Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Aug 9, 2007 0:41:10 GMT
Has anyone heard some of those uber expensive high end headphone amps? I'm thinking of the four figure variety they seem to love Stateside (probably because they are the only lucky sods who can afford them :-) ).
My question is just how much better are they than the likes of X-Cans etc?
Are they truly worth aspiring to or is it better to save the pennies & buy some records?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2007 3:42:23 GMT
Nigel What is the point of aspiring to them, if you can't afford the new recordings to play through them ? Rely on the reviews of people who don't need advertising revenue to survive, or the odd trusted magazine reviewer . Search out online comments about the equipment concerned too, and if there are sufficient responses, see what the overwhelming view is. SandyK P.S. Think Pink !
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Post by merton on Aug 9, 2007 6:56:16 GMT
if it were me i'd stick with either a graham slee or a mapletree amp... but that's just me. i've heard that they're both warm and both top notch in quality... so... i think they're it. just depends on if you want tubes or solid state.. and the maple tree may work better with grado... i really would like some 650s and a slee... aslong as the 650's are comfortable. i think i'll end up a speaker man someday... with the mooonay.... in my dreams....
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Aug 9, 2007 12:24:13 GMT
SandyK,
Like most people, I'm always looking out for something better. How many of us are ever satisfied?
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Aug 9, 2007 17:36:18 GMT
Before I picked up my earmax amp recently I looked at buying a Zana Deux headphone amp by Eddie Current- designed by a chap called Craig Uthus formerly of moth audio in the states. It looked fantastic and got a good review on 6moons and cost was about a grand. Trouble was they were made to order and I had no way of auditioning it! As it turns out my earmax doesn't drive grados very well..... damn!
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Post by sometrolls2 on Aug 23, 2007 18:12:21 GMT
I doubt that they offer good bang for your buck, if the difference is £500/$1000+ then you can buy a lot of a other upgrades with that, unless everything else has reached a similar point where any upgrades will be that expensive.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 5, 2007 14:17:07 GMT
The esteemed members of this Grotto should all club in together & buy some high end amp.
For instance, if ten members contributed £100 we could buy a £1000 amp, each have the amp for a month & then sell it on at the end of the period & share the return money.
Better still, if twenty people contributed £50 & each contributer had the amp for two weeks. In this case, even if we only received an unlikely paltry 50% return in re-sale value, you would individually only be £25 down. At least then you could have lived with a high end amp & know if it was something worth aspiring, or whether you should stick with the X-Cans/Solo/Heed etc.
I suppose we could try this on a lesser scale as well, for instance ten members buy a Green Solo etc.
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 5, 2007 21:30:56 GMT
The esteemed members of this Grotto should all club in together & buy some high end amp. For instance, if ten members contributed £100 we could buy a £1000 amp, each have the amp for a month & then sell it on at the end of the period & share the return money. Better still, if twenty people contributed £50 & each contributer had the amp for two weeks. In this case, even if we only received an unlikely paltry 50% return in re-sale value, you would individually only be £25 down. At least then you could have lived with a high end amp & know if it was something worth aspiring, or whether you should stick with the X-Cans/Solo/Heed etc. I suppose we could try this on a lesser scale as well, for instance ten members buy a Green Solo etc. Nigel, that's a great idea. Count me in! Miguel, shame you didn't listen to the Zana, you could have told me what it sounded like, it looked great. I had the money and was insane enough to buy one but a thousand quid ($1800) for something I couldn't have listened to without buying was just a bit much! You may have thought it wasn't that great in any case, and not have been tempted after all..........
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 5, 2007 21:39:27 GMT
If that Zana Deux sounds as good as it looks............. What a beauty.
Damn right you should have heard it Miguel.
I see to purchase the amp it's £500 deposit before it gets constructed.
There you go insanitybeard! We have £200 towards a Zana Deux. Another eight members needed.
Seriously though, it could be done. I expect those Zana Deux's hold their price pretty well on the one previous owner market. We may even make a profit after Mike's modded the amp!
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 5, 2007 21:47:41 GMT
Assuming money was no object is the Zana Deux regarded as the ultimate high end headphone amp? Or is there something better? What about the top Headroom amp? If I remember that was a couple of grand to buy.
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 5, 2007 21:49:19 GMT
Roll up! Roll up! Any more interested parties? A new phase in Rockgrotto........ the headphone amp share and swap club! Well Nigel, the Yoshino ear retails at two and a half grand........... put that one on the list as well!
