mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 28, 2012 12:03:18 GMT
For the last couple of days I have been using the HE500 exclusively while attempting to test a new piece of gear (25 wpc SS mono blocks). For a source I am using a Squeezebox Touch with its stock wall wart power supply. Currently streaming apple lossless files from an iMac.
The mono blocks are still burning in and I find the music coming out of the HE500 to be very musical and engaging. The bass, lower and upper kids are just about perfect. The top end is a bit subdue and I am attributing this to the mono blocks since another amp being fed concurrently has more extended presentation.
Regardless, the HE500 is a very enjoyable can and one which I have enjoyed for the last year and will continue to do so. BTW I am using the pleather pads on the HE500.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Oct 29, 2012 7:18:37 GMT
Miguel how do you plug the he-500's into monoblock amps?
allan
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 29, 2012 10:01:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 12:12:06 GMT
Israel, it's a cracker. I was at the concert all those years ago and never forgot it. I also heard the original master which was put out on radio here.
From my memories of it, the CD was a bit raspy and so I asked Alex if he could rip it for me using the old magic dust to see if the brass 'glare' could be reduced.
The rips seem fuller to me and do indeed take it down a tad but that version is really nice and has the real sense of drama that you'd expect from Mahler; especially on the subject of death and his neurosis!!
The recording was difficult given the huge dynamic range and their attempts at keeping compression low. Very difficult when you have say, two clarinets and a harp playing a trio and two minutes later, the whole band flat out.
I love the lyrical quality in this recording. It's almost like it's being sung quite 'rubato' in places and that anger in the first movement is always in the background. I'm not sure, but I think the exposition is supposed to be repeated and he didn't do it on this recording. I haven't got a score, but I seem to remember that it should be repeated.
The sound engineer was Tony Faulkner, and imo he's done a brilliant job.
The 2nd symphony is one of those pieces that rips me apart every time I hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 18:01:33 GMT
Hi, Ian I agree with you 110%!!! This is the most outstanding version of the 'Resurrection" I have ever heard!!! I just love the deliberate rubatos that Tennstedt takes, as well as the very slow tempi, which for other, less capable conductors, are very difficult to sustain. To be honest, until now, I didn't like Tennstedt's studio recordings, for IMHO they lack expression, BUT obviously he truly showed his greatness in the concert hall! I am an avid Mahler fan, and have many various recordings of his works. The powerful theatric "Resurrection" Symphony holds a very special place in my heart, and many times moves me to tears. Of course I also think that many other of Mahler's works, each of them so different than the others, are even greater, for ex. the 9th Symphony, and "Das Lied von der Erde", however I love all of them, and even the difficult, and longest Third Symphony! I sometimes go for weeks, listening to nothing else, but Mahler! Apropos, if interested, you may want to look up some of the Abbado versions of Mahler's symphonies on DVD with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, which IMHO is incredibly wonderful! I have the score of the "Resurrection", and no, the exposition is not repeated, judging from the quick glance I gave it. I got so excited about this incredible performance of Tennsted's that I ordered a bunch of copies of the CD to give as early Holiday presents for my close friends and loved ones. Sorry if this is gone off-topic, but isn't music what this is all about? Perhaps, to legitimize this post, and for other reasons, I will say that this incredible recording sounds absolutely stunning on my new HE-500 headphones! Cheers! Israel P.S. Thanks again to Alex for UL'ing the rips for me! Sent from my iPad
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 18:56:05 GMT
I'm also very keen on Mahler. My interest was first begun in the 70's when I heard an eccentric version of no 1 by Bernstein. He couldn't have made it any more 'Jewish' sounding if he tried; especially the second movement. Funny about that repeat. For some reason, I thought that The Birmingham Symphony version with Simon Rattle did a repeat of the exposition. I watched the rehearsals for this recording and Tennstedt was absolutely riveting. He was very meticulous and was singing along with it which he stopped for the reording. To me, it sounds as though he's sung the symphony through a great deal in his mind, producing that rubato in his head before conducting. It's very lyrical and it's also nice that he doesn't overdo the string glissandos. I've heard recordings where they sound drunk. (also, some conductors try to get the trumpets to do a kind of 'Jewish' vibrato which can be overdone imo) Sustaining those slower speeds takes a lot of regard for phrasing and shaping which he really did focus on in the rehearsals. For the oboes, the second symphony has a terrible entry after the double basses. The first note that the oboes utter is a low C, so if the reed dries up a bit, it comes out very easily with a squawk. C - D Eb G C after the double bass statement at the start. Very scary to play because of those exposed moments. Also, the first trumpet has a hard time with it. The Drama of the 2nd is amazing from that gripping, angry opening to the 'memories' of real life that come from the off stage brass band and the pathos of