 2008 23:55:14 GMT
Thanks, yes marantz do specify it as a 'high quality headphone output'
The thing is im not after a flat, neutral sound that so many people seem to search for - for some reason. I like quite a warm, nice powerfull and tight bass, with treble thats not to harsh but just detailed, however i read that the Solo is quite a neutral amp ? so im unsure wether i would like the sound.
Then again, if its an improvement in detail, power, imageing, resolution etc just for a weeker bass than i would receive out of the cd player than it would be worth it.
Thanks alot, so how does the solo sound ? (e.g. pro's and con's)
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Post by fanboi on Mar 2, 2008 0:25:00 GMT
Buried within the article I linked above you would read things like, and I quote,
"Now to the 650's. Not at all what I expected. Suddenly here was a full-range set of headphones, seamless from top to bottom with the most delightful easy presentation and bass to die for. Utterly, utterly transformed. They made the 250's sound like a toy town orchestra. Putting on YBR, but this time on (yellow) vinyl just sucked me in - the result an all enveloping soundscape of such depth and clarity "
this is connected to a Solo
- please take the time to read the whole article, as it addresses exactly the issues on which you are seeking information and puts the quote within its proper context.
My post may have been short, that did not make it irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2008 0:28:49 GMT
kmanmx I only had a brief listen to Solo, so I will leave it to others to comment. However, the Voyager would go very well with a CD player, and also have the advantage of portability. I highly recommend the little Voyager, and understand that Solo is a little better again, as it also uses a buffer stage at the output. Voyager will be a cheaper alternative too.The choice is yours. SandyK
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 1:21:53 GMT
Buried within the article I linked above you would read things like, and I quote, "Now to the 650's. Not at all what I expected. Suddenly here was a full-range set of headphones, seamless from top to bottom with the most delightful easy presentation and bass to die for. Utterly, utterly transformed. They made the 250's sound like a toy town orchestra. Putting on YBR, but this time on (yellow) vinyl just sucked me in - the result an all enveloping soundscape of such depth and clarity " this is connected to a Solo - please take the time to read the whole article, as it addresses exactly the issues on which you are seeking information and puts the quote within its proper context. My post may have been short, that did not make it irrelevant. Sorry, i did infact read the entire article. I was just trying to get some more opinions, as we all know audio is a subjective topic. Sorry once more. Thanks for your help.
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 1:22:43 GMT
kmanmx I only had a brief listen to Solo, so I will leave it to others to comment. However, the Voyager would go very well with a CD player, and also have the advantage of portability. I highly recommend the little Voyager, and understand that Solo is a little better again, as it also uses a buffer stage at the output. Voyager will be a cheaper alternative too.The choice is yours. SandyK Ah okay thanks. Although i wouldn't want to keep changing the battery. Whats a buffer stage ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2008 1:35:39 GMT
kmanmx Voyager has several different modes , internal 9V battery, 5Volts from a PCs USB port, supplied plugpack. A buffer stage is a group of transistors after the output of an integrated circuit, to provide a higher current drive capability into the load. It also reduces loading on the I.C. which is beneficial to sound quality. SandyK
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Post by sometrolls2 on Mar 2, 2008 2:36:50 GMT
Generally the headphone out circuits have some low value cheap caps filtering for a single cheap opamp, which will give a very flat sound. The usual things like better caps, better opamp, and if you really go to town bypass cap for opamp and low noise regulators collectively will make a big difference, and take the headphone out up to the level of a basic chip amp design like CMOY. It would be a 1 in a million that this would matchup with the Voyager or Solo output, basically a bodge performing like a skillfully designed commercial circuit.
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Post by fanboi on Mar 2, 2008 3:53:35 GMT
Sorry, i did infact read the entire article. I was just trying to get some more opinions, as we all know audio is a subjective topic. Sorry once more. Thanks for your help. Fair enough , I can be a bit tetchy when I feel I'm wasting my breath I do think Sandy is right, try it first before you splash out on an amp rather than assuming you need one. At one time there was some discussion on driving headphones from the speaker terminals using inline resistors. If you are a DIY type you might enquire about that option. enjoy them.
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FritzS
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Post by FritzS on Mar 2, 2008 6:30:41 GMT
kmanmx Normally, headphone outlets on CD players use a single dual I.C. and are very mediocre quality. I noticed that Marantz say "Newly Designed Headphone Amp. With Buffer Circuit" If this is properly implemented it could be quite good, although I doubt it will be nearly as good as the Solo. I suggest that you try the Marantz headphone output for yourself , before considering spending more money. The price of the Solo could buy you lots of CDs to play on the Marantz ! I am assuming that you aren't counting on the Solo for a birthday present , or gift from Dad ? SandyK My Marantz SA7001 KI have a headphone amp nearly as Solo - but only the output cap is 47 uF and cut off the bass - and it's use a Japan OPA - two things to mod - but I have a Solo
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 2, 2008 10:37:05 GMT
My Marantz SA7001 KI have a headphone amp nearly as Solo - but only the output cap is 47 uF and cut off the bass - and it's use a Japan OPA - two things to mod - but I have a Solo 47uF output caps? Wow that means the likes of 32R Grado would cut off at 105.82Hz are you going to change this cap Fritz? A good little calculator here www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RCpad.htm in the "resistor" section simply input the impedance of your headphones and then choose an appropriate value of capacitor.