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 5, 2007 22:05:46 GMT
Yes, isn't that made in the UK? I guess some Hi-Fi dealer must stock that somewhere then.
"Hi, I'd like to listen to the Ear headphone amp."
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 5, 2007 22:15:01 GMT
Here's my list in order of preference (ie, no 1 is the one I want to hear first):
1)Eddie Current Zana Deux 2) Yoshino Ear 3)Mapletree 4)Fully specced Headroom amp
Sure there's a few to add but I can't think of them now! ;D
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 6, 2007 7:18:20 GMT
Most definitely !!!
I just cottoned on, Zana Deux - Xanadu. doh !!
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 6, 2007 9:50:59 GMT
Miguel, you've gotta listen to it! And if it does sound fantastic I'm willing to contribute to a little "consortium" to buy one and us all share the experience!
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Post by harj on Sept 6, 2007 15:33:07 GMT
i have only two amps and my wife wants a divorce. i would love to listen to a E.A.R hp4. Have you guys read the solo vs the Aural Audition review on enjoythemusic.com this was taken quote was taken from there;
"I could be very happy with either of these superb headphone amplifiers. On balance I prefer the Audition, but it's a win on points, not a knockout. It may not be fair to match a welterweight and a heavyweight in the same ring. Taken pound for pound or dollar for dollar, the Solo comes out ahead" .
This amp does cost $2,195 and weighs 17 lbs, so the solo does well to keep up, it even is better in some places. Just before i go i want to say thanks to mrarroyo and insanitybeard for all the time and advice. If you guys where here would have got you pint.
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 6, 2007 16:02:02 GMT
Harj, no problems chap, if you fancy a listen to the earmax sometime let me know. Miguel, if you love the sound but can't justify the cost then there are already at least two members prepared to split the cost so we can sample the valve goodness of the Zana! I think it's a great idea.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 6, 2007 16:09:35 GMT
Miguel,
I bet if you add up your expenditure on all your headphone amps, you could of quite easily purchased a Zana.
Cheers,
Nigel
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 6, 2007 20:56:11 GMT
What the hell is "high end" supposed to mean anyway?.... High price? High quality sound? What a load of bollocks and one of those labels I detest! much the same as "state of the art" it's meaningless apart from "this will cost you a lot".
Does the higher price equate to better performance? Not necessarily..... does the headphone amp the size of a fckin' microwave oven mean it will sound better? Not necessarily.
I have heard the Sennheiser Orpheus at a Hi-Fi show and had the much acclaimed Kevin Gilmore Dynahi in my possession for a short time (it belonged to fellow member Captain) to say I was underwhelmed by both would be the understatement of the century. A huge thing weighing a ton yet my Chiarra (amp at the time) did much the same job. Sure these monsters look good but the law of diminishing returns kick in big time when you get past a certain level of performance and a £5,000 headphone amp will not sound £4,500 better than a £500 one.
In fact, it's all down to the design.... a well designed headphone amp costing £50 could absolutely trounce a poorly designed headphone amp costing £5,000.... there's a lot of snobbery in Hi-Fi and a "look at what I've got" mentality, these people think they are bloody where it's at if they're surrounded by a cornucopia of huge amps, ridiculously priced interconnects, mains leads the size of a boa constrictor..... pure penis extensions IMO and even more so when it comes to headphone amps...... they're headphones folks, not loudspeakers, you don't need a bloomin' thing resembling a fridge giving off the heat of a kiln to drive them.
I think people must think that these "high end" headphone amps will do something miraculous to the sound..... think again! They're made because there is a market for them not because they sound the best. This is not the same as buying a very expensive car where you're almost guaranteed more refinement, more comfort and more speed.
I quote the quote harj quoted from the enjoythemusic review:
"I could be very happy with either of these superb headphone amplifiers. On balance I prefer the Audition, but it's a win on points, not a knockout. It may not be fair to match a welterweight and a heavyweight in the same ring. Taken pound for pound or dollar for dollar, the Solo comes out ahead"
erm...... a "heavyweight and a welterweight"?? So size matters does it? BIG means it should automatically sound good? More expensive means it should sound better? What a load of misinformed bullshit! These are headphone amps not friggin' boxers punching it out in a boxing ring. Whatever happened to the concept that the simpler an amp was the better it sounded? Why is it all of a sudden that every man and his dog thinks that BIG equates to better? I'll say it again, we are talking headphone amps here not 1kW power amps.
