Will
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Post by Will on Nov 26, 2011 9:30:06 GMT
Hi Shaun, Nice post! Something straightforward for anyone to try, and quite a good result, knowing that it equals more expensive commercial cables. That's the best bit about diy for me! I'd be very interested in how/if this same cable improves if you used an eichmann connector. I know it takes it out of the budget bargain territory, but would it be a 'silly-money' cable slayer? Hay Will funny you should say that as i was wondering if you'd like to do the review. on the cables IMHO they are far from perfect but at the price I'm pretty happy with them. it would be nice to have another set of ears on them just out of interest.I'm reluctant to say tooo much about giants and their slaying as it's just as much about the rest of the system but IMHO cables can give the sound a nudge in a particular direction. i really got into home brew cables when the ones i wanted to try where way too expensive. i do think that something cheap like this gives people the opportunity to find out for themselves and not get burned by expensive rip offs. did you notice DNM use plasic bodied plugs? i may give some a try. I'll pop them in the post for an honest review if you have the time. I'd like your opinion. take care Hi Shaun, Listening to the different IC's would be a great thing, but I'm playing Edward Paint-Roller-Hands to at least Christmas, and the hifi is in bits. I'll take you up in the offer when I'm back in business. On the IC front, I have a set of QED Qunex Silver Reference, which I've had for ages, with all others being the bog standard IC's that come with kit. I can hear the difference between those two quite easily! I'm very lucky to have been given some eichmann bits and pieces for services rendered, so I'm interested in making best use of those, even if it means spending a bit more than I normally would. It'd be a shame to waste them. I don't think that these will make the system, just give it that final polish, as it were.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 10:46:08 GMT
I found out the hard way that skimping on plugs doesn't work out. First one of the plugs melted a bit during soldering, leaving me with an off-centre/bent middle bit of the RCA plug, but then shortly after the plug shorted out and caused all sorts of issues. On the other end of the cable was a 3.5mm Neutrik plug, which was wonderfully easy to deal with by comparison. On that note, anybody with some nice Y-splits? I'll probably make another 3.5mm-stereo RCA cable at some point and still haven't found a reliable-looking way to connect one cable in to two. -JoetheArachnid Hi Joe TA yep been there and done that with the internal pin. thats one of the main reasons i use the phono socket as a jig. it holds things nice and steady and acts to sink heat away from the pin and stops it going into melt down. it also depends on the insulation material used between the center pin on the plug body. on the cheap ones that tends to be quite poor quality and easy to melt. so for a few extra quid as you say the Neutrik ones are well made which in turn makes them nice to solder and use. but as i say I've done that melt and cuss before and it's nice not to feel alone on that. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 11:07:51 GMT
Hay Will funny you should say that as i was wondering if you'd like to do the review. on the cables IMHO they are far from perfect but at the price I'm pretty happy with them. it would be nice to have another set of ears on them just out of interest.I'm reluctant to say tooo much about giants and their slaying as it's just as much about the rest of the system but IMHO cables can give the sound a nudge in a particular direction. i really got into home brew cables when the ones i wanted to try where way too expensive. i do think that something cheap like this gives people the opportunity to find out for themselves and not get burned by expensive rip offs. did you notice DNM use plastic bodied plugs? i may give some a try. I'll pop them in the post for an honest review if you have the time. I'd like your opinion. take care Hi Shaun, Listening to the different IC's would be a great thing, but I'm playing Edward Paint-Roller-Hands to at least Christmas, and the hifi is in bits. I'll take you up in the offer when I'm back in business. On the IC front, I have a set of QED Qunex Silver Reference, which I've had for ages, with all others being the bog standard IC's that come with kit. I can hear the difference between those two quite easily! I'm very lucky to have been given some eichmann bits and pieces for services rendered, so I'm interested in making best use of those, even if it means spending a bit more than I normally would. It'd be a shame to waste them. I don't think that these will make the system, just give it that final polish, as it were. Hi Will No worries on that it was just a thought.I'll be putting a few more budget cables together over the next while so should have a small collection for you to try by the time you are ready. i think that having the chance to try out some different cable types before purchase will help you find the right one for you. i like those bullets but you just need to be a little careful with the heat thing