XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 3, 2011 16:47:09 GMT
How many of you guys had heard the LCD 2 versus the LCD 3? Any comments?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 23:06:53 GMT
heard the LCD-2 (mkI) no comments on the bass and mids... perhaps it could do with a bit more top-end to suit my personal taste/preference.
never heard the LCD3
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 3, 2011 23:55:14 GMT
heard the LCD-2 (mkI) no comments on the bass and mids... perhaps it could do with a bit more top-end to suit my personal taste/preference. never heard the LCD3 Actually, I heard it yesterday at the local Hifi show but withheld any comments so as not to influence the responses here so that it's a more accurate subjective reporting. If we compare the FR graphs provided, the LCD 2 and 3 are almost the same (well, that was what they were for the promoters' sets at the show) yet we can hear very obvious subjective differences which the supposedly objective measurements can provide us the answer cannot convincingly prove to us. I wanted to hear what others said about them before I put in my comments. Of course, my comments are going to be based on first impression of 5 minutes, as there was some que to listen to the LCD 2 and 3, and the LCD 3 being run in for less than 50 hrs, according to the promoters at the show. But one thing I can leak out to get the adrenalin flowing, or not flowing depending on which paradigm you are in, is that the LCD 3 is not double the performance when double the price of the LCD 2 (should be mk 2 I'm hearing as it's the distributor's promoters sets). In fact, I went to the show just to mainly hear the LCDs and the JL Audio subs, the current local highend rage. Welcome any insights into the LCDs. Will upload photos of the LCDs displayed and even the show when I have the time maybe later as I need to go to the market as usual on Sunday morning.
|
|
joethearachnid
Been here a while!
Old head on young shoulders.
Posts: 380
|
Post by joethearachnid on Dec 4, 2011 0:08:17 GMT
I've heard the LCD-2 rev1s before, though it was some time ago. This was running through some fairly serious hi-end stuff, too. Overall I thought they were very good, nice tonal balance, but ultimately not as totally incredible as their propents had made them out to be. I certainly preferred them to the HE-4/5/6 but ultimately enjoyed the HD 600 and RE-262 more. Hell, I enjoyed the RE-262 and HD 600 more than the Stax SR-007 rig I heard. I really need to get me both of those...
-JoetheArachnid
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 4, 2011 0:19:42 GMT
I've heard the LCD-2 rev1s before, though it was some time ago. This was running through some fairly serious hi-end stuff, too. Overall I thought they were very good, nice tonal balance, but ultimately not as totally incredible as their propents had made them out to be. I certainly preferred them to the HE-4/5/6 but ultimately enjoyed the HD 600 and RE-262 more. Hell, I enjoyed the RE-262 and HD 600 more than the Stax SR-007 rig I heard. I really need to get me both of those... -JoetheArachnid Without leaking out too much, you are congruent to my "leaked" comment above.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 5, 2011 5:36:28 GMT
Ok guys, photo time ............ as promised! Lovely wood, fit and comfort. Yeah, big heads no problem at all, just like the Senns HD800. Anyone heard it care to share as well?
|
|
|
Post by apmusson on Dec 7, 2011 11:55:06 GMT
Hi,
I tried the LCD2 rev 2 a couple of weeks ago and loved them. I am just waiting to try a pair of LCD3s before making a decision, but they would have to be pretty good to beat the LCD2s.
Ade
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 7, 2011 14:45:14 GMT
Hi, I tried the LCD2 rev 2 a couple of weeks ago and loved them. I am just waiting to try a pair of LCD3s before making a decision, but they would have to be pretty good to beat the LCD2s. Ade Hi, The LCD 3 is not twice the improvement of the LCD 2 for almost twice the price. That was what I gather at the hifi show. If you are just after the planar sound, IMVHO, the LCD 2 will suffice. However, as always for peace of mind, get the LCD 3 if you can stretch to twice the moola. The LCD 3 is better than LCD 2 overall especially in the high. But given the LCD 2, I can still be happy with it but only the peace of mind of not having the best. Please share with us here what you think of the LCD 3 after hearing it and I will share mine as well for a better understanding of the true characteristics of the LCD 3.
|
|
elysion
Been here a while!