It's all hype fuelled by the marketing man having people believe that they have to throw large wads of money in to audio to reach a certain "level" of enjoyment and it's utter lies driven by greed and force fed to the gullible flocks of lambs to the slaughter. Nobody will admit to being stung though! They will buy these bloody gargantuan boxes and to justify their purchase will write screeds of bullshit on forums to convince themselves and others that the £3,000 they spent on this headphone amp weighing 3 stone sounds "oooooh so much more high end" than the £500 amp it replaced.
You would be shocked by some of the behind the scenes stuff I've picked up over the years with one well known cable manufacturer actually "laughing" when he explained that all his low to mid price "range" of interconnects were all "doctored" with capacitance and inductance and his "high end" interconnect was simply pure copper. They had actually spent more time in R&D factoring in crap into the low to mid priced cables to make their seemingly "high end" top of the range cable sound better!
It happens and is the main reason I don't buy into any of the crap that's bandied about regarding "high end gear" It is there to serve a market and you may find that a product produced by one company at a reasonable price may well trounce the "high end" product made by a company who produce an entire range from cheap to expensive. The guy driving the flash car, keeping up with the neighbours, analysing his room full of expensive aluminium boxes thinks he's on the path to "audio Nirvana"..... he's not.
It's your guy across the road in his garden shed listening to some cheap arse home made equipment and enjoying the sound that is in true audio nirvana.
The box shifters will always have you believe you are on a "path" to audio Nirvana and will tell you what "steps" or "stages" you should take to get there (and it usually involves paying them money on a regular basis for another hunk of aluminium crap) when all you really have to do is sit back and relax and let the music take control of you and stop trying to control the music with money.
The only thing that needs to be conditioned is yourself.. forget the mains, forget the interconnects..... get yourself into the mood to receive the music and to become at one with it, that really is the hardest part. There is the electronic "receiver" but remember that you yourself are also a receiver.... if you are not tuned in then the signal is going to be distorted whatever amount of money you throw at it.
Go into a dark room, lay down on the floor, sip some whisky (or whatever) , put on your favourite track, close your eyes, get into that track, let yourself go, allow yourself to be engulfed by the music, become one with the music.......... now that is "high end" and what did it cost you?
I have found through lots of trial and error that those "goose pimple moments" have got nothing to do with the equipment that is producing the sound they only happen when you are conditioned to receive.... you really have to be in the zone. The bad news is that it's not always possible to "zone in" on demand and true hairs on the back of the neck moments are few and far between..... it is possible to get a lot closer to the music though but it's all down to you and not the equipment...... you have to be in the mood to receive with only one thing on your mind..... the "music".
Anyways, I'm going off topic here..... off to zone in to some Floyd.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2007 21:44:38 GMT
Bloody good advice !
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Sol
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Post by Sol on Sept 6, 2007 22:08:50 GMT
Beat me to it .... however! HiFi addiction is as much to do with toys purchase as it is the listening pleasure derived. We've often talked about enjoying the music - but don't forget there's a different music pleasure derived from examine the sound, auditioning equipment, comparing. As such, there will always be those who will buy into the "expense" to listen to the next amp ... so clubbing together, and sharing is a wonderful way to examine. As Mike says, don't expect the kit to sound necessarily better. One good thing about clubbing together - the clubbers will be less inclined to smear the truth with the flavours formed by justification! I say go for it ... if that's what floats your boat.
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Post by harj on Sept 6, 2007 22:49:45 GMT
i feel really bad for buying some the tweaks i got for my cdp, one of them was a cd mat which sits on top of audio cd when in player. this in return is meant to improve clarity. I spent £120 on it and i cant really tell the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2007 22:59:07 GMT
Sol Another good thing about clubbing together, is that you will have more of the folding stuff left to make that bike duck in and out of traffic even quicker ! SandyK
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Sept 6, 2007 23:23:53 GMT
Mike makes some very valid points. I have been guilty of thinking "the more money I chuck at this the better the sound I will get". This is why I now have a set of Grado GS thousands. Who knows, if I had bought the SR325s I could have saved myself nigh on 500 quid and noticed no loss in sound quality compared to the GSthous (in my ears' opinion anyway).
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 7, 2007 8:48:45 GMT
The RS-2 is the sweet spot in the lineup. What do these retail at in the states mate? About 500 pounds UK
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