leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
Posts: 3,638
|
Post by leo on Feb 17, 2008 22:20:05 GMT
Would Lehmann black cube be good enough?? Isn't that amp over your budget?
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 18, 2008 7:49:32 GMT
By wide bandwidth, you mean more solid state? Are you a tube or SS fan Sandyk. Well, I bought tubes in the first place because I was afraid headphone listening was so intense that you really would want that 'softning' of the sound, to not become tired after a long time of use. But honestly, when watching movies, it is a all different ballgame with solid state. Though I agree, tubes are more realistic, and I understand many people like it. But I like the detail, remember I like 'Krell' Anynoe seen a krell tube amp? Positioning, and details and bass is just soo much better. The Lehmann black cube , have a look at the innside. If the Heed had looked like that, I would have bought it at once !! Reviews say it sounds very sweet. Is it the best? I can afford it, but is it worth the money, how good is lehmann black on AKG K 701, using X-dac v3 with silver interconnects? Or does anyone know how good the DAC in the lehmann black usb is? I have trouble selling my x-can v3 though...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2008 8:07:08 GMT
Krisno I think my Avatar answers that ! "Team Transistors rule" As far as I am concerned , the average valve amplifier would be unable to handle the higher resolution formats such as SACD and DVD-A acceptably (up to 192KHZ sampling rate).Don't forget that the new formats for BluRay and HD use LPCM at higher sampling rates too. I was taught,(around 1955) that an amplifier should have a frequency response of at least 3 to 5 times the highest frequency to be reproduced. These days, many technical people agree that bandwidth should be far greater than previously supposed , to ensure the integrity of the harmonic structure to around the 8th harmonic !
SandyK
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 18, 2008 9:12:43 GMT
Right.. so conclusion is the same 'tubes is for LP'. What amp do you use now SandyK? I am still happy I never got the Heed, I will get the Lehmann if I am able to sell this x-can. Only thing is that 'x-can and x-dac make a nice stack together'. Is the Lehmann good stuff? Look at the innside of the Lehmann vs the Heed. My god, it's transistor nirvana vs hell It seems noone can afford the Lehmann, noone talks about it in headfi, and noone here. Wonder if USB DAC in the lehman usb version is any good, or i think mf is better. MF has alot of DAC experience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2008 9:33:33 GMT
Krisno Not as far as I am concerned ! Good LPs (1/2 Speed Mastered etc) have frequency response past 30KHZ and definitely benefit from wider bandwidth amplifiers to make the sharply rising waveforms of clicks and plops less noticeable. I use a home brew amplifier based on the Silicon Chip 15W/Ch. Class A amplifier , but with several personal tweaks known almost exclusively to a few good friends in Sydney, and in this forum. The Silicon Chip amplifier's basic design is derived from the research of the noted English Audio author, and manufacturer, Douglas Self. I am not really across commercial amplifiers, although we have done comparisons in Sydney with several big name amplifiers such as Krell. Also our preamps were compared with a AU$6,000 Krell preamplifier. IMHO, our group's amplifiers were better. A friend's 100W/Ch. Class AB amplifier with basically similar enhancements, would also give even the best of the best, of the high priced big name amplifiers a run for the money. SandyK
|
|
leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
Posts: 3,638
|
Post by leo on Feb 18, 2008 12:18:16 GMT
Lehmann still uses op-amp on the input with transistors on its output, its actually not a lot different to that Silicon chip headphone amp on the diy section, if you search around the schematic for the Lehmann can be found I've not heard the Lehmann so can't comment on its sound, it should drive the AKG's but that does not mean you'll like the sound, you really need to listen to this stuff first Watch out SandyK, you''ll soon get the transistor haters screaming they are non-linear and must be forced into linearity through massive feedback systems ;D
|
|
pagan
<100
How do I activate my account?
Posts: 81
|
Post by pagan on Feb 18, 2008 12:53:29 GMT
Lehmann still uses op-amp on the input with transistors on its output, its actually not a lot different to that Silicon chip headphone amp on the diy section, if you search around the schematic for the Lehmann can be found I've not heard the Lehmann so can't comment on its sound, it should drive the AKG's but that does not mean you'll like the sound, you really need to listen to this stuff first Watch out SandyK, you''ll soon get the transistor haters screaming they are non-linear and must be forced into linearity through massive feedback systems ;D Leo Transistors!! weren;t they just dam expensive fuses? hehe
|
|
|
Post by dc on Feb 18, 2008 13:26:55 GMT
I haven't heard the Lehmann Black Cube Linear
But I own a Yulong HEF188 "headphone buffer" which is a Chinese clone of the Lehmann. It is supposed to be very close to the Lehmann but much cheaper.
Anyway, it's a powerful amp, but it's sound is a little on the sharp side. IMHO it's not even that detailed, it uses an OPA2134 for voltage gain and a transistor based output stage. IMHO a good amp but not spectacular not worth its asking price.
So I can't tell you what the BCL sounds like but the HEF188 is an ok amp.
