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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 20:29:03 GMT
Hi Guys, Here I go again, exposing myself (no, not that way, you can all relax ;D it's far too cold anyway), to loads of criticism from all you guys who know better. I am reliably informed that the 5v and 12v DC Molex connected power supply to the Xonar Essence ST sound card only affects/powers the analogue output, presumably the digital processing is powered by the bottom slot connections. Well today I put a JLH PSU board, (populated of course ), between the normal Molex connector and the Molex input socket on the XT sound card. I added a 2 cm long narrow ferrite sleeve to both the 5v and 12v wires just upstream of the XT connection as a belt and braces addition (can't do no harm and might do some good). Despite the impossibility, I am prepared to run bare-arsed down our avenue if this has not significantly improved the SQ from both the digital and analogue outputs of the XT card and, what's more, I think the improvement to the digital output is more noticeable than that to the analogue output. I guess that indicates I'm a sandwich or two short of a picnic to a good many of you - well that's fine by me, I'm enjoying my picnic , but I'm going to spend the next 24 to 48 hours cowering behind the sofa until the flack dies down . Soooo, what's the verdict then . Edit: FWIW the improvement is equally noticeable on normal red book FLAC rips and 24/192 rips.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 21:16:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 21:26:55 GMT
That ^ doesn't worry me one bit 'cos it's pointing SE and I'm north of you ;D . But it does show me where my friends aren't . Cheers, Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 22:21:58 GMT
We need another GB of JLHs ? Don't forget that I use similar in line with the +12V and +5V to my internal LG BR writer , and according to the experts that shouldn't make a difference either. Neither should those SOtM products ! www.auraliti.com/
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Mar 31, 2012 22:33:27 GMT
Is it posible to do a JLH GB with the components so that any old idiot (that me) can have a go.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 23:28:17 GMT
Is it posible to do a JLH GB with the components so that any old idiot (that me) can have a go. Hi Freddy Before you get too carried away, I would stress that there is more to it than just shoving a couple of JLH PCBs in a PC. The JLH needs some kind of protection due to the very high current supply capabilities of a P.C. As in the photo for example. Regards Alex Attachments:
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Apr 1, 2012 2:03:42 GMT
Maybe there's a way to cut the supply of power through the PCI bus. If we find out which PCI contacts deliver the power, it should be possible to cover them with insulating tape on the PCI cards. But there are two other questions: Will the contacts that deliver the PCI power also transfer data (if yes, then covering is a no-no) and is there a way to feed the entire PCI card through the Molex connector?
A clean power supply can often make a big difference. I don't believe that it would alter binary data (unless a device is defective or simply has absolutely no error checking), but there are other points where I can imagine an influence of electronic components on the PCI card.
Anyway, I'm interested to read your findings here. I have two Xonar Essence STX PCI-E cards here and any improvements to them are welcome. One of the cards is still in the original box since it is intended for another PC, whose components are already lying around. I've ordered the parts for that PC shortly before I got fired (otherwise, I wouldn't have ordered them). At least I have some things to do in the next few months.
The STX cards is for PCI-E and I guess it's almost impossible to cut PCI-E power supply by covering contacts. The PCI-E x1 connector is simply to small IMO.
BTW: What kind of ATX PSU's do you guys use with your PC's? Personally, I've made good experiences with Seasonic PSU's, but there are certainly other good PC PSU's around.
Although PC PSU's aren't exactly the cleanest power sources, my Xonar Essence STX is dead-silent with no signal and the volume in the highest position. Signal-to-noise ratio is very impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 3:19:09 GMT
Christian Both the Xonar D2x and this one have reasonable filtering on board going by the multi page indepth descriptions I have read, and mine is dead silent too. I am not surprised that Dave obtained a further small improvement, but I haven't gone there yet,as it would need another one as in the photo with start-up protection,and my layout is pretty cluttered already. I suppose it could always go on the bottom of the case though. If Dave hasn't fitted some kind of start-up protection to his JLH it will eventually fail.
Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 17:25:41 GMT
Hi Guys, I've discussed Alex's very helpful advice with my builder and I expect to receive a protection module in place by Tuesday - meanwhile the PC stays on to minimise any potential start up damage. I would have been nice to run the Blu-Ray drive from the same JLH but I'm not willing to go against Alex's advice not to. Forgive me if this has been asked before but supplying the power to the Blu-Ray drive through the JLH presumably could improve the SQ of FLAC rips from it and also presumably the SQ from straight CD and DVD playback? Cheers, Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 21:45:03 GMT
Hi Dave I use a JLH to filter the SMPS to the internal LG BR, and the results are my best yet re SQ of rips.Make sure that you don't use 2 low ESR electros in parallel.One should be a normal type of the same value, or the HF will become a little too detailed and ultimately a little fatigueing to listen to. M.C. from HFC magazine has already confirmed this, and I expect that the results regarding better SQ due to better PSUs, should be in HFC Vol.6 No.1 which is at the printers, and ready for binding. I am not privy to the actual contents of the article , but posts by M.C. in HFC forum have already made it clear that I am not imagining these things. "Many thanks to Alex for his painstaking perseverance in this work , No, he is not fooling himself ............" Regards Alex P.S. If using Windows, try ripping your best CDs in SAFE MODE after you install the JLH.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:42:29 GMT
Hi Guys, Just a brief update. My builder wasn't able to get the JLH protector add-on into the post until Tuesday and it appears the overnight snow has delayed it further so I won't be able to fit it until Thursday at the earliest. I have a busy Friday and Saturday in store for me so it looks as though I may not be able to have a meaningful listen after fitting the protection add-on until Sunday at the earliest, but I will keep you posted. However I can report something that might be of interest. Last evening I ripped 5 new CDs to FLAC (sorry Alex ) using dbPowerAmp whilst at the same time listening to foobar playing other FLACs from the same HDD on the PC that dbPowerAmp was storing the ripped FLACs - different directory obviously - something I have done many times with no problem. This time I noticed hearing clicks from the speakers every time dbPowerAmp came to the end of one track and started on another. I have never noticed this before and the only change I've made is to insert the unprotected JLH PSU into the Molex power supply. I thought it might be worth mentioning here and I'll look out for it the next time I rip, which will be after fitting the protector add-on.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 12:01:43 GMT
Dave That will teach you not to rip CDs while the PC is doing other major chores. If you want the best sounding copies, then there shouldn't be any other major activity going on while ripping CDs . I even try to avoid answering emails when ripping my best CDs, and even shut down Windows Live as well as stopping Norton from doing any free time scans for the duration. That's why some people use programs like Fidelizer to minimise other Windows processes while playing music.Ripping is even more sensitive if you want the best results. Was the JLH still feeding the Soundcard only ? Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 14:52:42 GMT
Hi Alex, Yep, JLH only doing sound card duty at the moment .
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 21:20:55 GMT
Many operating systems allow setting the priority for specific processes. This often helps in such occasions. Fidelizer is not doing much beside adjusting exactly these priorities. In other words: It's doing something which is in theory also achievable with the built-in functionality of Windows. But, of course, it makes that much more comfortable for use.
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 21:23:07 GMT
I'm still curious about your experiences with different ATX PSU's. Maybe even a good reason to start an own thread about ATX PSU's.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:03:39 GMT
So am I. I have read that a few of the more expensive PSUs have greatly reduced ripple, and much tighter regulation, not just massive increases in current capability.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:20:51 GMT
I'm still curious about your experiences with different ATX PSU's. Maybe even a good reason to start an own thread about ATX PSU's. Hi Christian, Sorry, I forgot to answer this question. I can't remember the name of the manufacturer (but I will tomorrow ) but mine is a 550W PSU - much larger than Javier suggested I needed but my simple logic said that, for the relatively small price difference, I'd rather have a large one taking it easy than a smaller one working hard all the time. More tomorrow . EDITI've just remembered - it was a Akasa 550W PSU with over 80% effiency, Active PFC and low noise thermally controlled 12cm fan. Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:48:51 GMT
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 23:09:50 GMT
I'm sitting in front of a PC that has a S12II-380Bronze(SS-380GB Active PFC) PSU from SeaSonic. It's only 380W nominal, but the 12V output is quite strong (more than some cheap 500W PSU's). It has still big reserves because I don't use a power hungry graphics card with it and I did not overclock the system (beside intel TurboMode). The CPU is a i5-2500K which is very suitable for overclocking though. Some says it's not work to buy a "K" series CPU unless you'll overclock it, but the price difference is small and it has also HD3000 processor graphics (in contrast to the HD2000 graphics of the standard "non-K" model). The "K" and "non-K" CPU's differ also elsewhere and I like these features. Probably next week, I'll assemble another PC. The parts are already here. It will also feature an i5-2500K CPU, but this time the motherboard is a more expensive model and the system will get a meaty (speak: power hungry) graphics card. This time I'll use a high-end PSU from Seasonic, a X-560(SS-560KM Active PFC) with 560W nominal output. Maybe I'll overclock the CPU of that system slightly. The used graphics card is a GeForce GTX-550 Ti which is already factory overclocked to 975MHz (standard clock is 900MHz). It's not a high-end gaming graphics card. It's only a midrange graphics card. www.seasonic.com/product/pc_retail.jspwww.bit-tech.net/hardware/2011/09/13/what-is-the-best-400-599w-psu/8I've decided to buy another SandyBridge based system with a graphics card that is already on the market for a longer period. Simply because IvyBridge technology was not ready then and because SandyBridge technology is already well supported by Linux. Same for the graphics card. NVidia graphics cards have better drivers for Linux and the GTX-550 Ti is well supported already. The new 28nm graphic cards from ATI and NVidia are still very new to the market and they have released their high-end models first. I don't want the high-end models. I'm more interested in the midrange and low-end models. High-end graphics card use a lot of power and if you don't need them, you can save a lot of money for power and the graphic cards. Most likely, I'll buy IvyBridge technology and 28nm graphic cards later - at least if I find a new job soon. Otherwise, my SandyBridge PC's will also do a good job for the next few years. Performance is very good. Really no need to buy an i7-2600K or i7-2700K CPU. i5-2500K is almost as fast, but much cheaper and it also generates a bit less heat. There are reports that the i5-2500K is overclockable up to 5GHz. I guess that is more than enough... Overclocking is often not very advantageous if you look at the power consumption. At the latest if you have to increase the core voltage of a CPU, power consumption will increase dramatically. Undervolting a CPU could be very interesting from that viewpoint since it will lower power consumption. SandyBridge-EP (i7-39xx) with six cores and four memory channels is only useful for extremely demanding tasks and/or if you have too much money around.