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 11:37:58 GMT
Just been looking at the Graham Slee Voyager, it is sounding quite tempting I could use it with my PSP as i have some very high quality AAC music files on there, but the PSP sucks at powering my HD650's, very quiet tiny and thin sound (understandably) So will this still be a substantial and noteable difference over the headphone out on the cd player or my pc (onboard sound, not a sound card) for example, or is it along the same lines as them now in sound quality?
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leo
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Post by leo on Mar 2, 2008 11:39:58 GMT
At one time there was some discussion on driving headphones from the speaker terminals using inline resistors. If you are a DIY type you might enquire about that option. enjoy them. I've tried this and it works well as long as the speaker amp is of good quality. All you need is some resistors,sockets, cable and a little box sound.westhost.com/project100.htm
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Post by cyreg on Mar 2, 2008 12:37:55 GMT
Hi, kmanmx I just listened for about 15 minutes to my CD5001(has at least 50 hrs burn-in HPamp) with volumecontrol in midposition mated with HD600. Sounds OK. But...after that I listened with my Solo/Intro (same soundlevel) directly from the CD5001 connected through good quality IC and.........
I compared 2 songs from Dire Straits/Brothers in arms/Ride across the river and Eagles/Hell freezes over/hotel California.
It was evident from the first minute and: Not really big soundbalance difference, but with the Solo much more reality, 3D, details, dynamics, start/stop sounds.
Well to me it was very clear and if the Voyager (it has good reviews even with the HD650) has 90% of the same Solo qualities, I think you're in for a treat and much flexibility.
I did find out that the CD5001 is very dependend on the right Phase/Neutral powerconnection for the very good sound it delivers on my system. If you can, do try it in both ways!!
Good luck Han
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 13:18:29 GMT
Thanks, i have that dire straights album aswell Some good guitars on that I think i will be getting the Denon DCD-A700AE CD player now, because you can order it online for a good price, and it has a warmer sound than most players - which i like. If i get this with the Voyager i save quite a bit of money also. Or i could get the Creek OBH-21, any opinions on this amp ? Do the right cables come with the CD players or do they need to be purchased ? Also, i really don't understand how you connect the CD player to the headphone amp ?, what cable do i need , phono to 3.5mm ? Would this work: www.hifix.co.uk/sku.lasso?QED-ONE%20STEREO%20AUDIO%20CABLE%20PHONO%20TO%20JACK&item=9000baec8a6f3212a9ccc07037e894033d3f493eebc6034c8fca7f5ce7ef00bd882e82c781fd442fb345cc9508306598 <-- copy entire link However, it says: The QED Stereo Audio cable 1 is a 1.5 meter 2 phono to 3.5mm jack plug which can be used to connect a mp3/CD player, PC or anything with a line out to an amplifier…….... So will this still work sending the signal from cdp to amp (line in, not line out as stated above)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2008 20:10:35 GMT
kmanmx CD player to most amplifiers, requires a 2 RCA plug (phono) to 2 RCA plug cable. However, to connect Voyager to a normal CD player you will need a 2 RCA to 3.5mm stereo plug cable. SandyK
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 20:44:30 GMT
Thanks.
So, is the Voyager any good as a dedicated desktop amplifier compared to my CDP?
Or should i just get the the Creek OBH 21.
Im not sure i can be bothered to save up for the Solo anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2008 20:54:25 GMT
kmanmx Voyager will outperform virtually all CD players internal headphone amplifiers, with the possible exception of a few of the VERY high priced SACD players . Someone else will have to answer the question about Creek OBH 21
SandyK
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 20:58:57 GMT
Okay thanks, problem is its quite light so if i ever get up i see the weight of the cable just pulling it straight off Will they be able to drive the HD-650's well ? Sorry for all the quesitons
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 2, 2008 20:59:21 GMT
So, is the Voyager any good as a dedicated desktop amplifier compared to my CDP? The Voyager is good but it ain't that good Fine for what it is, ie: a portable amp, but it's not going to do a very good job of driving the HD-650 to their best ability IMO. If you're thinking of spending £200 on a dedicated headamp for the HD-650 I would strongly recommend you take a look at the "Singer", it's an absolute CORKER of an amp and with my HD-600 it's a match made in heaven. It'll show the Voyager a clean pair of heels, the Creek too and also the Solo. There's a thread here about the SingerAs far as I know the one I have on audition is the only one in the UK but I can get one over for you if you decide you want one.
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Post by kmanmx on Mar 2, 2008 21:03:35 GMT
I would buy the singer, but it would take a while at a guess, i want to be buying soon - im impatient But i'm willing to consider it. How much would it cost, how long would it take etc..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2008 21:15:41 GMT
Mike You and your insider information ! Any amplifier of that calibre is an awful lot of pocket money for our young friend ! I was trying to save him some money, as he isn't after the same degree of accuracy that you and I may normally prefer. That's why Fanboi and myself originally suggested listening to his original choice of CD player before spending that kind of money. Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 2, 2008 21:22:40 GMT
I would buy the singer, but it would take a while at a guess, i want to be buying soon - im impatient But i'm willing to consider it. How much would it cost, how long would it take etc.. As I said in my previous post..... £200 shipped direct to the UK from the factory in China (I'll double check on this) Mine took about 5 days to arrive and was tracked all the way. The Voyager is cheaper (£20 cheaper) but surely you'd rather spend £20 more and get an amp that will blow your socks off with the HD-650? I disagree with Alex, if you've got the HD-650 no point throwing some crummy amp at them, you want to partner them with something half decent and something that will last for years.... if all you're looking for is a cheap amp in a plastic enclosure then there are tons of them on ebay at prices to suit every wallet.
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