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 18, 2008 14:17:58 GMT
Specs are good to use as bragging points. SOUND is what matters, and unless you put time listening to the gear you can not and should not make final decisions based solely on specs. X2
|
|
FritzS
Been here a while!
Sound of Blue Danube
Sound of Blue Danube
Posts: 1,364
|
Post by FritzS on Feb 18, 2008 14:47:07 GMT
A tube amp designed for AKG K1000 and K701: ITM CapoTube - use 6C41 in power stage www.praktiker.at/prjkha/index.htmlpics www.praktiker.at/prjkha02.htmDiese Entwicklung aus dem "praktiker"-Labor ist mit sehr tatkräftiger Unterstützung von Wolfgang Paltauf, der Kapaziät im Bau von Röhrenverstärkern in Österreich schlechthin (im Bild rechts mit ITM CapoTube und Kopfhörer AKG K1000) entstanden. Der Ausgangsübertrager wurde von Rainer Thöress, Aachen, Deutschland errechnet und das Gehäuse für die Elektronik wurde von Alexander Seidler, Graz konstruiert.
If anyone interested about please send me a PM
|
|
leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
Posts: 3,638
|
Post by leo on Feb 18, 2008 16:29:56 GMT
Specs are good to use as bragging points. SOUND is what matters, and unless you put time listening to the gear you can not and should not make final decisions based solely on specs. X2 I've heard more than a few hyped amps that sounded bloody awful! I do like to know the circuit topology though to give me an idea if its a gold plated turd or not
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 18, 2008 18:43:23 GMT
This is an EXPERTS comments from Head-FI, on the Heed vs Arietta. Interesting read, and confirms what I am saying. But I think I will go for the Lehmann, I can get one used 5hours, for around £380. If I am able to sell the X-Can v3.
'''''' At first, i thought you were pissed off. But then i read it twice, and i knew after then it was more of a question.
Okay here's why i think it's disastrous:
To pay $340 for a skezeres+opa, one would normally expect something decent:
1) NE5534 for opamp, they cost like $1.00 per chip over at my place here. 2) Using a BD139, that opamp and a direct skezeres design is "hardly" "good research". I'm sure Heed can do much better than just using parts/designs most diy-ers normally would use. 3) PCB is of bad quality, single layer + weak copper traces + no solder mask. I did not have a hard time modding it but it gave me a very unprofessional impression. Without proper care, one could really rip the traces off when desoldering. 4) Jamicon cheap caps for PSU caps. Cheap input decoupling caps. Normally Class A doesnt matter because they draw constant current but only 1000uF per rail for a snubberize PSU? Why not just hammer in some cheap regulators? 5) Overall generic/poor/cheap parts, the only good thing is the Alps potentiometer. 6) Transformer build issues for the late batches.
I'm not comparing sound quality here, however just how the way they've decided to build it (poorly) and sell it at a high price. I definitely won't suggest it to someone else in future. Of course i'm not talking about the sound quality. Just based on the topology alone, i would definitely recommend this amp over conventional opamp ---> monolithic buffer type amplifiers. But the build quality is serious facepalm.jpg
On the other hand, the Arietta's cost is much much higher than the Heed and it costs much much less than the Heed. Plus, it is after all what i would say "professionally built". I won't have to even think twice to suggest the Arietta over the Heed. (unless heed actually fixes their poor quality build).
That is all.''''
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 18, 2008 23:41:48 GMT
Oh dear, another "expert". What is he an expert on..... the sound quality of an amplifier or adding up the parts cost on a calculator? The HEED is a lovely sounding amp "period" and I don't need an expert to tell me that, I use my own ears
|
|
|
Post by dc on Feb 19, 2008 0:09:21 GMT
he's not an expert because he as he even said, he is basing his comments on the parts cost than the actual sound of the unit
he also hasn't heard the meier units, he is again basing him claims on what his eyes see not what his ears hear
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2008 0:14:16 GMT
I can see where the "expert" is coming from, as the asking price, on the surface at least, does seem a wee bit steep for the build quality and components used. However , these "experts" invariably fail to take into account the overheads of a small boutique manufacturer. In the end, though, YOU have to decide if the sound quality , and ultimate enjoyment of the unit , leaves you feeling ripped off. If the answer is NO, then the asking price is soon forgotten. SandyK
|
|
leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
Posts: 3,638
|
Post by leo on Feb 19, 2008 0:36:39 GMT
He seems certain he's not interested in the Heed which is a shame. I'll knock another one up and try it with the K701's , the last one I cobbled together sounded good IMO, better than the Chiarra too tbh which itself is a nice amp
|
|
leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
Posts: 3,638
|
Post by leo on Feb 19, 2008 0:39:04 GMT
BTW yes its a very simple design but lacks all the pointless crap you often see inside other units
|
|
FritzS
Been here a while!
