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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 6:02:56 GMT
ppastudio.blogspot.com.au/I remember this guy coming in for a lot of sarcastic comments in DIYAudio about his SATA cables. He offered to send me one for evaluation, but I declined the offer ,as no matter what I reported back in DIYAudio, the resident know-it-alls would have made life miserable . Alex
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 10:50:19 GMT
Interesting.....
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 12:08:15 GMT
He also hears this "impossible" stuff too ! Yes, the examples he posted at the end , do sound different, with CUE 2 sounding better, but unless something went wrong with the DLs, the checksums aren't the same though.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 14:25:50 GMT
Hi Alex, certainly gives you food for thought, if I had a little more get up and go and a lot more cash to splash I'd be re-jigging my PC audio along your PSU lines. As it's a workhorse for all things computing including audio there will always be compromises to make. I must, soon, get to grips with the fan noise, main case fan is as old as the case so it's to go pronto, thereafter who knows what I'll do next to quieten it down. I've always had a hankering to use a liquid coolant for the CPU with the heat exchanger up in the loft..............getting a bit long in the tooth for climbing and crawling though. As to Paul Pang's files...............yes Cue2 is distinctly clearer to my ears but I'd always be sceptical where money is in the equation. Regards, Alan
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 21:30:35 GMT
Hi Alan My PC is also needed to be a general purpose PC. My new W/64 PC is nothing special with a cheap case , inexpensive motherboard, i7 CPU and 8GB of RAM and a 550W new PSU. However, with just a few pieces of 3M 2552 tape on the side panels, after my son assembled it using the existing LG BR writer with it's JLH, and a couple of HDDs, it is clearly better for audio than the previous old core duo with Win 7. The fan speeds are slower due to larger size, and it is much quieter too. I wonder how much of the improvement is due to a brand new PSU with it's brand new main electrolytic capacitor ? Some claim that the newer less thirsty, but faster processors, combined with a great deal more faster RAM are the reason.Others claim that Windows 8 is better optimised for Audio.
Kind Regards Alex
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Post by kp93300 on May 22, 2013 2:19:31 GMT
Has anyone any personnel experience with different length sata cables and sound changes ? Is a shorter cable better ? Does the gauge of the cable of importance ? I tried 2 different sata cables and I am not sure whether I am imaging things because one cable sounds brighter! May be self suggestion! kp93300
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 3:10:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 13:07:40 GMT
I have certainly heard the benefit of shorter and better constructed USB cable against a basic one. I was not convinced in a recent trial of an expensive brand cable against the a "normal" good one, both of equal shortest usable length. Having said that my digital side of things is not up there with a best, more like medium standard.
I see no reason why the same should not be true for SATA cables, one to try and see/hear. I also have not tried Paul's or even my own DIY SATA.
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Post by kp93300 on May 23, 2013 1:45:00 GMT
What is the optimum gauge of the sata cable wire? My 2 sata cables show a difference of about 5 cm and use 26 gauge and 30 gauge wires. unable to find a standard for sata cable construction. Is solid core or stranded more suited for the task?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 2:24:31 GMT
What is the optimum gauge of the sata cable wire? My 2 sata cables show a difference of about 5 cm and use 26 gauge and 30 gauge wires. unable to find a standard for sata cable construction. Is solid core or stranded more suited for the task? Perhaps a good question to ask in the jPlay forum ? I have sent Marcin from jPlay an email to see if he can provide any advance details of Paul's cables. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 5:40:50 GMT
I just received the attached reply from Marcin, who is the co-developer of the highly regarded jPlay software for Windows. Alex
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 11:30:28 GMT
What this suggests to me, is that it may be worthwhile trying the shortest available length, genuine SATA 3 cable from a reputable manufacturer that will do the job, especially with Optical devices and SSD. Most SATA cables appear to use 26AWG copper. Silver plated copper MAY be better ? A SATA 3 cable is designed to work at 6GB/s , although normal types will normally do so too. That doesn't mean though that the wider bandwidth SATA 3 types won't be better for Audio due to more clearly defined data transitions. i.e. the possibility of reduced Jitter. Personally, I would always prefer wider bandwidth cables for audio and video, whether Analogue or Digital. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 3:09:59 GMT
This morning I fitted a SATA3 cable from the SATA3 port that I was using (no other spare) to my LG BR writer this morning. Interestingly, this one is 2 separate screened cables with 2 wires inside each, with a space between them,unlike normal SATA that appear to be just 7 separate wires in a sheath. The one I bought is about half the length of the original red generic SATA cable too. I just re-ripped Jheena Lodwick track “Sumiyaki Coffee”and it is clearly better, as if there is lower noise. I will now be ordering another one for my C drive. Alex . www.ebay.com.au/itm/SATA-3-III-3-0-DATA-HDD-SSD-Cable-25CM-10-UV-Blue-W-Latch-/110984713671?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:AU:3160
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 3:26:01 GMT
Are the checksums the same?
