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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 5:34:27 GMT
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rowuk
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Pain in the ass, ex-patriot yank living in the land of sauerkraut
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Post by rowuk on Sept 6, 2014 9:22:09 GMT
I have never heard of Grado cans being called "sweet" in spite of the top octave bite or DT770s sour due to the big bass.............
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jc
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Post by jc on Sept 6, 2014 11:24:23 GMT
I can't help but think a far more basic element, that has always been known but has been missed hear(pun) and thus the results misconstrued. Low tones do not tend to inspire a relaxed atmosphere or psyche and would stimulate other senses to be to forefront instead of tatse. High tones would do similar so no surprise that one or other range of tatse is effected by them. This is where "background music" has always played its role. A balance of inoffensive, relaxing sound that puts the hearing sense at ease, allowing the taste, sight and smell to dominate your awareness while eating. Using exact music to match the dish, like the seashore sounds with seafood example given, is rather too obvious to be given any award of discovery. These researchers got paid for this?
Try playing farm animal sounds at a vegetatarian restaurant! Oh yes, I'll enjoy my quorn listening to that, I don't suppose you have a slaughter house soundtrack...
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alex30
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Post by alex30 on Oct 2, 2014 11:15:28 GMT
Hi, For a very long time I have avoided eating where music is being played as I found that the music always decreased my enjoyment of the food, regardless of the type of music being played. It was as if my brain was being deflected away from the food , even if it was at a subconscious level, and I would arrive at the end of the meal and realise that I hadn't really tasted much of what I had just eaten. I think where the research is interesting is in the concept that different frequencies affect our taste perception in different ways ie high frequency = sweeter whilst low frequency = more bitter. To me there is no obvious cognitive link up as to why this should be so, unlike CJ's example of sea sounds and sea food. I have long held the view that burn in of audio equipment takes place largely in our heads as our brain adapts to what we feed it. The only truly related audio based and personal experience I can offer here was in relation to a set of AKG 702 headphones that I bought. At first they seemed thin ( but I had been using a set of old and very coloured Senns). Gradually , with usage, the 702's became much fuller and more satisfying and this seemed to be in line with the commonly quoted idea that the AKG's need an extensive burn in. However after about 12 months of extensive use my neighbor, after borrowing my AKG's, decided to buy himself a set. We decided to do a comparison of his brand new set and my well burned in set. No matter what we did , in terms of blind trialling , we could not differentiate between the two although his were straight out of the box and , according to common wisdom , needed prolonged burning in before they would be at their best . Both seemed as rich as the other and both were just as satisfying. I do think that most of us do not take into account just how powerful the brain is when it comes to interpreting , or even misinterpreting all the sensory information it receives on a daily basis and how it can , given the right circumstances, make fairly major adjustments in order to smooth out our path.I reckon that my brain had detoxed from the thick and cloying sound of the very old Senns and had readjusted in order to appreciate the cleaner more transparent sound of the AKG. A non audio example of this was when I wore my first pair of specs. Distances were all over the place. I would look at the steps of the staircase and not know where to place my foot as I couldn't judge the distance. After a day all was back where it should be and now, although I only wear my specs infrequently , as soon as I put them on my brain does an immediate adjustment and all is well. Oddly no one has ever suggested that my specs needed a good few hours burn in before they would reach their full potential. Am I a burn in skeptic ? Not really but I do believe that any effect is probably a lot less than we imagine and certainly much less than the adaptation that takes place in the brain.
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jc
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Post by jc on Oct 2, 2014 20:11:43 GMT
Absolutely agree with that BUT there is a burn in factor on most electrical products and the two are often confused. For most equipment this is a relatively short period while all the electronics "bed-in". For example electrolytic capacitors need to "form", i.e. pass electricity until the materials they are made from have settled. Some circuits are more sensitive others (see the "JLH" ripple rejection board thread for a discussion on this very matter). Most HiFis require a few minutes to "warm up" and sound their best. Again, this is electronic components reaching their optimal operating temperature.
Coincidentally I have had a similar circumstance with the K701s. Again mine being the well used set that impressed a friend that promptly purchased his own. Said friend was concerned his were not the same as mine at which I reminded him of burn in. We did a comparison a couple of days later and there was definitely an easily discernible difference, mine sounding more open and more willing in the lower frequencies. We even blind tested eachother to prove the point, both of us identifying the correct headphones 100%. I heard them again a month later and the gap had narrowed (he left them running permanently 24/7). The next chance I had was a very long time later and they were then indistinguishable.
Experiences do seem to to vary though which is why I think burn-in and accustomisation get confused or their borders blurred. On top of that we all listen in different ways and home in on very different "tells" on musical presentation. If we were all highly trained and experienced musicians, with many hours of studio time under our belts, I fancy this field would be narrowed significantly.
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alex30
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Post by alex30 on Oct 3, 2014 8:20:18 GMT
Absolutely agree with that BUT there is a burn in factor on most electrical products and the two are often confused. For most equipment this is a relatively short period while all the electronics "bed-in". For example electrolytic capacitors need to "form", i.e. pass electricity until the materials they are made from have settled. Some circuits are more sensitive others (see the "JLH" ripple rejection board thread for a discussion on this very matter). Most HiFis require a few minutes to "warm up" and sound their best. Again, this is electronic components reaching their optimal operating temperature. Coincidentally I have had a similar circumstance with the K701s. Again mine being the well used set that impressed a friend that promptly purchased his own. Said friend was concerned his were not the same as mine at which I reminded him of burn in. We did a comparison a couple of days later and there was definitely an easily discernible difference, mine sounding more open and more willing in the lower frequencies. We even blind tested eachother to prove the point, both of us identifying the correct headphones 100%. I heard them again a month later and the gap had narrowed (he left them running permanently 24/7). The next chance I had was a very long time later and they were then indistinguishable. Experiences do seem to to vary though which is why I think burn-in and accustomisation get confused or their borders blurred. On top of that we all listen in different ways and home in on very different "tells" on musical presentation. If we were all highly trained and experienced musicians, with many hours of studio time under our belts, I fancy this field would be narrowed significantly. Hi cj, I do agree with what you say. In the good old days our television and radio took ages to warm up and until they did performance was patchy at best. Obviously manufacturers have improved things dramatically in that respect but some warm up is still needed for some electronics. As regards actual burn in I have remembered that when I got my DAC I noticed some slight sibilance on a couple of tracks. I wasn't sure if it was poor recording or the new DAC. Anyway I did a little audio editing and isolated each offending S and removed the sibilance. I kept the original tracks for future reference and also because I don't really like to alter the original work even though I was only rounding off a few harsh S'. After a number of months I remembered the originals and upon playing them I could not hear any sibilance at all . Where they had been was now buttery smooth instead of harsh and grating I can only deduce that the DAC's circuitry was behaving slightly differently. The difference was only very slight and I couldn't detect any other changes on those tracks but there was a difference from originally when I had been prompted to undertake the tedious editing. I say tedious because I didn't use a blanket solution but isolated and altered each individual offending S.
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