Team Anti M$ AND Facebook.
contra torrentem
Posts: 2,375
|
Post by elysion on Dec 18, 2011 10:33:28 GMT
Perhaps they have a similar price policy as for example AKG and others:
The newest and "best" models are sold for a lot more money while the price of the older models decreases over time. If that is true (I don't know), then it could be worth to wait a while.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 18, 2011 10:39:10 GMT
Perhaps they have a similar price policy as for example AKG and others: The newest and "best" models are sold for a lot more money while the price of the older models decreases over time. If that is true (I don't know), then it could be worth to wait a while. I wouldn't mind waiting if that's their policy as well. But the LCD 2 has NOT come down in price after the LCD 3 launch yet.
|
|
|
Post by apmusson on Dec 20, 2011 15:40:55 GMT
I sure will. The stockist says he will have them in next week so shouldn't be long now. I agree about the price / performance ratio. I loved the LCD2s and luckily a friend of mine has a pair so that I can do a direct comparison with the LCD3s. I will post when I get to do the comparison (with some piccies too). Ade Hi, I tried the LCD2 rev 2 a couple of weeks ago and loved them. I am just waiting to try a pair of LCD3s before making a decision, but they would have to be pretty good to beat the LCD2s. Ade Hi, The LCD 3 is not twice the improvement of the LCD 2 for almost twice the price. That was what I gather at the hifi show. If you are just after the planar sound, IMVHO, the LCD 2 will suffice. However, as always for peace of mind, get the LCD 3 if you can stretch to twice the moola. The LCD 3 is better than LCD 2 overall especially in the high. But given the LCD 2, I can still be happy with it but only the peace of mind of not having the best. Please share with us here what you think of the LCD 3 after hearing it and I will share mine as well for a better understanding of the true characteristics of the LCD 3.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Dec 21, 2011 1:38:23 GMT
I agree about the price / performance ratio. I loved the LCD2s and luckily a friend of mine has a pair so that I can do a direct comparison with the LCD3s. I will post when I get to do the comparison (with some piccies too). Excellent! So it also wouldn't be long when all at RG have first hand and a good comparison report since you will have both on hand. We await patiently for your posts. Early Merry Christmas to you. Hopefully you find the LCD 3 overwhelming enough over the LCD 2 to stretch your budget to purchase one for an early Merry New Year too.
|
|
FauDrei
Been here a while!
Posts: 489
|
Post by FauDrei on Dec 23, 2011 0:36:51 GMT
Call me a cheap b*stard but I reckon LCD-2, while being good as they are, are massively overpriced already (as almost all other recent "TotL" cans). LCD-3? Have not had the pleasure, but for that amount of money, beside singing, it should also wear a mini-skirt and serve macchiato freddo. 'nuf ranting... Looking forward for their comparison.
|
|
|
Post by apmusson on Jan 5, 2012 13:23:34 GMT
I have the LCD2 and LCD3 at home now. I will post impressions and photos this weekend.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 6, 2012 4:18:03 GMT
I have the LCD2 and LCD3 at home now. I will post impressions and photos this weekend. Wow, we envy you!
|
|
|
Post by apmusson on Jan 9, 2012 10:54:09 GMT
P1000248 by adejomuss, on Flickr P1000242 by adejomuss, on Flickr P1000247 by adejomuss, on Flickr I will be updating this post with some comparisons and a brief write up of the LCD2s and LCD3s today. On Saturday, I was lucky enough to have access to both the Audeze LCD2s and LCD3 heaphones (kindly lent to my by Simon from Decent Audio). A colleague of mine from work (Steve) was also interested in the headphones so we had a little meetup to give them a good test. Before I start I will precede my comments with the following: - Both the LCD 2 & 3 were pretty new and had little time for burn-in (if you believe in it - which I do ;D )
- The headphone amplifiers used to test the headphones were two WAD HD3S. They are lovely amplifiers (Pinkfloyds eargasm experience posted elsewhere in this forum got me interested in it). We did not test on different amplifiers for this session but have tested the LCD2 with a Lehmann BCL in a previous test. So all our comments are based on use of this single amplifier.