Sound of Blue Danube
Sound of Blue Danube
Posts: 1,364
|
Post by FritzS on Feb 19, 2008 8:22:09 GMT
I think design a amp looks like cooking a good set meal as compare a fast food restaurant with a ***** restaurant both use the same recipe, but with different quality of ingredients and flavouring ingredients what cost's a set meal in a fast food restaurant and what in a ***** restaurant? we in "Old Europe Continent" .... DE, FR, IT, AT, .... are gourmet's ..... but did UK people understand this?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2008 8:40:59 GMT
Friedrich
I may not be from the U.K. ,. but I am of Scottish descent. So I will save Mike the trouble .Gourmets ? My Right Royal ARSE ! W.A.L.O.C. ( What A Load Of Crap)
Sandyk
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 19, 2008 15:58:52 GMT
I think I will get the Lehmann Audio Black cube... It is a very good pre-amp in that thing as a bonus. Some people use that lehmann as a pre-amp only.
You can also add the Lehmann 'stamp' and get speaker audio..
Why is there no comments on the Lehmann black audio? Noone can afford it?
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 19, 2008 20:51:04 GMT
Anyone of you guys tried this? www.audiovenue.co.uk/products_info.asp?id=756&cat=1&sub=6Look a bit down on the page and have a look at that torroidal psu. Mother of god, that one is big. This is what I want. The MF stuff is nice, but built inn , not cable clutter, no nothing. Out from the specs, is this one better than the X-dAC v3? It has alot more and better connections though. But does it sound the same? It is 50% lower price than the X-dacV8 !!!! x-dac v8 is just so messy. Many complain about the USB not working properly, and it has tubes and ss, why pay extra for both when you will listen only with one . What you think? I will get this + Lehmann audio digital link and run on my AKG . Will it be nice? probably.... If I can afford it though. Difficult to get one refurbished.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2008 21:06:21 GMT
Krisno It has many similarities to the X-DAC V3, including the same upsampling chip. It has the latest in the Burr Brown (T.I.) PCM179X series of DACs, and would only (IMO) have a very small advantage over the PCM1792 used in the X-DAC V3. If properly implemented it should outperform the X-DAC V3, but then again, so it should at around double the price !
SandyK
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Feb 19, 2008 21:14:06 GMT
It has the 'USB' ! heh.
well, its not double the price. X-Dac v3 is $1000 new, and so is this.
But I am going for lehmann, and also probably selling the little pinkie.
Actually, i tried again and again my friend, but on the X-can v3, I am not able to hear the difference between 256kbit mp3 and FLAC. And I am not that old(27). Is this because of the noisefloor in tubes being so low. No wonder details 'goes away'.
But anyways, Sandy, did you honestly hear much differnece on the little pinkie on the x-dac v3 and not? (before your major mod).
But thanks for looking at the specs, the x-dac will sound the same then, so just waste of money to get it.
Kristian
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2008 21:51:53 GMT
Krisno My X-DACV3 cost AU$1,099. That link's price translated to approx AU$1,700. It's not double, but considerably dearer. A lot of people will disagree with me , but I don't like .flac files, and on my equipment they sound vastly inferior to the original CD after reconversion to .wav. With lesser equipment, many people may find it hard to pick between FLAC and a high bit rate MP3. I haven't a great deal of experience with .ape files (Monkeys Audio) but on the few tracks that I tried ,it did seem better than FLAC. Miguel's favourite lossless files (Apple) may be a better alternative ? I haven't personally tried it though, as hard disc space is much cheaper these days, so I use .wav files. I never used the little Pinkie, but I have no reason to doubt the claims for the improvement it makes, when compared with the abyssmal supplied wallwart. I quickly replaced the wallwart with a + and - 15V dual regulated supply that I built. (It worked without internal modifications.)
SandyK
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2008 23:29:00 GMT
It has the 'USB' ! heh. well, its not double the price. X-Dac v3 is $1000 new, and so is this. But I am going for lehmann, and also probably selling the little pinkie. Actually, i tried again and again my friend, but on the X-can v3, I am not able to hear the difference between 256kbit mp3 and FLAC. And I am not that old(27). Is this because of the noisefloor in tubes being so low. No wonder details 'goes away'. But anyways, Sandy, did you honestly hear much differnece on the little pinkie on the x-dac v3 and not? (before your major mod). But thanks for looking at the specs, the x-dac will sound the same then, so just waste of money to get it. Kristian krisno, If the Pinkie isn't doing it for you then I will give you a full refund, no probs man.... no need to sell it just send it back to me and I'll refund you in full PM me and we can arrange this. No two pairs of ears are identical and it can take an age to find the right equipment to suit your own taste. My advice would be to try (if you can) possible amps / sources at home and use your ears. Quite a lot of audio firms are happy to let you audition gear (usually the ones that are confident the gear they sell actually delivers the sonics to 80% of the people 100% of the time) You'll go round the twist "reading" reviews... the only way to do it is to use your own ears. I wish you all the best and let us know when you've found that special ingredient that works magic for you Pinkie.
|
|