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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 11:34:21 GMT
I've got it turning better now and can go up and down the room with left and right turns. It takes a lot of concentration but there is a weird thing about the mix I'm using:-
On right turns, add right aileron or else it shoots off to the left. On left turns, also add right aileron plus a little forward as well. That stops the heli falling left. (literally)
I've got it virtually under control now at 50% which crisps the responses up a lot from my previous 30%. I'll try working up to 70% today because it does actually fly better with more positive tweaks, but they have to be tiny.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 31, 2011 12:35:11 GMT
You're getting a bit advanced with all this "mixing" stuff mate... here's me, like a caveman, pointing that neanderthal transmitter in its general direction, scratching my head and wondering why it keeps smacking into the wall at great speed (the helicopter, not my head)........... It's pretty insane but, fortunately, it's like a fly bouncing off the wall and seems pretty robust... I'll have to get the room redecorated and, instead of wallpaper, get the room padded out in foam... it would be good acoustically, I can bounce up and down on it and it will protect the helicopter from damage
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 13:54:28 GMT
I did say, cover the walls!!! It does fly just like a cp. I took it out today for one fly and it does behave well out there even with just slight puffs. (like me. ;D) It's a really good fly actually but it does need real control, just like cp's. I'm amazed that you're holding it with a stock transmitter tbh, Mike. You have to have nerves of steel for that. If you can hover with that, then with a proper transmitter, you'd be flying it. You really would. It makes life a lot easier with the more difficult helis and this one is a real step up from single blade with flybar. It's a totally different thing once you take the stabilisation away. I'll probably move on the the MCPx once I have this fully flying like the msr. I can chuck the msr all over the place but the trouble is that you learn the flybar traits and if you do the same thing with the msrx, you'd be hitting the walls. Same for you and the V2. You kind of take for granted what the flybar actually does and 'learn' to fly the wrong way really. For instance, you must have noticed that if you give a command, it just keeps going until you give the opposite command!! That's typical cp 3d heli behaviour and so once you get a grip of that, I'd say go for the Honey Bee, Mike. I bet they have a lot in common. Just watch the turns on the msrx though. Left turns are MAD!! Push the aileron right and forward!! Watch carefully and control any wayward drift and she turns fine. The reason I got the DX6i was because I've been doing a lot of reading and I emailed a guy in Canada who wrote a book about flying the msr and the 120sr. His site is: www.rchelicopterfun.com/After me telling him what I found it doing in the air, he helped me with some ideas as to how to set up the transmitter to get it to behave properly for a beginner. Having said that, I had to put the values up outside. That's the nice thing about a programmable transmitter - you can just dial in the settings that you need for comfortable flying in the area that you have to fly in so indoors, I pull all of them right down so they are really placid and speed up if I want a bit more action. You're much more in control of it that way and you can adjust the settings to your own way of flying. I wouldn't fly anything big outside without one now if I'm honest. The stock transmitters tend to be crude in the way that they work and they do get you in the air, but getting it up safely in the air is another matter. The DX6i has painfully pointed out the deficiencies of the stock and also the DX5e. They're fine for the MCX series and the DX5e is great for the old msr and the CX series but any further and I think they're screaming for a DX6i big time. I can now fly the 120 sr pretty confidently indoors even so I feel quite confident of going up to something more demanding - just because of the transmitter!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 14:27:02 GMT
I'll do a short and quick hover video and post it. I'm not clearing up the mess in my fun room though cos it's Christmas!!!!
I'll try and hold it for the camera and do a circle before landing!!!
Don't laugh if I crash......