and plastic bodies. another one worth trying is the Hificollective (Homegrowncable company) solid silver in PTFE jacket which i used for Alexei's Class A build. It's not quite as good as the M but it's pretty good for the price and cheaper which is nice. so maybe in a few weeks we will have a selection of affordable cables to post round. (the Great RG cable athon) I'm going to need some ears so the offer is open to all. anyone interested can let me know so long as they are willing to cover return postage that's going to be just I've not heard the QED but find the fact that you can spot them easily interesting. so next up the great pinko with Nuetriks. oh loudspeaker cables i was at an audio jumble quite a few years ago and stumbled across some Chord (rumor i think it was but the bi wire stuff) i got 6 M of the stuff for £30 quid and took it home for a closer look. hey this stuff is just silver on copper stranded in a PT FE jacket and well i nearly fell over when i found out what that stuff costs retail. so after some looking i found some similar stuff in RS PT FE silver on copper stranded hook up wire and made some clones. yup just as good as the Chord (and i do like the Chord stuff) but a fraction of the price. i ended up with 8 wires per side and still use those cables as I've not found better. I'll See if i can find a link for that stuff. i did say at the beginning ''don't even get me started on that'' take care
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Nov 26, 2011 19:54:09 GMT
Alex.
I would be tempted to say just the opposite. If the source is very good you would want to wring everything out of it by using the best cables; I won't go so far as to say my source is up to the cables. All I can say is that finding a cable that I like at a small proportion of the source's cost is a win for me. I would also compare £40pm to the silly money I paid for the Kimber I use to the headphone amp. The thing is home made can be just as good.
I would second Chord for speaker cables. I find they work well if you rewire the internals of the speakers too. Having said this I currently use Nordost Red Dawn and spent an afternoon rewiring a pair of Mission 751 tweeters with Blue Heaven - it is not a cable to buy unterminated. Worth it though. Before anybody asks these were dog ends off Ebay and the speakers and all the cabling worked out at £115.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 20:44:11 GMT
Freddy I would prefer to wring the most out of the source by further refining that area, as I have just done in a post in the computer area, by improving the sound quality of downloaded high resolution .flac files.Things like using silver in cables etc,are more like tuning the system to your personal taste, by giving a small apparent increase in HF detail. You can "improve" apparent HF detail for example by similar methods to those used by Mike in his modifications, using different type and value capacitors, or bypassing certain capacitors with a carefully selected lower value type. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 21:21:09 GMT
Hi FreddyPS and Alex
''I would second Chord for speaker cables'' good i'll dig out the link for the clones.
all good points and i guess my take is er
yes and yes
source components are important as is everything else in the audio chain. a bad sounding system won't sound better for great cables and visa verse. a great sounding system with those give away IC and bell wire speaker cable is never going to reach it's full potential IMHO but others may differ on that.
so for me i think that cables are a useful way of nudging the sound in one direction or another. yes sometimes the sound change can be small but if I've learned anything here it's that the small things add up.
kimber
yes i have some of his mains cables and have use 4 and 8tc speaker and tc interconnects. I found that DIY was a better way to go and now only use my own cables. but I've heard the nordost stuff and it's good so now we just need to find a way of cloning it. ;Di think that Audio Note also use the monofilamet approach with some of their IC's as the stranded silver ones I have are all individually coated in enamel. but of course screened coax so different to nordost.
i still use the mains stuff so almost in the territory where it's legal to be burnt as a witch.
to be fair it was Russ A who spoke about the importance of cables, PSU quality and component selection wayyy before most even started to think of it. Yup most people just laughed at him.
well let's just say that i think things started to go downhill when he finished with the DIY cataloger stuff
is the Mundorf GVFM well if you try to find something simular commercially made it's going to cost much much more so all of the DIY brownie points on that front. I've used their caps also (silver oils, Mlitics, ZN) all very very good.
so IMHO value for money is all relative to the equipment you have or hope to have in the future.
that's the other great thing about DIY
we can have things in our music replay system that we could not hope to afford or even justify spending the sort of money required for the same item in the commercial sector.
so that's why i play with cables
because the small things add up.
i think you both have made good points and you are both right.