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 23:14:07 GMT
X-560 @ 50% load: X-560 @ 100% load:
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 23:24:35 GMT
HardOCP has also a review about the X-560: www.hardocp.com/article/2010/11/08/seasonic_xseries_x560_power_supply_review/They seem to rate the Corsair TX550M a bit higher than the Seasonic X-560 (the quote is from the Corsair review). I can't say much about the differences. It's difficult to rate how relevant some points are. Both PSU's are certainly well above the line. I don't like the Corsair memory though. I've seen more than one PC with Corsair memory that had memory failures or compatibility problems. The big question is of course if Corsair produces the memory itself. Corsair doesn't make memory chips at all and at the most they are assembling the memory modules. As always, it's quite difficult to get a real insight behind what subcontractors are doing. I wouldn't wonder if some PSU's with different brands are from the same Chinese manufacturer.
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2012 23:26:34 GMT
That's a quote from the HardOCP review about the X-560:
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Post by xerxes on Apr 4, 2012 23:59:27 GMT
There are dozens of PSU manufacturers, but its rare that brands like Corsair, OCZ, Antec etc. actually make their own. They may design them, or certain aspects of them and then have them built by one of the actual manufacturers. Here's an article that may be of interest: www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Discover-Your-Power-Supplys-Real-Manufacturer/370/1Here's another one: www.tomshardware.co.uk/psu-manufacturer-oem,review-32046.html This would suggest that if you can determine the actual model of one of the high price branded PSUs you may be able to find the same PSU sold for a lot less by a different brand, or as an unbranded version. For my PCs, I generally steer clear of the really cheap and nasty unbranded PSUs and in the past have bought models from Antec, Corsair and OCZ based on favourable reviews. Because I put together my own PCs, I don't mind paying a little extra for a good PSU as I may use the same one for quite a few years, whereas I may upgrade the CPU, motherboard etc. serveral times while keeping the same PSU.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 19:31:27 GMT
Stand by!! Just ripped a CD with which I am very familiar with PC in Safe Mode and Blu-Ray player powered via a relay-protected JLH PSU and the resultant rip is the best I've heard that CD sound. . To increase your incentive for posting your mis-belief the ripped tracks were played via the digital output from my Xonar ST card also powered by the same relay-protected JLH PSU and I also believe that improves the SQ. I know that such results are theoretically impossible so I must be deluding myself but you'll never be truly sure until you try it for yourself . I now propose to go for a lay down in my nuclear bunker until the fallout has settled . Cheers, Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 22:02:29 GMT
Stand by!! Just ripped a CD with which I am very familiar with PC in Safe Mode and Blu-Ray player powered via a relay-protected JLH PSU and the resultant rip is the best I've heard that CD sound. . To increase your incentive for posting your mis-belief the ripped tracks were played via the digital output from my Xonar ST card also powered by the same relay-protected JLH PSU and I also believe that improves the SQ. I know that such results are theoretically impossible so I must be deluding myself but you'll never be truly sure until you try it for yourself . I now propose to go for a lay down in my nuclear bunker until the fallout has settled . Cheers, Dave. Dave Ignore the closed minded sceptics from the "bits are bits" brigade. You are NOT wrong. Hi Fi Critic Vol.6 No.1 is now available, and Martin Colloms article makes it clear that Power Supplies do matter, even with Digital. I should have a copy of this issue via airmail shortly. I understand that they even tried replacing an SMPS in a server with a Linear PSU and reported SQ improvements. Martin Colloms is not only a qualified Engineer, he is also an Audio Consultant, and well established audio reviewer of >20 years experience. His HFC contributors, and friends, include other well known audio reviewers, as well as people like Audio designer and Author,Ben Duncan. www.benduncanresearch.com/
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