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 14:58:50 GMT
Here it is - not the best of my flying but I was watching it through the camera to try and keep it in so it's always difficult to control when you can't fully see what you're doing!! The window is never big enough indoors for helis. Just took off, hovered a bit and then turned and landed. Nice and slow.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 15:30:54 GMT
I missed it, what happened? I was staring at the bottle of Bells
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 15:40:57 GMT
I missed it, what happened? I was staring at the bottle of Bells Oh Yes!!!! You're right, it is a bottle of Bell's as well!! Whoops. Now you know why I was flying like a nancy - it's very difficult when you can see two helicopters. What really worries me is when they both go different ways. No, this heli is seriously mad to fly with computerised stabilisation but not much else to keep it straight. It almost has a will of its own and a simple task like turning involves a lot of juggling of the joysticks to stop it sliding about. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to keep straight!! Even when you haven't been at the Bells.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 31, 2011 15:46:34 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 31, 2011 19:03:47 GMT
Ian, I don't think this one is for me mate It's just a bit too hard to fly for me.... I'm happy with the Nine Eagles solo V2 Pro and really don't need any "faster".... it's as it came in the box yesterday (not wrecked!) is there anything in your e-flite range you'd like to swap for it? I think the V2 is WAY fast enough for indoors and, remember, I am pretty much restricted to indoor flying up here what with the wind... let me know if there's anything you have that can be swapped then you'll have two
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 19:46:56 GMT
I love 'em all, Mike!!
The problem is your transmitter. It's too fierce. How about a chat with Sam - he may have a nice Walkera to swap?
I fly the lot from mcx to 120 sr which is big and fast. (About as fast as the msrx but twice the size!!)
Now you can see why I'm so careful with the 120!! If that chops your face, it'll cut. I got myself in the nipple with the msrx today. Even that hurt!!
My favourite which is relatively easy to fly is the msr, but they've stopped making them which is a great pity.
I agree, this is an advanced heli, but you'd be flying it with perseverance. It's taken me 4 days to be able to hover and turn.... and I'm using a programmable transmitter so I can calm it down. That's why I'm surprised you got it in the air and not through the ceiling.
I've been playing around with mixes as well and have found that it's a bit easier on turns with some forward shoved in on one mix for left turns and on mix 2, some aileron shoved in as well.
So that's two mixes on left turns at the same time. You need to be an octopus to turn it without the computer!!!! What is a shamne is perhaps the main board doesn't have something like this already programmed in. Maybe its characteristics will change with FFF and I'll have to switch the mixes out but at least for slow turns in the house at the moment, its getting it round a bit more securely.
This one is good indoor training for the CP outside, Mike. That's about how the Honey Bee will fly when you get it up in the air. That's how I found mine until the tail rotor packed up and it spun stupid!!
I haven't really got anything I want to get rid of tbh. They all have their quirks but you kind of learn them.
The msrx is fast and extremely responsive and I'd say even at 70% servo throw, it's too quick, which is what you're getting. Great outdoors to fight the air currents but indoors, it's lethal.
Why don't you keep trying or see if Sam has something - he may be interested in the msrx or one of the club members. They need a good transmitter though.
I'm managing mine although I still fight with left turns. There must be a solution but it is weird. On fast forward it needs left aileron and on slow left turns, right aileron. It's kind of 'suck and see'.
Trouble is, at the moment, I'm too frightened to push too fast forward and test the left because I haven't got enough room indoors.
Oh well, break from flying for a couple of days - off to Norwich. Snow may be on the way up there, Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 1, 2012 13:27:15 GMT
You flying in the nude now?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 16:28:57 GMT
They'd be calling them choppers rather than helis then!!!
