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Post by kp93300 on Dec 15, 2012 4:12:42 GMT
I am replacing a laptop hard disc and would like to hear from otherś experience with different types of hard disc from the perspective of sound differences.
There are optical hard disc ( laptop and desktop versions ) and solid state hard disc.
These are my questions :
1) Desktop hard disc use 12 V and 5 V vs laptop hard disk that use 5 V only. Can we expect better sound from desktop hard disk ?
2) Does the spinning rate of the disk and the cache size matters with audio production?
3) Has any one heard any difference between solid state and optical drives ?
thanks for the feedback and discussion
kp93300
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 15, 2012 5:01:04 GMT
Hi there,
HDD or SS ones doesn't matter as music files are played from RAM. So get more RAM to load music there and play.
According to gamers there is not much difference in response between DDR2 and DDR3. As gaming speed requirement is much more intensive than audio apps, buy as much DDR3 RAM you can load into the PC will do.
Hopes this helps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 5:38:35 GMT
They can still sound a little different even when the music is played from RAM. The jury is out on which sounds best, as it appears to come down to the power supply and the way they are implemented. SSD draws far less power, so it may cause less interaction with the rest of the system. Several users of The Phasure NOS DAC and XXHE playback software have also reported differences between storage locations despite being played from System RAM.
I presume that you mean SSD and HDD ? I haven't used SSD, but there can be a marked improvement in SQ from a USB memory stick using an external Linear PSU over the same files stored on HDD. I would expect that the differences between solid state storage and HDD would be minimal if they were both fed by a far better power supply.There are numerous reports in Computer Audiophile forum about better SQ with SSD.Older SSDs using a SuperCap were reported to be a little noisy though. This type has been superseded. Alex
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Dec 15, 2012 7:22:10 GMT
For a Laptop, depending on how old it is,(speed) I would use a SSD as the speed is so much better than a spinning HDD, and the SSD prices have reduced a lot. Use a separate spinning HDD(usb) for your data. Use about 4GB ram on a 32bit operating system, it cannot use any more than 3.5GB anyway. The extra 500MB can be used for internal Video ram. Disable disk cashing (virtual memory in windows).
Then set the music player to run from ram.
Allan Oh and some people have noticed a difference running the laptop from battery as apposed to mains too.
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Post by kp93300 on Dec 15, 2012 23:13:41 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. I can confirm that there is obvious improvement when i power a samsung spinning HD with a dedicated LM 318 regulated power supply when compared to the on board smps ps.
Hi Alex, I quote
Older SSDs using a SuperCap were reported to be a little noisy though. This type has been superseded. Unquote. Can you elaborate which particular type/ model .? I am tempted to buy a SSD HD to try for myself.
kp93300
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 0:04:07 GMT
Hi No, I can't quote Make or model numbers, but I think you will find that this type is long gone.Some also used inductors inside that audibly chirped with data, and could be heard in a quiet room. Martin Colloms from HiFi Critic magazine used my uploaded comparison .wav files for a report in HiFi Critic Vol.6 No. 1 that confirmed that even though .wav files may have had identical check sums, that the ones ripped using a better power supply sounded considerably better. Regards Alex
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Post by andy on Dec 16, 2012 0:41:36 GMT
Mine chirps, can't remember what it is though. It's in my work laptop now!
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Post by kp93300 on Dec 19, 2012 3:21:17 GMT
Hi I have ordered an Intel 180 gig series 330 solid state hard drive for about US 150 . . Will report back when i have some experience. thanks for the input kp93300
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Post by kp93300 on Dec 24, 2012 1:07:45 GMT
Hi I bought an Intel series 520 180 gig solid state drive. with a dedicated power supply on both the spinning hard disk and ssd. The difference is subtle.