that choir. The ending is (to me) almost Voltaire .... everything ends for the best. The big Eb major ending. I just love the piece. Talking of Bernstein - I loved his Candide recording. With the 'Voltarian' ending as well. Mind you, I also adore Gershwin and the end of Porgy is always a big moment for me of which I'm sure you're well aware of. I found that a pig to play in places as well. Some of the really fast woodwind passages in that are really tricky. However, Mahler is just so emotionally ripping. I started as a kid after hearing Bernstein and heard the Bavarian Radio Orchestra box set of all ten and slowly worked my way through them all. I can't remember who conducted them. The tenth 'scream' I found particularly startling with that trumpet note, held when the orchestra finally lets rip. I always wondered about that scream and what it was about. Then I went to see the Ken Russell Mahler film where it was used as a description of Mahler's fear of death. Another one I love is the 6th, with Alma's theme. My goodness, what a composer. And I'm certain they all sound fantastic on the HE500!!! (The beauty of RG and great tolerance )
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 11:47:12 GMT
And more tolerance needed Syd PM would not send. Please check you emails, and let me know if you get that O.K. Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 15:36:04 GMT
[/list] I'm also very keen on Mahler. My interest was first begun in the 70's when I heard an eccentric version of no 1 by Bernstein. He couldn't have made it any more 'Jewish' sounding if he tried; especially the second movement. Interesting! I know that Lenny has been criticized by many for being eccentric, especially in his later life recordings of Mahler, for taking extreme liberties, and dragging the tempos excessively, yet, for the same reasons that I was recently impressed by Tennsted's live performance of the Second, I am more inclined to love and admire this approach. Earlier in my career, I was indeed lucky to have played with Lenny in 1955, and while at the time I was not too impressed with his technique (he was still young!), I admired his enthusiasm. As I am sure you know, he deserves great credit for the Mahler Renaissance, which he almost singlehandedly initiated. There is a great recording of Mahler's 1st, dating back from the 1980s with him and the Concertgebouw on Deutsche Grammophon. If you haven't checked it out yet, I whole-heartedly recommend that you do so. His tempi in that CD are slow, and on the verge of being too much so, but this magnificent orchestra lovingly plays for him at their best, and the end result is indeed breathtaking! Yeah! I have heard that squawk happen in a couple of performances, even by some very good orchestras. That entrance is so critical while all the listener's attention is on the notes C -- D F Ab C, and if and when that happens, it can be quite disheartening! No wonder that all my oboe player friends, eat, drink, and dream oboe reeds! It makes me happy that I chose an "easy" instrument to play! My first experience with Mahler was, when in 1954 as a young pup, I was called to participate in the Mahler 1st, and 9th Symphonies recording sessions with the Israel Philharmonic with Paul Kletzki, conducting. Before that, I had never heard any Mahler, but only knew about him from the music history books! Cheers! Israel Sent from my iPad
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 7:16:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 14:27:47 GMT
That`s a lovely job you have completed there Israel, i wonder if a similar filter could make an improvement to my HE6`s!!!. They sound great as standard, but there is always room for a possible upgrade if possible. Regards. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 6:52:54 GMT
That`s a lovely job you have completed there Israel, i wonder if a similar filter could make an improvement to my HE6`s!!!. They sound great as standard, but there is always room for a possible upgrade if possible. Regards. Mick. Hi, Mick Thanks for your kind words! According to the Inner Fidelity Chart, the Frequency curves of the HE-6 and the HE-500 are very similar. Take a look here: www.innerfidelity.com/content/hifiman-he-5-he-5le-he-6-and-he500-planar-magnetic-headphones-page-2So, I wouldn't be surprised if the filter I built for the HE-500, with possibly some minor adjustments, or component value changes, will have a very similar beneficial effect on the HE-6. I suggest you contact Frans, who may still have some filter PCBs left; he can send you one, and if needed, he can tell you exactly which components you need to order, and/or design a filter specifically for the HE-6. My presumption is that it will not be much different than the one I built, for according to the Inner Fidelity chart, both the HE-6 and the the HE-500 exhibit about the same 10KHz sharp peak, and both dip somewhat at the higher mid-frequencies, starting at 1KHz. PM me if you need Frans' email address. All the Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 7:54:17 GMT
Frans has designed filters for a binload of headphones. When I get home, I'll have a look - can't remember where he keeps the list here!!
He's currently working on a Fostex T40 and T50 filter and the effects are fantastic. A modded T40 will be coming my way eventually when he has got the headphone to measure as flat as possible.
Israel, he's quite curious how the filtered HE500 measures up against your Fostex once it's been modded!! I know that he's sold on the Fostex as long as it's properly modded and filtered. So much so that he has a rig to properly measure what each mod does and once he's found what he regards as the best solution for the T40, I'll be blessed with the headphone to have a good listen.
