Hooking up stereo subwoofers........
Sept 19, 2013 19:48:04 GMT
Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 19, 2013 19:48:04 GMT
The conventional theory is that bass is non directional so "mono" combined channels into a sub is deemed perfectly acceptable.
I disagree, let's assume, for arguments sake that a low organ note occurs in the right channel and a low bass guitar note in the left channel.... that seperation is lost through this "one size fits all bass is non directional crap.
I have tested one subwoofer (with both channels going into it) against two seperate subwoofers (one per channel) and there is no comparison, the seperate sub per channel is the only way to go if you want to preserve the soundstage and correct bass placement (where more than one bass instrument is playing in different channels).... the "bass is non directional" thing just doesn't make sense...... the main speakers will be presenting the left channel organ note and the right channel presenting the bass guitar note...... the sub will be providing the lower end of both instruments in MONO!
I didn't hook my subs up in the conventional way either........ I have bi-wired my main speakers with the "A" output of my amp feeding the bass / mid connection on the speakers and the "B" output of the amp feeding the treble unit...... I switch to A+B on the amp and this gives me, pretty much, true biwiring.
The conventional way of wiring a subwoofer is either low level or high level..... as I wanted a dedicated "woofer" per channel the low level setting was out as that simply combines both channels into the woofer (into mono) and daisy chaining another woofer will only give you two woofers BOTH operating in mono.
I defied convention on the high level connection which generally recommends connecting the sub to the amp's speaker outputs and then connecting your main speakers via the sub's high level outputs..... fair enough, but HOW (using that configuration) could I have kept my bi-wired setup to the main speakers? Not possible.
What I ended up doing was leaving my main speakers bi-wired (as described above) and taking the "Feed" for the subwoofer from the "A" terminal on the back of the main speakers into the "Hi Level" speaker input on the back of the sub. Now, there are two sets of hi-level inputs on the back of a sub..... one is for the right channel, the other is for the left channel...... all I did was jumper over both + and - so the sub assumes it's getting two signals (pretty cunning eh?) there is nothing for it to "convert" into Mono as it's a Mono signal it's already receiving so whatever happens in the bass department, on the left channel goes into the sub and whatever is going on in the right channel goes into the sub.
I can explain all of this with pictures and diagrams if anybody is interested but it, essentially, means that the left channel subwoofer is now integrated with the left channel main speaker (I hate the "satellite" word!) and anything "low octave" that is happening in the left channel will be extended by that dedicated strapped on sub and the same goes for the right channel..... works an absolute treat!
The "bass is non directional" shite is fine if you are listening to everyday "pap" music but when it becomes a bit more complex, let's say a 100 piece orchestra or a high quality techno recording (yello, Roger Waters, Shpongle etc.) then this "bass in non directional" argument flies right out the window.
Let's make it even MORE simple..... I have a recording where the bass shifts from left to right and back to left again...... I add a subwoofer (in conventional mode)..... the bass is still shifting from left to right and back again but the SUB (lower octaves) are being pumped out in Mono by the subwoofer? And that is supposed to be unnoticeable as bass is "non directional"??!! What a crock of crap! you can still hear the left / right transitions with lower extension but with dedicated "sub per channel" setup it's "oh so much more" palpable.
I haven't invented anything new here but the info about setting up subwoofers on the net (that I have come across) is absolutely WRONG...... it's probably "acceptable" if you want to hear "grunt" of a helicopter smashing into the side of a building but for dedicated "stereo" listening a one subwoofer "does all" is a fekkin' myth!
Listened to Roger Waters "amused to death" with the two woofers connected low level from the dedicated "sub out" connection on the amp and then tried the above method, where I could retain my bi-wiring and I nearly shit my pants when the "ferrari" roared accross the soundstage..... WHOAH! not a subtle "improvement" a MAMA HONKER, MAJOR improvement..... the dog "barking" went from about 3 feet beyond the speakers to the farm next door (which is about 300 yards away!!)..... the horse and sleigh (or whatever it is) just "imaged" way beyond the room and over to the forest across the road , no shit Sherlock!
On "amused to death", where he sings "is absoluite zero cold enough?" the low octaves kicked in and gave me my first hairgasm for about 10 years....... you know what I mean, that ONE moment where the hairs on the back of your neck LITERALLY stand erect and your only thought is WOOOOOWWW!
It's actually a bit of a mish mash of a system, as I had given up on "dedicated listening room" loudspeaker based systems quite a few years ago but I'm back into it BIG style...... I'm going to keep what I have, only a fool wastes money chopping and changing after having a "hair on the back of the neck / hairgasm" moment" but I am going to spend a few quid on room damping materials...... I've got a metal saxaphone wall hanging that rattles, like a junkie doing cold turkey, as soon as its "rattling frequency button" has been pressed...... The floor is wood, need some soft stuff that requires hoovering in places...... fekking glass city too, great with the curtains closed BUT ear bleedingly coarse if listening with glass in the path.... a few tweaks to the room and I'll be back in heaven!
Life is too short to fart about wearing headphones..... you just CANNOT beat the BUZZ of a good loudspeaker based system....... Unfortunately, quite a lot of people are "forced" into headphone listening due to their environment, budget, nagging women etc. but I can truly confess I am WAY back into the loudspeaker thang and I don't care if the sheep don't enjoy my taste in music
There is so little info (that you need) to read on the net regarding subwoofers and so MUCH that gives so much misinformed advice. I will be happy to go into more depth should anybody be interested.