I'm in a Norwich hotel now so tomorrow, I may pay a visit to the model shop in the city centre. I'm sure I saw one last time I was here.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 1, 2012 21:50:58 GMT
25 minutes on it now and I'm getting the idea! I even managed to whip her round the back of the settee for a bit of drama best viewed full screen / 720p
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 8:47:31 GMT
That's not bad at all, Mike. It's behaving pretty well there. You must be just breathing on the sticks!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 2, 2012 12:12:50 GMT
That's not bad at all, Mike. It's behaving pretty well there. You must be just breathing on the sticks!! They don't take a lot of moving else the thing would fly right through the wall.... I can imagine this would be pretty stunning outdoors
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 18:58:22 GMT
That's not bad at all, Mike. It's behaving pretty well there. You must be just breathing on the sticks!! They don't take a lot of moving else the thing would fly right through the wall.... I can imagine this would be pretty stunning outdoors Yes, that's exactly what I think. It certainly has enough power to face breezes and that's what the guy in the shop that sold it to me said. He's had one for over a month and he says it's much more stable outside. I've tried it but very gingerly. It does seem ok but I'm not secure enough with it to send it up and out into the sky yet. I flew it tonight when I got home, with the DX5e which has a straight linear response like the standard but a bit less ferocious and it seems ok on low settings. I'm being very gentle though because it does have a tendency to shoot off manically if you give it the chance. Turning it round while moving forwards is a challenge; especially left. It starts to move the whole heli left or right and you end up trying to stop it and get it to stay still again. I haven't got the confidence yet to do as I do with the msr and 'fly through' it. If the msr goes a bit wayward, I continue flying and use the drift to go into the next move if you see what I mean. However, this flies in a totally different way and seems to need a lot more space. I have a problem with the DX6i so it's going back tomorrow so I'll be slumming it with the dx5e instead for a while!! It feels like a totally different heli on that. Anyway, I'm glad to see that you're getting to grips with it now since I'd felt that you were going to give up with it. That's how I felt with the old msr when I first got it!! I reckon the msrx is a really good training for cp helis and is a medium to advanced heli as far as flying properly goes.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 2, 2012 19:36:39 GMT
I'm starting to get quite bold with it Ian and should be able to do a 5 minute video by this time next week... I try not to think about the sticks and just correct the helicopter as it flies instead of pointing it in a certain direction (if that makes sense)... this is more of a correct and go flight and not your standard "point and shoot" type... it, basically, wants to do it's own thing and it's up to you to make sure it doesn't. Not sure if that's as pleasurable (and controllable) as coaxial BUT.... once you get used to it, you'll be able to do a lot more with it.... I wish the fekkin' wind would bugger off up here, I'd love to take her outside and really give 'er sum stick... there's less to crash into outside Leather the arse off her, give her a damned good thrashing.... god, this is turning me on
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 21:00:39 GMT
That's about it Mike, going with the flow and controlling rather than pushing it like you have to with coaxials. They wait for commands but this one demands commands straight away and you can't leave it just floating for long.
I'm concentrating on smooth left turns. I think if you 'go with the flow' and control, you end up starting to learn its movements and in fact, you start commanding it properly without realising.
I'm pretty sure that you'll get the same with that Honey Bee, Mike.
Actually, I'm using the DX5e with it and that's pretty good on low rate. It has a hidden feature that I found out about accidentally. It has built in expo rates which means you can kind of smooth out the middle of the stick range to make it smoother.
The DX5e is a mini bargain really. Although it's not programmable, it is more comfortable than stock and makes things easier.
£46 for a transmitter - not too bad value imo. I'd like to try it with an mcpx since it's a mini cp heli.
Anyway, I'm glad to see you're getting to fly it now, Mike. Is it starting make you feel that a fully fledged cp is more possible?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 9:55:37 GMT
Mike, a lot of people on an rc site are saying that this heli shouldn't need trimming because it's flybarless.
Anyway, I played around this morning, moving the battery back and forth and the funny thing is that it does seem better behaved with the battery back quite a lot.
I'm using the 190 MaH long batteries and lining the black bit up with the centre of the cog seems to make it tamer. So it doesn't wander with lots of forward weight and equally doesn't wander with back weight but I'm able to fly it really calmly when the battery is back a bit.
The battery holder is placed quite a long way forward in the nose but pulling the battery back stops it running away too fast with itself and gives you space to actually control it.
I managed quite a few left turns like this. I don't know if you've tried doing a left while going forwards, but it has this habit of totally lurching left when you do. On the RC site that I read, quite a few have mentioned this and some reckon it's poor computer software in the controller unit. You can fly around it, but left is very different from right!! (Forwards and very slightly right aileron)
There's not an easy way to check cog with no flybar.
EDIT: I've been flying a lot today and she's starting to go. In all honesty, the room feels a tad too small to let it fly properly. I can get it to turn left ok, but it does need quite a curve to get round when it's moving. Right turns aren't so problematic.
On the American site I've been reading, there are guys who are saying the software in the computer isn't right and are suggesting a V2 of it to correct the left turn problem.
It kind of stops all forward motion and banks left rapidly so you end up having to compensate with right aileron and different amounts of forward depending on the speed that it's going forward.
I did a 'moving' left turn today and I'm not kidding, it was at the other end of a 30 foot room in a second and I had to put the brakes on fast!! It is extremely fast and I'm findning myself holding it back a lot.