SSD has blacker background resulting in more space around the musicians. The decay from piano and guitar is also slightly better. hand clap from live recordings more realistic. Microdynamic from vocal is enhanced. There is no noticeable change in the freq response or dynamic.. I usually get this sort of sound improvement form better power supply. Could this be the case here?
thanks
kp93300
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 1:16:41 GMT
Of course. Just ignore the sceptics who refuse to accept this is possible with digital. Alex
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Post by Telstar on Jan 18, 2013 19:26:20 GMT
I believe is more important where the OS resides than from where the files are played from, but I heard all kind of preferences and I do what is more convenient for other reasons, that is, no noise from the dedicated PC when I'm listening (OS on SSD), since the files are loaded into ram anyway. My archive is about 1,5TB therefore it resides on properly big drives, 5400rpm also for noise reasons. ah, and I use xxhighend player. YMMV.
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Post by Telstar on Jan 18, 2013 19:28:26 GMT
Of course. Just ignore the sceptics who refuse to accept this is possible with digital. Alex Yes, digital power supply makes a lot of difference even if they shouldn't The cause is still not clear, some guesses are about switching psu polluting the other equipment (particularly analog line level and DAC) and/or emitting EMI/RFI.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:45:06 GMT
Hi Telstar But does it also make high res sound better than good 16/44.1 like it should ? I notice Peter has gone quiet about that aspect recently. BTW, Peter was among the 1st to hear differences between my .wav files with identical check sums around 5 years ago, along with John Kenny and some RG members. These days he routinely "masages" the sound of bits with his various search engines. Presently, there is far too much accent on trying to make poor quality rips sound better, when the SQ of rips can be markedly improved too, by using improved power supplies for both the Optical writer and the used storage medium. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Telstar on Jan 18, 2013 21:38:27 GMT
Hi Telstar But does it also make high res sound better than good 16/44.1 like it should ? I dunno because I have very few highres material in my (even if quite large) library. And both highres and 44.1k should be taken from the same master to compare (normally they are NOT). IMO, if the file is not abused like are most audiophile highres downloads, there is absolutely no reason why it should't sound better when upsampled of 2x or more with Peter's excellent algorythm. Less information is lost and more can be "recreated". He has gone quite on forums, because i think he has nothing to explain or defend anymore. The users can spread the word. But he never stopped improving the player. I also use foobar when I'm up for a quick listen but since KS (engine4), it really does sound better than any other windows player.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 22:35:20 GMT
Hi Telstar It would be interesting to compare a normal high quality CD rip from one of the XXHE forum members, when played with XXHE, against a rip made using special PSUs for both the writer, such as the JLH when in Windows Safe Mode ,against say a USB memory stick powered by a +5V JLH PSU, and with Vbus disconnected at the PC end of the cable, using either cPlay with programs minimised, or jPlay. I don't believe that you can completely reverse the degradation caused by normal ripping methods in a PC using the normal SMPS. Neither do I feel completely at ease about the idea of software being tuned by ear by the developer using different "engines", then voted on by a committee whose playback equipment may be far less revealing than what I am presently using. ( I have often shit stirred Peter about using "Gainclones" and Horn Speakers without any attempt at room treatment measures . ) Don't get me wrong though, I have a great deal of respect for Peter. We are just coming at this problem from different angles. Would you be interested in seeing if XXHE causes 2 different sounding rips to sound the same ? I have verification from several sources that they do sound quite different, despite having identical check sums. Regards Alex
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Post by kp93300 on Jan 19, 2013 1:57:18 GMT
Hi I have since build a linear power supply for the pc and the hard disk. This is an obvious sound improvement when compared to the smps that i replaced. The improvement is confirmed by 4 friends when I conduct a blind listening test. All four are in agreement.