Mike.
I disagree, let's assume, for arguments sake that a low organ note occurs in the right channel and a low bass guitar note in the left channel.... that seperation is lost through this "one size fits all bass is non directional crap.
I have tested one subwoofer (with both channels going into it) against two seperate subwoofers (one per channel) and there is no comparison, the seperate sub per channel is the only way to go if you want to preserve the soundstage and correct bass placement (where more than one bass instrument is playing in different channels).... the "bass is non directional" thing just doesn't make sense...... the main speakers will be presenting the left channel organ note and the right channel presenting the bass guitar note...... the sub will be providing the lower end of both instruments in MONO!
I didn't hook my subs up in the conventional way either........ I have bi-wired my main speakers with the "A" output of my amp feeding the bass / mid connection on the speakers and the "B" output of the amp feeding the treble unit...... I switch to A+B on the amp and this gives me, pretty much, true biwiring.
The conventional way of wiring a subwoofer is either low level or high level..... as I wanted a dedicated "woofer" per channel the low level setting was out as that simply combines both channels into the woofer (into mono) and daisy chaining another woofer will only give you two woofers BOTH operating in mono.
I defied convention on the high level connection which generally recommends connecting the sub to the amp's speaker outputs and then connecting your main speakers via the sub's high level outputs..... fair enough, but HOW (using that configuration) could I have kept my bi-wired setup to the main speakers? Not possible.
What I ended up doing was leaving my main speakers bi-wired (as described above) and taking the "Feed" for the subwoofer from the "A" terminal on the back of the main speakers into the "Hi Level" speaker input on the back of the sub. Now, there are two sets of hi-level inputs on the back of a sub..... one is for the right channel, the other is for the left channel...... all I did was jumper over both + and - so the sub assumes it's getting two signals (pretty cunning eh?) there is nothing for it to "convert" into Mono as it's a Mono signal it's already receiving so whatever happens in the bass department, on the left channel goes into the sub and whatever is going on in the right channel goes into the sub.
I can explain all of this with pictures and diagrams if anybody is interested but it, essentially, means that the left channel subwoofer is now integrated with the left channel main speaker (I hate the "satellite" word!) and anything "low octave" that is happening in the left channel will be extended by that dedicated strapped on sub and the same goes for the right channel..... works an absolute treat!
The "bass is non directional" shite is fine if you are listening to everyday "pap" music but when it becomes a bit more complex, let's say a 100 piece orchestra or a high quality techno recording (yello, Roger Waters, Shpongle etc.) then this "bass in non directional" argument flies right out the window.
Let's make it even MORE simple..... I have a recording where the bass shifts from left to right and back to left again...... I add a subwoofer (in conventional mode)..... the bass is still shifting from left to right and back again but the SUB (lower octaves) are being pumped out in Mono by the subwoofer? And that is supposed to be unnoticeable as bass is "non directional"??!! What a crock of crap! you can still hear the left / right transitions with lower extension but with dedicated "sub per channel" setup it's "oh so much more" palpable.
I haven't invented anything new here but the info about setting up subwoofers on the net (that I have come across) is absolutely WRONG...... it's probably "acceptable" if you want to hear "grunt" of a helicopter smashing into the side of a building but for dedicated "stereo" listening a one subwoofer "does all" is a fekkin' myth!
Listened to Roger Waters "amused to death" with the two woofers connected low level from the dedicated "sub out" connection on the amp and then tried the above method, where I could retain my bi-wiring and I nearly shit my pants when the "ferrari" roared accross the soundstage..... WHOAH! not a subtle "improvement" a MAMA HONKER, MAJOR improvement..... the dog "barking" went from about 3 feet beyond the speakers to the farm next door (which is about 300 yards away!!)..... the horse and sleigh (or whatever it is) just "imaged" way beyond the room and over to the forest across the road , no shit Sherlock!
On "amused to death", where he sings "is absoluite zero cold enough?" the low octaves kicked in and gave me my first hairgasm for about 10 years....... you know what I mean, that ONE moment where the hairs on the back of your neck LITERALLY stand erect and your only thought is WOOOOOWWW!
It's actually a bit of a mish mash of a system, as I had given up on "dedicated listening room" loudspeaker based systems quite a few years ago but I'm back into it BIG style...... I'm going to keep what I have, only a fool wastes money chopping and changing after having a "hair on the back of the neck / hairgasm" moment" but I am going to spend a few quid on room damping materials...... I've got a metal saxaphone wall hanging that rattles, like a junkie doing cold turkey, as soon as its "rattling frequency button" has been pressed...... The floor is wood, need some soft stuff that requires hoovering in places...... fekking glass city too, great with the curtains closed BUT ear bleedingly coarse if listening with glass in the path.... a few tweaks to the room and I'll be back in heaven!
Life is too short to fart about wearing headphones..... you just CANNOT beat the BUZZ of a good loudspeaker based system....... Unfortunately, quite a lot of people are "forced" into headphone listening due to their environment, budget, nagging women etc. but I can truly confess I am WAY back into the loudspeaker thang and I don't care if the sheep don't enjoy my taste in music
There is so little info (that you need) to read on the net regarding subwoofers and so MUCH that gives so much misinformed advice. I will be happy to go into more depth should anybody be interested.
Mike.