but
take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 22:04:49 GMT
but i think a few basic cable options with decent quality plugs is a great place to start experimenting at no great cost. i think it might be fun to see how low we can go so a pair of twisted CAT5 three strand would be pretty cheap and fun. can you tell the difference between Stork and Butter (older people from the UK may remember that). take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 23:08:38 GMT
Not just the U.K.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 23:31:46 GMT
Not just the U.K. Hi Alex you had the pleasure of that advert also? ;D i thought it was just us who had to take that particular challenge take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 0:46:00 GMT
Not just the U.K. Hi Alex you had the pleasure of that advert also? ;D i thought it was just us who had to take that particular challenge take care That's a blast from the past! It's all gone Utterly Butterly now or "I can't believe it's not Butter". Come on darlin', you know you'd prefer a stalk Ahem, BOT... My personal feeling for ICs is that they are there purely to extend one circuit board to another. They should not change the character of the sound at all but they should protect it against any nasties while it leaves the relative safety of one metal box to get to the next. I used to always poo-poo HQ ICs as just "tone controls" until I met the Nordost BH, which clicked with me and is still, many years on, my preferred IC. Many others have been and most certainly gone, failing the basic test of; are they truer than my own or BH?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2011 17:43:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2011 22:56:38 GMT
Hi Jeff great find pretty interesting looking cable which could be used for a number of different things. IC's included looks like a great price. I'd be really interested in hearing how you get on with it so please feel free to post your thoughts once it arrives. take care
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Jan 3, 2012 20:32:12 GMT
My HiFi gear has always been close together - I have never used monoblock amps next to the speakers, so half meter cables were all that I ever needed. I sold MonsterCable for a while, so I had access to good plugs. I have never heard any difference in my 0.5m cables regardless if Monster, coax, twisted pair silver or tubes filled with mercury (modelled after a van den Hul experiment).
My experience has been that differences in sound in other systems with longer interconnects was always an RC, LC or RCL effect that was explainable based on the (high) input impedance of a tube buffer stage/transformer/magnetic phono cartridge and unfavorable cable geometry. I have never been "surprised" by a cable result that I could not explain.
Most of my interconnects are now low capacitance, shielded, low microphonic, balanced microphone cables. I solder both ground lines and the shield together so there is no "balance" anymore. I consider the consistent ground to be the most critical connection in the audio chain. I think that RCA connectors are the most stupid invention in the history of electronics. What idiot invented a connector that disconnects the ground first?
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Post by pcourtney1 on Jan 4, 2012 0:16:51 GMT
an American company of course !
The name "RCA" derives from the Radio Corporation of America, which introduced the design in the early 1940s to allow for phonograph players to be connected to home amplifiers, and that should have been its only purpose, for the intended use of record player inputs only :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 1:13:48 GMT
Do the professional style RCA plugs that connect earth first, with their retractable earth, disconnect the earth first ?
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Post by adespade on Jan 6, 2012 21:35:32 GMT
Hi, I'm newbie to the site having just acquired a X-10D that I'm considering upgrading and getting so thanks for providing an interesting thread that enticed me to join and contribute to it! I'm still in the cable agnostic camp - I want to believe but have yet to be convinced its worth spending much (speaker as well as interconnects) . I will usually take recomendations from the Hi-Fi press to upgrade standard interconnects but never spend much on them. The last oneI was included with the CDP & amp I bought (VdH!) But I'm all for a bargain and would much prefer to make my own clone than pay through the nose if its going to sound at least as good. I have made interconnects using gotham cable in the past but wasnt enamoured with the results - neither were What Hifi www.whathifi.com/review/gotham-gac-1I've also bought some Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects after reading about them on other forums - because they were inexpensive and do in fact a reasponable job. Shaun, the cable you made looks very much like a signature cable I did spend a bit more on in my attempt to convince myself - from Robert Schofield a couple of years ago www.robertschofieldaudio.co.uk/browse.php?section=Interconnects. I bought it with DIN connectors but later converted it to RCA (with Nutrik plugs) but in doing so I used a 2 HOT and 1 COLD configuration but didnt really applying any logic to that decision, so I was wondering whether you did? And (apart from cost) why 3 and not 4 wires? I would be very interested in that Chord Rumour clone - did you also find the RS information regarding the cable??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 20:56:27 GMT