Linear power to the hard disk and the pc show improvement independently
Laptop hard disk only require a single 5V dc and easy to do. cheers
kp93300
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 4:48:39 GMT
Hi I have since build a linear power supply for the pc and the hard disk. This is an obvious sound improvement when compared to the smps that i replaced. The improvement is confirmed by 4 friends when I conduct a blind listening test. All four are in agreement. Linear power to the hard disk and the pc show improvement independently Laptop hard disk only require a single 5V dc and easy to do. cheers kp93300 kp93300 Some of the members may be interested to see how you went about it. Did you take any photos ? Regards Alex P.S. Earlier you mentioned using an LM318 tp power the HDD. I presume that you meant the LM338 ? Did you use 2 x LM338, one for the +12V, and one for the +5V ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 9:32:05 GMT
Hi Guys, FWIW I put JLH REs between the standard (SM) power supply and the Molex power inputs on my ASUS Xonar Essence ST card and I firmly believe it improved the SQ. Not tried doing the same to the power supply to the music library HDD but I might give it a whirl - possibly from same JLH REs?? Dave.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 19, 2013 9:42:27 GMT
Hope I'm not jumping in but in a fit of enthusiasm I ordered the parts for a linear PSU for my musicPC last week, and hope to make a start on it this week.
I use a PicoPSU for the motherboard and was originally going to make a full multirail linear PSU to replace it. However, Allan (pagan) pointed out an interesting link that indicated that feeding the PicoPSU with a linear supply (12Vdc) had very good results. Given how this also simplifies things, I've gone down this route.
The parts I've used are traffo, mur860 diodes for rectification, 20000uF caps, LT1084-12 (12v, 5A fixed voltage reg) and 220uF cap. Very easy to build point to point almost. Obviously, the reg is on a heatsink (which will sit in the extract air stream of the musicPC). The output from this reg is going into one of Greg's JLH's, as it's very easy to bolster the supply rail and 0V traces with copper wire (thanks's to Jeff for that bit of thinking!). The PC should draw 4.5A max, but that is with harddrives, etc connected. As the harddrive and other parts are going to be supplied from their own supplies, the current draw is likely to be much less, closer to 2A max on start up.
As KP93300 mentions, laptop drives use 5V only, so makes that simple enough, especially as draw is 1.5A or less, and the SSD I'll use for storing the music uses 5V and less than an amp. Againm this'll be fed from a JLH
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 11:05:28 GMT
Hi Guys, FWIW I put JLH REs between the standard (SM) power supply and the Molex power inputs on my ASUS Xonar Essence ST card and I firmly believe it improved the SQ. Not tried doing the same to the power supply to the music library HDD but I might give it a whirl - possibly from same JLH REs?? Dave. Dave Are they protected at startup with relays and PW5 resistors? Alex
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 11:23:08 GMT
Alex, I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't the faintest idea of what you're talking about (I'm an electronic 'know-nothing' numptie, remember) but the answer is NO. To clarify, I cut into the existing outputs from the HTPC SMPS, inserted a pair of JLH REs (one for each voltage, surprisingly enough ) and then reconnected the Molex ends of the cable to the ouputs of the JLH REs - works fine so far and, despite suggestions of self delusion (always possible with me ), I think it does help - certainly doesn't make anything any worse to my tired old ears . Dave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 11:42:59 GMT
Dave What is the rated output current of the HTPC SMPS ? When using a JLH with a normal PC , due to the very high current available from it's PSU, you need to use relays to s/c a couple of in series PW5 resistors several hunded mS after the JLH has started up. Alex
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 11:52:20 GMT
Alex, IIRC the PSU is rated at 550W.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 12:02:51 GMT
Alex, IIRC the PSU is rated at 550W. Dave It may not be still working.I would strongly recommend that you remove it and do some voltage measurements as per the fault finding guide using some kind of +12V PSU.Especially check that the voltage across the 33 ohm resistors is around 600mV ( or a little less) and that the BC639 transistor base end of the 120K resistor is close to 1.8V WRT 0 volts (Earth) Alex P.S. I am certain that I did mention to you about the need for protective relays when using a JLH in a PC after you talked about the Asus JLH PSU. See also "Work in Progress" thread. URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/jlhforsmpspsus.jpg/] [/URL]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 12:56:26 GMT
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