Outside would probably be very different.
I really like this heli; even with that left turn anomaly. You can get round it but I have been working on left turns for a lot of time today - only that!!
Getting a good grip of it now though as well.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 4, 2012 9:24:41 GMT
Ian, does your canopy have cracks in it yet? From all the bouncing off the wall mine has about 4 cracks (you have to look closely to see them) what I have done is to thinly spread some araldite over them (from the inside) and this seems to have made them stable..... I won't buy a new canopy until I have totally mastered this little beast.
Another thing I've noticed.... if you give it a real whack the main motor moves and the gears cogs seperate.... I have cured this with a strategic dash of araldite... the black gunk they use doesn't seem to be doing it's job.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 10:43:16 GMT
No Mike, not yet. I haven't hit the walls.
I've hit the sofa or a chair, but so far not walls!!
I've basically got it flying now but still fighting with the left turns. I'm using the DX5e and not the toned down DX6i because that's gone back to the shop to be looked at. It was playing up, so I'm working with 70% servo movement.
Actually, that crisps up the response so it's not too bad. I just move extremely slightly!!!!
I try to avoid doing 'normal' flights until it flies properly so that I don't smack them if possible, Mike. Been working on small things like take off/landing followed by short hovers etc.
So now at the point where I can send it round the room easily as long as I turn right. Left is another problem so I'm working at the left turns only.
One thing at a time and then maybe finish with a very gently fly around.
I've crashed it twice, but in both cases, I just dropped the throttle and let it fall to the floor so no damage was done.
Whereabouts are the cracks? Right on the nose? I wondered whether the window might separate from the body when I first looked at it.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 4, 2012 10:59:35 GMT
Both cracks are near the nose just below where the recess is (the curve)... the araldite seems to have stitched them up nicely... there was also a crack on the tip of the nose but, again, a small drizzle of araldite into the nose has strengthened it. Phoned Sam earlier and he reckons it would be easier to fly with longer blades, will take it into town tomorrow so he can have a look at it.... maybe Honey Bee blades?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 13:35:07 GMT
Some guys in the USA are fitting the old msr blades to it. They're wider but the same length.
They reckon they get more lift that way.
I wonder how it would then fly outside though.
Lots of people are annoyed about the left turns. What I don't get is that they are saying that it lurches right on a left turn. Mine doesn't - it plummets left so I give it right aileron plus forward when it flies slow and lots of forward push when it's moving faster.
I daren't do a banked turn. It'll probably go straight through me!!
There's barely any stabilisation going on although the hover is pretty still as long as there's a 'hint' of movement in the sticks.
It's a good 'un to learn - you'll have that Honey Bee up much easier after this. In fact, because it's bigger, the Honey Bee is probably better behaved.
Mike, with regards to the canopy - the MCX2 canopy fits if it's cheaper. Another idea is your own - foam inside the canopy.
I'm flying at 100% servo now and I've also taken the expo out. (smoothing of the middle section of the joystick) It goes like bleedin' rocket.
I must admit, I like the crisp, fast response that you get on full servo. It actually flies slightly differently and left turns aren't quite as bad when you have a faster response. (Or I'm getting better at them)
This and the 120 sr are about on a par for speed, but the MSRx is more difficult to hold than the 120 which rolls about but is basically more stable with its flybar.To think, I used to think the 120 a difficult thing to keep in the air!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 17:50:39 GMT
Mike, I checked the main gear on mine and there was a tiny amount of play. Mine's not had any major bangs so I don't know whether it was there at the start or whether it's worked slightly loose with all the flying.
Anyway, just like on the coaxials, pushing the gear back up so that it clicks into place makes it fly better; especially on turns.
Maybe they need checking every once in a while?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 6, 2012 19:24:35 GMT
Yes, worth keeping an eye on the gearing. Sam gave me a loan of his DX6i this afternoon and dialled in 70%... he's interested to learn of your settings Ian, do you have them to hand? He was telling me all about "dog leg" throttle curves and exponential settings etc. etc. even demonstrated with his hands and also drew a graph but I must admit I've forgotten it all... I really must take pen and paper with me next time
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