One thing that we've both found when the FR gets close to flat is that you naturally want to turn the volume up, since the headphone is no longer tuned, taking the old 'listening' curves/volume into account. IE - boost the bass and treble - then you can listen at low levels. Flat - you need higher volume or else it's too far away. It's really quite strange, but if you listen at lifelike volume, it is stunning.
Have you found that it's more comfortable to listen louder Israel? With that spike calmed down, it should be able to play louder without screech.
The resulting impact I get from Timps and bass drums on the T50 is breathtaking. Better imo that the HD650 by far. More natural sounding.
I was on the verge of an HE500 and Frans steered me onto the idea of a T40 or 50 but with mods. I think he's saved me a packet!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 9:07:48 GMT
Frans has designed filters for a binload of headphones. When I get home, I'll have a look - can't remember where he keeps the list here!! He's currently working on a Fostex T40 and T50 filter and the effects are fantastic. A modded T40 will be coming my way eventually when he has got the headphone to measure as flat as possible. Israel, he's quite curious how the filtered HE500 measures up against your Fostex once it's been modded!! I know that he's sold on the Fostex as long as it's properly modded and filtered. So much so that he has a rig to properly measure what each mod does and once he's found what he regards as the best solution for the T40, I'll be blessed with the headphone to have a good listen. One thing that we've both found when the FR gets close to flat is that you naturally want to turn the volume up, since the headphone is no longer tuned, taking the old 'listening' curves/volume into account. IE - boost the bass and treble - then you can listen at low levels. Flat - you need higher volume or else it's too far away. It's really quite strange, but if you listen at lifelike volume, it is stunning. Have you found that it's more comfortable to listen louder Israel? With that spike calmed down, it should be able to play louder without screech. The resulting impact I get from Timps and bass drums on the T50 is breathtaking. Better imo that the HD650 by far. More natural sounding. I was on the verge of an HE500 and Frans steered me onto the idea of a T40 or 50 but with mods. I think he's saved me a packet!! Hi, Ian & Mick Here is the link to Frans' PDF on Headphone filters that he has designed (23 so far): www.mediafire.com/view/?gs9cztom6rcspq7#The HE-6 is not one of them, but IMHO, should be quite similar to the one for the HE-500. The fact that it contains two trim pots should make it easily adaptable to the HE-6, but Frans may want to tweak it even further. Regarding the T40 and the T50 Fostex: they both arrived yesterday, and I will get started on the physical mods soon, however I am still waiting for the Filter PCB to arrive from overseas, so it will be awhile before I will be able to do any comparisons. The active filter in fact involves two boards - the PCB and the add-on circuitry to take care of the 3KHz dip. I look forward to building them. Frans will eventually include the latter in one PCB. After I will have completed the mods, and tweaked them, I will report on how they all compare to my ears. Of course, Frans will be the first to know. His genius in designing circuits is amazing! Nothing seems impossible for him, and I couldn't have built any of these without him and his generosity! And no, Ian. I don't seem to need to turn the volume up with the active filter on the HE-500. The filter itself, by its nature and design, with its three op amps, slightly boosts the volume, while lifting the mid to lower and sub-bass frequencies. It is true, however that I can turn up the volume with less screeching, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 17:07:51 GMT
I'm finding that the T50 kind of blooms as you go up and it plays well at closer to life volumes. I've been naturally doing that all along and Frans mentioned that it worked better louder since there was no compensation for the perceived bass and treble at different volumes.
TBH, I can't wait to hear a modded version of the T40 and Frans has been working very hard to see exactly what happens with each mod until he gets it as flat as possible. The 940 pads bring a strong dip in the treble at 3KHz I think it was so his filter will help to knock that on the head.
He's also extended the range to just beyond 20KHz so it'll be nicely extended.
I'm now finding many headphones are sounding strongly 'tailored' now as a result of sticking with the T50. I guess you must find the same with the HE500.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Feb 14, 2013 5:15:31 GMT
But wouldn't it be easier to use a digital equalizer, than use a analogue equalizer/filter?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 5:31:49 GMT
But wouldn't it be easier to use a digital equalizer, than use a analogue equalizer/filter? Why would you want to put additional opamps and their associated PSU, between the output of a high quality CD player/ source and a high quality preamp or Power amplifier? It is fairly easily demonstrated that opamps in tandem degrade the original source's quality a little more. Just because they use 100's of the little buggers in outdated Recording Studios, doesn't mean that we can't hear differences in a high quality home system. That was readily demonstrated in an earlier preamp design by David Tilbrook that had 2 x NE5534 in series, with the possibility of taking the output from the 1st NE5534. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 8:25:00 GMT
But wouldn't it be easier to use a digital equalizer, than use a analogue equalizer/filter? You can replicate the effect but it's not quite as good actually. In fact, I know that Frans did some readings on the output from the headphones and EQ'd the bits that were peaked or dipped in order to get a preview of what a filter might do. The effect of the filters is subtle in a way, and it targets the rough spot identified with no pots in the way either. The HD681 filter is a great example. It gets the big peak on these headphones and leaves the rest alone - it's not affected in any way. It seems that sharp peaks and dips are more of a problem with sound than smooth ones as well.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Feb 14, 2013 11:24:09 GMT
Ian I just question the idea of putting extra opamps(or any device)in the signal chain.