Can anyone recommend suppliers of cable suitable for headphone cables? Preferably in the UK? I'm at a loss! Why not pm Mike for some Evolution Pro. He should still have loads left. I used it to recable my 681's and my Grado's. It's a nice cable to work with and doesn't have any particular signature of it's own that I could hear, Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 22:51:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 12:19:26 GMT
Hi All sorry for my absence but I've been a little pre occupied with my AK Class A PA build. Hi Strokey i think that the solid core stuff i posted for the first build may be a little stiff for your needs. also cable for headphones needs to take ''handling noise'' into consideration so screened may be better in that spot. I've not heard the Evolution stuff but it seems well liked. however i have a little time on my hands so I'm up for the MK2 cable build. as luck would have it mr bluesboy's link www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Pickup-Shielded-Silver-Teflon-Wire-3-cond-15-ft-/230622957738?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item35b23310aalead me to an old friend twisted pair 19 strand Mil Spec silver on OCC copper PTFE insulation. then overall screen silver on OCC copper with PTFE sleeve. hey i thought i know that stuff. it's the same cable that WAD used to sell and i remember it being pretty darn good especially for the Dosh. it arrived this morning so I'm going to knock a pair of IC's up for comparison to the MK1. oh yes price is a little over £1 a foot so pretty reasonable. could be good for your phones Strokeyblokey. I'll post once I've had a listen take care
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 13:45:51 GMT
Hi Shaun, that was my link that you posted for the guitar pick up cable. I used it to recable my Grado's and it sounded great. I think it took a little of the edge off the Grado's though , which is no bad thing I take it this is not the cable you are talking about though, can you give a link to the one you reckon was similar to the one WAD used? I have a lot of respect for their products. BTW, John at Navships is a good guy to do business with , good comms and his prices are very reasonable, Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 14:59:53 GMT
Hi Shaun, that was my link that you posted for the guitar pick up cable. I used it to recable my Grado's and it sounded great. I think it took a little of the edge off the Grado's though , which is no bad thing I take it this is not the cable you are talking about though, can you give a link to the one you reckon was similar to the one WAD used? I have a lot of respect for their products. BTW, John at Navships is a good guy to do business with , good comms and his prices are very reasonable, Jeff Hi Mr Bluesboy sorry for miss crediting the link and I've amended accordingly. it was waaaay to early for me. OK I'll try to find that link and here it is www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Pickup-Shielded-Silver-Teflon-Wire-3-cond-15-ft-/230622957738?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item35b23310aa&clk_rvr_id=317825869304as i say identical to the IC that WAD used to sell and also great for internal signal hook up wire. i'm just listening now and mmmmmmmm it's just as good as i remember. i'll post some more thoughts and pictures soooon i have a few meters spare if you'd care for a listen. PM me take care
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 15:14:20 GMT
I bought it with DIN connectors but later converted it to RCA (with Nutrik plugs) but in doing so I used a 2 HOT and 1 COLD configuration but didnt really applying any logic to that decision, so I was wondering whether you did? And (apart from cost) why 3 and not 4 wires? I would be very interested in that Chord Rumour clone - did you also find the RS information regarding the cable?? Hi adespade sorry some catching up to do OK good question on the hot cold and my thinking was (is) to create a solid 0V connection. (which is just as important if not more so as the signal side) but I've not tried the other way 2 hot 1 cold which may work just as well. on the speaker cable I'll see if i can dig up a link for that. take care
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 3:45:25 GMT