Imagine how good the $300 SATA cable would be!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 3:40:42 GMT
Are the checksums the same? Imagine how good the $300 SATA cable would be! Greg I haven't looked at the data side. Why should it be any different unless the original SATA cable was faulty? Just because a common generic SATA cable will USUALLY work O.K. with normal programs at 6GB/s doesn't mean it's ideal, neither are generic SATA cable guaranteed to work at 6GB/s although they usually do. If I had to hazard a guess as to why the new cable sounded better, I would suggest that it was due to proper screening of the conductors, and perhaps the wider bandwidth of the SATA 3 cable resulting in more "text book" shaped data. As for buying a $300 SATA cable, you've got to be joking ! This one cost me just under $8 including delivery from Nth. Qld. Not too much to risk if it didn't make any difference whatsoever. If nothing else it gives an improved layout and slightly better air flow in the PC. Regards Alex .
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Post by pagan on Jun 2, 2013 8:58:26 GMT
That's EURO 300.00 or just over AUS $400.00 For some reason, I'm skeptical on this cable.
As for Sata3 cables... Must be noise transferred somehow, because jitter would be irrelevant in this area..
Allan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 9:38:49 GMT
[
Allan Well this SATA 3 cable does use 2 separate screened cables, as well as being half the length. Because of the original SATA cable length, the cable was looped right over the M/B as well, whereas this new cable goes straight down, and is just long enough to reach.
Regards Alex
P.S. I have now ordered another one for my C drive, which currently also has a much longer length than needed. < $8 delivered isn't a big deal if it doesn't result in further improvements. vhfman (Dave) is on the lookout now for SATA 3 cables too.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Jun 3, 2013 0:54:55 GMT
Alex Another test you could do with the generic cable is to lay it flat against the case somewhere in it's run...
The theory for this, is if the cable is picking up noise from the pc somewhere, then the case is metal and should be earthed too...
Allan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 1:18:30 GMT
Alex Another test you could do with the generic cable is to lay it flat against the case somewhere in it's run... The theory for this, is if the cable is picking up noise from the pc somewhere, then the case is metal and should be earthed too... Allan Hi Allan That's not really practical in this case,. I will send a photo to your home email so you can see how it was after the new PC was commissioned . BTW, a member has already heard differences via a new UL. Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2013 11:11:26 GMT
Alex recently sent me two music files of the same ripped track. One with the standard sata cable and the other using the sata3 cable. At first I was struggling to hear the difference on my work rig, I even ended up choosing the wrong track in preference for the wrong reason. I then remembered that knobby here had forgotten to use his JLH USB power injector, neither for unpacking nor playback Tried again with the injector on duty. Both tracks were suddenly massively better, why am I surprised, I already know this! Plonker... Anyhoosen, the two tracks were still very close, I certainly couldn't say one had more bass or more detail etc. I set the two tracks on repeat, left it while and came back later without knowing which one was playing on my return, the PC screen remaining in standby. Skip, skip, skip....OK one track was standing out, it just had a bit more feel, a snadge more insight into the mood of the track. I switched on the PC screen to see which one I had chosen, the sata3! I repeated the process twice more and gained the same result. So two things shown here; 1) the sata3 seems to be contributing just that little bit more to improved ripping, or looked at another way, stopping more interference from causing problems on the rip. 2) the cumulative effect of small improvements is showing here, i.e. the use of sata3 + USB lead with no 5v or gnd + power injected 5v supply. One without the other can be very tough to hear. So we are basically working our way through the digital supply chain, cutting out as much external negative effect as we can. One day I hope we'll find a way to factually explain and measure this, so that the disbelievers can have it in black and white objectiveness. Toma!
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Post by eltech on Jun 4, 2013 11:12:53 GMT
I read the DIYaudio thread last year. It is quite apparent that some people can hear differences and others can not. Frankly if I couldn't hear a difference I'd just shut up about it, for fear of outing myself as a person with a bad system or bad hearing. Others seem to take pride in their "cant hear a difference" system, and then ridicule those who can.
When its just a simple observation with nothing for sale or a "try it yourself and see" proposal there is no need to ridicule or argue with a person. Just sit back with your "hear it all" system and "know it all" attitude and be happy with ones own superiority in all respects.
I can usually hear a difference with shorter USB cables, so I will try the SATA 3 cable Alex has drawn my attention to. I look forward to it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 1:59:34 GMT
This morning I replaced the existing generic SATA lead to my "C" drive with a cheap 25CM SATA 3 lead, which is half the length of the previous generic SATA cable. I was unable to notice any difference with the new rip from the DVD-A of Diana Krall-Temptation" in 24/96, but a fresh rip of "Sumiyaki Coffee" was unmistakably better sounding than the recent rip made using just the SATA 3 cable for the internal LG BR writer. TBH, I was NOT expecting to hear a further improvement.
Regards Alex
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