As per the 6 or 3db per octave cut or boost... Well at 3Khz, +1 octave is 6Khz, -1 octave is 1K5hz that a far range, and higher the frequency the greater the range. not to mention phase shift in odd order ones.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Feb 14, 2013 13:05:42 GMT
The T40 and T50 are excellent headphones aimed at the pro market. That means they have been curtailed at both ends for monitoring purposes. So if you think the T50 is an inferior headphone - that is incorrect. They are an industry standard like the DT150. Not necessarily the best for hi fi people. Ian, seem as though you have listened to both theses headphones, can you tell me what the isolation from outside interference is like on both models? I know the T40 is closed back so it should be better than the T50? I have been following the thread on these phones and would be very interested to know if you consider these have better Isolation/sound than the Beyer DT770pro. The DT770pro is still on my want list because the isolation/sound is what I need, but I never have heard one - nor have I heard the T40/50 either, so these may well be added to my short list for audition when times are financially better. As always your opinion is very valued. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 8:25:50 GMT
Chris, I pm'd
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 9:03:42 GMT
Hi, Mick I heard from Frans yesterday, and he said that both the HE-500 and the HE-6 can use the exact same filter that I built. I don't know if he has any more filter PCBs left, but if you are thinking about building one, I would suggest you email him about possibly obtaining one from him. As I said, my HE-500s have become now phenomenal headphones thanks to this filter! The improvements in FR, transparency, and clarity are indeed amazing, and I think that the upgrade is well worthwhile! All the Best! Israel
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Feb 15, 2013 15:15:00 GMT
But wouldn't it be easier to use a digital equalizer, than use a analogue equalizer/filter? You can replicate the effect but it's not quite as good actually. In fact, I know that Frans did some readings on the output from the headphones and EQ'd the bits that were peaked or dipped in order to get a preview of what a filter might do. The effect of the filters is subtle in a way, and it targets the rough spot identified with no pots in the way either. The HD681 filter is a great example. It gets the big peak on these headphones and leaves the rest alone - it's not affected in any way. It seems that sharp peaks and dips are more of a problem with sound than smooth ones as well. Ian With the amount of people starting to or using pc's for source I would have thought the digital processing would be the way to go. It is a pain in the digital realm to get it right but (IMLE) I thought it was because of the accuracy in the specific frequencies being manipulated. Even foobar has DSP capabilities. Allan Ps I wonder what it is between digital and analogue manipulation? Digital gives much greater accuracy compared to analogue, with it's big sweeping brush.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 16:55:09 GMT
Hi, Mick I heard from Frans yesterday, and he said that both the HE-500 and the HE-6 can use the exact same filter that I built. I don't know if he has any more filter PCBs left, but if you are thinking about building one, I would suggest you email him about possibly obtaining one from him. As I said, my HE-500s have become now phenomenal headphones thanks to this filter! The improvements in FR, transparency, and clarity are indeed amazing, and I think that the upgrade is well worthwhile! All the Best! Israel Hi Israel, Thanks very much, will contact him. Regards. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 18:36:16 GMT
You can replicate the effect but it's not quite as good actually. In fact, I know that Frans did some readings on the output from the headphones and EQ'd the bits that were peaked or dipped in order to get a preview of what a filter might do. The effect of the filters is subtle in a way, and it targets the rough spot identified with no pots in the way either. The HD681 filter is a great example. It gets the big peak on these headphones and leaves the rest alone - it's not affected in any way. It seems that sharp peaks and dips are more of a problem with sound than smooth ones as well. Ian With the amount of people starting to or using pc's for source I would have thought the digital processing would be the way to go. It is a pain in the digital realm to get it right but (IMLE) I thought it was because of the accuracy in the specific frequencies being manipulated. Even foobar has DSP capabilities. I don't use a PC as a source very much tbh. I'm sure Frans would supply details of how his filter differs from a digital EQ.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 17:30:37 GMT
Hi, Mick I heard from Frans yesterday, and he said that both the HE-500 and the HE-6 can use the exact same filter that I built. I don't know if he has any more filter PCBs left, but if you are thinking about building one, I would suggest you email him about possibly obtaining one from him. As I said, my HE-500s have become now phenomenal headphones thanks to this filter! The improvements in FR, transparency, and clarity are indeed amazing, and I think that the upgrade is well worthwhile! All the Best! Israel Hi Israel, can you PM me Frans email address, the one i have keeps coming back as undelivered. Thanks. Mick.
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