Here are Steves comments: Test Track - "The Patient" by Tool. System: Sony SACD --> Benchmark DAC1 Pre --> WAD HD3s Bass LCD2 - good strong bass, one of the best performances from a headphone, although a little more depth and definition would not go amiss. LCD3 - amazing deep, taught bass, noticeably better than the LCD2. Midrange LCD2 - detailed, balanced and well integrated into the bass and treble. LCD3 - a little veiled and not as well integrated. Treble LCD2 - good detail but less prominent than many modern 'phones such as the T1s. LCD3 - more detailed, extended and better presence than the LCD2s. Soundstage - LCD2 - good soundstage, particularly with vocal placement. LCD3 - more three dimensional and wider. General LCD2 - smooth but reasonably detailed and they maintain the excitement of the track. LCD3 - more detailed and better in the frequency extremes, particularly good with instrumental rock sections. Despite the greater detail and better frequency extremes of the LCD3s, IMHO the LCD2s seemed better on this track. They sounded more musical due to the balanced midrange and better integration of the frequency ranges. With the LCD3s I found myself listening more to the component parts rather than the music as a whole. The usual caveats apply, particularly around equipment, cables etc. which may have been better suited to one 'phone over the other. Here are my comments: Test Track - Verdi / Libiamo Ne'Lieti CaliciSystem: Pioneer S904 --> Minimax Plus DAC --> WAD HD3S LCD3 Bass Rich / deep bass. Amazing bass dominates over other frequencies. Substantial bass creates a believable intro to this track. Midrange Male vocal good separation detailed but feels veiled, Female vocal defined, detailed. Lack of airiness. Dark sounding. Ensemble seems vocal muddy. Overall Midrange seems recessed. N.B. Much better with volume turned up. Male vocal has less veil (almost gone), Suggests that WAD struggles with the LCD3s or that burn in will improve the headphone substantially as the diaphragm loosens / settles? But still lacks airiness. Treble High end is sweet. Detail retreival is amazing. LCD2 Violins lack some detail, sounding like a continum rather than individual strings. Have to force myself to listen to the details as the music as a whole is richly engaging. Separation is not as good as the 3s. Airiness adds to the vocal presentation. Detail 8/10 Musicality 9.7/10. Ensemble still slightly vocal muddy (maybe its the recording). Track - Black Crowes / The Southern Harmon & Musical Companion / Bad Luck Blue Eyes GoodbyeLCD3 Weighty vocal intro ("B&B with a little weed"). Two electric guitar intro solid musical intro. Defined male vocal. Very nice. Nice cymbal crashes (lack a little sparkle). Bass superb. Slightly dark balance suits track. Female vocal suppressed at top end – no sparkle. Weighty presentation. Suits blues track well. Heavy sounding. LCD2 Vocal has less weight but sounds more natural. Midrange is back and in proportion to the the music. Guitars have more bite and are more visceral. Well defined. Male vocal sounds natural (its all about the midrange). Bass is better than most headphone Ive tried but doesn't extend as low (or anywhere near) as the 3s, but presentation is more natural. No one area stands out. Cymbals are not nearly as well defined as the 3s (much less detail and a little shrill), however, the 2s seem to portray a musical whole and succeed at this better. As always take others comments as "comments". I have tried to be open with my comments (I did not own either headphone - but have now bought a pair of LCD2s ... but not because of the price difference). Thanks Adrian
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 11, 2012 3:04:24 GMT
Good reviews from Adrian and Steve. Yeah, I agreed in general what you guys had writtten based on the 5 minutes hearing at the show. But I don't quite agree on the mid being veil for the LCD3. This can change if I have the HPs as long as you guys. Perhaps, the show guys are using different HA and the HPs are well run in obviously. Sorry, I had forgotten to ask what HAs they were using then. As I had hinted earlier, the LCD3 is not twice as good as the LCD2. Overall, the LCD3 is more detail than the LCD2 with more high extension. But if say given budget constraint, I will be happy with the LCD2 just as Adrain is. Also, overall, the HD800 is not in the same league as the LCD2 or 3. IMVHO, if based on what we can get from speakers, the LCD will be highend sound and HD800 very good sound. But I do like the HD800 as it also looks great and is very comfortable. But given one choice, I will take the LCD anytime. The LCD2, as Steve and Adrian had pointed out, does give a more integrated sound than the LCD3. But perhaps the LCD3 is giving a better high to lead us to this conclusion that the high is not as integrated into the mid and bass as good as the LCD2 more lacking in high. So, yes, LCD2 is more like a tube amp and the LCD3 is more like a solid state amp. For me, if I'm to get a LCD3, will drive it with a good high power tube amp. So who says amp matching is not critical at this high level of design? It's good to share here so that we can make a more informed choice of what to buy for our liking in terms of HPs and HAs to match them. Great! Btw, Adrian, are you using hirez SACDs and DVD-As, given that you guys are using players, to test the HPs? Hirez will be even better to differentiate the HPs.
|
|
|
Post by apmusson on Jan 11, 2012 10:26:03 GMT
Hi XTRProf,
I completely acknowledge and accept that ours was a limited test. I would have liked to have heard a pair of fully burned-in pair of LCD3s with a number of different amps. I can imagine (from the detail and dynamic range that I heard) that they could sound incredible..... but they were not convincing as a whole in my setup. I have read (from HeadFi reviews) that the LCD3s require careful matching with amp and source. The LCD2s also benefit from matching but seem to be more accomodating of different amps and sources (I have even driven them successfully from my portable Meier Stepdance amp).