Hi Shaun, that was my link that you posted for the guitar pick up cable. I used it to recable my Grado's and it sounded great. I think it took a little of the edge off the Grado's though , which is no bad thing I take it this is not the cable you are talking about though, can you give a link to the one you reckon was similar to the one WAD used? I have a lot of respect for their products. BTW, John at Navships is a good guy to do business with , good comms and his prices are very reasonable, Jeff Hi Mr Bluesboy sorry for miss crediting the link and I've amended accordingly. it was waaaay to early for me. OK I'll try to find that link and here it is www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Pickup-Shielded-Silver-Teflon-Wire-3-cond-15-ft-/230622957738?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item35b23310aa&clk_rvr_id=317825869304as i say identical to the IC that WAD used to sell and also great for internal signal hook up wire. i'm just listening now and mmmmmmmm it's just as good as i remember. i'll post some more thoughts and pictures soooon i have a few meters spare if you'd care for a listen. PM me take care Hi Shaun, We're talking about the same cable Reading your post I thought you meant you had followed my link and then, after looking round the site some more, had found the cable that WAD used. But you mean the cable you were talking about was the actual cable I linked to. Thanks for your offer of a few metres to try, thats very kind. However, the original lot I bought came in a 15 foot length and since I only used around 8 foot to recable my Grados ( I have modded them to single entry) I have plenty left to make up an IC to try it in that configuration. It certainly sounded nice as a headphone cable and I may just get another lot to recable some other cans. BTW, reading your excellent tutorial on braiding cables it struck me you could dispense with having to use a MM by making small marks on the ends of the cable covering with indelible CD marking pen. Then when you come to strip them prior to soldering you can see which one(s) are hot without having to use a MM. This would only really work if you were twisting 1 metre lengths at a time though. Just a thought Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 9:31:04 GMT
Hi Shaun, We're talking about the same cable Reading your post I thought you meant you had followed my link and then, after looking round the site some more, had found the cable that WAD used. But you mean the cable you were talking about was the actual cable I linked to. Thanks for your offer of a few metres to try, thats very kind. However, the original lot I bought came in a 15 foot length and since I only used around 8 foot to recable my Grados ( I have modded them to single entry) I have plenty left to make up an IC to try it in that configuration. It certainly sounded nice as a headphone cable and I may just get another lot to recable some other cans. BTW, reading your excellent tutorial on braiding cables it struck me you could dispense with having to use a MM by making small marks on the ends of the cable covering with indelible CD marking pen. Then when you come to strip them prior to soldering you can see which one(s) are hot without having to use a MM. This would only really work if you were twisting 1 metre lengths at a time though. Just a thought Jeff Hi Jeff I've been a little hooked up with the Class A build so at a loose end i just surfed through the ebay wire offerings and arrived at the same wire as you. but as you say they are identical to your link. i have some of the old WAD cables here and your linked wire is identical to what i had from them. So yesterday i had a listening session with the new cable between pre and power and IMHO in my system it sounded a little bright and forward for my taste. mmm interesting i don't remember it sounding like that but I've only used it with tubes in the past. OK i made up another pair and swapped out the solid core silvers i had between DAC and pre. i used a pseudo balanced configuration. one hot, one cold and the screen connected at one end only. yup much better and more even sounding. I'm not sure that cables have a sound and prefer to think of them in terms of how much or little they get in the way of the music. I've been pretty impressed so far and for the cash these cables punch well above their weight. have you tried them as IC's yet? I'll spend a little more time with them and then post a more detailed view. on the cable braiding. thanks for describing it as a tutorial but i really intended it to be more of a starting place for discussion. there are many ways to make cables and lots of good designs on the web so if anyone has ideas I'd love to hear about them. the way you outlined is just fine (many ways to skin a cat). i use a MM just from habit and no more than that. for me the point is that it's easy to experiment with cables and cheap[ too. with not very much effort (took me about the same time as to make a bacon sandwich to make these IC's and i know because that's what i did) and a little patience great results can be had. my first trip into DIY was making my own cables and well once bitten forever smitten. i was trying to find a nice name for the MK2's oh yes i know I'll call them the ''Bluesboys'' nice name don't you think? take care
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 9:57:36 GMT
oh yes i know I'll call them the ''Bluesboys'' nice name don't you think? take care Thats it, I'VE ARRIVED!! I've got a cable named after me ;D Funnily enough I haven't made them up as IC's yet but I absolutely will now Bluesboys - I love it. I'll have to see if I can set up as a distributor in the U.K. for John at Navships in the U.S. I can imagine the marketing blurb now . . . Bluesboys . . . not just for Blues, but Jazz and Rock too. ;D Obviously I would have to charge at least £50 a foot . . . but of course I would give a discount to RG members. Jeff
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