We mostly tested the 2's and 3's with CDs as most of my music is in this format. However, we also used an SACD of Dark Side of the Moon and some HiRez (192/24) tracks from my PC too. My comments regarding general sound balance (great great bass, recessed mids, lack of airiness etc) and detail (impressive) were similar to the normal CDs.
Let me know when you get another chance to listen to the LCD3s - I think that they could turn out to be fantastic headphones - they just didn't work as a whole in my system.
Ade
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 12, 2012 2:03:24 GMT
I have read (from HeadFi reviews) that the LCD3s require careful matching with amp and source. The LCD2s also benefit from matching but seem to be more accomodating of different amps and sources (I have even driven them successfully from my portable Meier Stepdance amp). Yup, in fact, all HPs need good matching to "sing" for different genres of music. That's the reason why I always like to have an arsenal of different HAs of different genres in the collection. However, we also used an SACD of Dark Side of the Moon and some HiRez (192/24) tracks from my PC too. Ah, that SACD has loads of details at high and low levels, typical of PF music. My reference track that I always like to use is Time. That has eerie REAL clock sound when played back in a very good speaker system. I never forget that ever since I heard it thru an Advent speaker system in a showroom when I was much younger. So that track is always used to test how real the clock is. So if anything that can fool me into believing that it's realer clocks, that anything will be judged as a better equipment. Let me know when you get another chance to listen to the LCD3s - I think that they could turn out to be fantastic headphones - they just didn't work as a whole in my system. Sure but at about USD 2000, that will be a rare find amongst friends that will acquire unless I buy one. Hmm, weekend coming. I need to go to the lottery counter.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 12, 2012 2:04:51 GMT
Prof Frans,
If you are seeing this, what's the best HA specs to drive this LCD thingy? LCD 2 and 3. Yeah, the objective side of the moon and not the subjective. Thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 6:29:48 GMT
That depends on how LOUD you want it to go.
At full power (133dB) you will need an amp that can put out 15W (27Vrms with 0 Ohm output) what qualifies in this case is a 100W/8 Ohm or 200W/4Ohm speaker amp. Needs to be a very low noise speaker amp as at 1mW it already produces 93dB ! If you 'only' need 120dB max (painfully loud !) 0.5W is enough (5Vrms) from a low Ohmic HP amp. I have driven the LCD2(rev1) succesfully from a 200mW (CHAmp) and was loud enough for me.
My OPA-88 amp would be able to feed it 2.5W (126dB). a Panda/AK-A without output resistors would drive it to 2W.
Since the impedance is an almost flat line it doesn't react to different impedance amps (tried it with AB switch and 2 different amps). an amp with 120 Ohm output resistance needs to be able to deliver 17Vrms (open voltage) to reach the same SPL as a low Ohmic amp will reach at 5Vrms (500mW)
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 12, 2012 8:09:31 GMT
Thanks Frans. So the Panda (Mosfet) / AK-A (Transistor) will be enough to drive the LCD nuts and optimally, eh?
Let's talk about hybrid. What about Sunrise (Tube/Mosfet) or it's later version? Tube like the WAD as used by Adrian? Optimal too technically for those amps?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 8:32:12 GMT
Sunrise about 0.3W (in 10 Ohm setting) high voltage version about 0.6W (in low Ohm setting) but is more meant for high Ohmic headphones. opamp output version around 2.5 to 3W (in 0 Ohm setting) = OPA-88 amp.
WAD depends on configuration, should be able to give around 0.7W (in 50-125 Ohm setting) and perhaps slightly less is in 16-50 Ohm setting (an estimation)
Wouldn't drive them with a C'moy when you want it to be dynamic/play above low listening levels.
|
|
XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
|
Post by XTRProf on Jan 12, 2012 9:04:15 GMT
So can say: 1) Panda (moded) (Mosfet) 2) AK-A (Transistor) 3) Sunrise (high voltage) (Tube/Mosfet) 4) OPA-88 (latest Sunrise) (Op Amp) 5) WAD (Tube) all pass OPTIMAL technically at Class A for LCD? Correct if inaccurate. PS: OPTIMAL here means loud enough (like in speaker listening) when wanted to and with much reserve for the dynamics roar without going into a whimp or clipping when called upon.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 9:33:26 GMT
Chong Panda is a transistor amplifier with FETs at the input only. The TIP41 and TIP42 output devices have 10 ohm emitter resistors compared with 2.5 ohm and 2SA1930 and 2SC5171 in the Class A HA/preamp. Alex
|
|