Basic Foobar configuration (1st&2nd posts)

[XTRProf]

Ok, Javier, HDCD issue solved as directed. I got mixed up between the old program Status Bar as jpeged above and the actual one as shown by you.

Now after installing the latest Sox resampler, I'm getting hanging again from Wifi N play back. Wow, that Sox resampler is very taxing on the Wifi network than the embedded resampler that comes with the Foolbar.

[XTRProf]

Btw, I found out that dynamic range dll and sacd plugin also have known crash problems with Foolbar. What's the latest plugin for those with lesser crash? Mine is 1.1.1 and 0.4.0 respectively.

[Deleted]

I don't think SOX affects networking in anyway though it can tax the CPU.
The latest SACD plugin is 0.5.11. The dynamic range one you have is the latest. Using 64bit OS with 32bit software can sometimes cause trouble. IMHO while very useful in some server roles, there is no need for 64bit in the desktop.

[XTRProf]

Javier,


You are right! Check the network usage and not more than 3%. Installed the latest SACD plugin and now as stable as previous. Come to think of when the playlist test files hang, it was at the DSD file. I think the switching between PCM and DSD somewhat destabilise the Foolbar.

Now again a somewhat Wifi N hirez computer audio happy bunny again until I have done ALL the Wifi and wired optimisation. Will take sometime as haven't bought a switch with all those needed criteria yet and waiting for niece to pick one up for me in HK in her December holiday there if she can find what I want.

[XTRProf]

Btw, I somewhat remember that you wrote only the Twisted Pear Sabre 32 can do DSD and PCM to 384-32 and multichannel? Do it thru what interface? HDMI, SPDIF, i2S or USB?

Time to read up more on this if have the time as no $$ yet.

[Deleted]

ATM the only way to do all you ask (DSD, 24/352 and Mch) is to get a EXA2UI USB adapter to feed a BIII DAC with 3 x stereo I/V boards. You can forget about it until you find a well paid job because a system like that with all highest grade options (power supplies, regulators, case, etc.) will cost well over 1,000 USD, maybe even over 1,500USD depending on you level of OCD.

[XTRProf]

Jul 13, 2012 6:38:28 GMT @javier said:

ATM the only way to do all you ask (DSD, 24/352 and Mch) is to get a EXA2UI USB adapter to feed a BIII DAC with 3 x stereo I/V boards. You can forget about it until you find a well paid job because a system like that with all highest grade options (power supplies, regulators, case, etc.) will cost well over 1,000 USD, maybe even over 1,500USD depending on you level of OCD.

Gulp, spoilt spot! Money too much anyway, KIV.

Job, job, where is my money, man!

[XTRProf]

Javier,

Is there a 6.1 or better still 7.1 plugin converter to stereo? In the Foobar only have a 5.1 to stereo converter and I can't play a 6.1 without jerkiness in the output. I need that for playing via my LT and DT stereo speakers or HP. Obviously if streamed to an outboard 7.1 decoder, there will be no more such a problem.

Thanks.

[Deleted]

Not as native plugin I'm afraid.
Most probably you'll need to install the VST plugin and then look for a 64bit VST module down the matrix conversion. The only problem is that some VST libraries can be real CPU hogs and, by what you have written in this thread, it looks as if your PC's CPU is not too powerful.
Aside from BD rips, where could you find 6.1 (DVD?) and 7.1 material?
As I don't have a MCh system, heck not even stereo speaker system for that matter, I've never bothered with anything other than stereo. DVD-A and SACD never go beyond 5.1

BTW, are you using SOX? could I ask why?

[XTRProf]

Jul 14, 2012 6:59:55 GMT @javier said:

Not as native plugin I'm afraid.
Most probably you'll need to install the VST plugin and then look for a 64bit VST module down the matrix conversion. The only problem is that some VST libraries can be real CPU hogs and, by what you have written in this thread, it looks as if your PC's CPU is not too powerful.

Hmm, ok, thanks for the VST pointer. I will look for it. CPU power is more than enough.


DT i7-860
LT i5-2410M

Jul 14, 2012 6:59:55 GMT @javier said:

Aside from BD rips, where could you find 6.1 (DVD?) and 7.1 material?
As I don't have a MCh system, heck not even stereo speaker system for that matter, I've never bothered with anything other than stereo. DVD-A and SACD never go beyond 5.1

Actually, I was playing Claire Martin's Secret Love DSD album and Foobar shows 6 channels and was freezing and hanging. The stereo DSD was A-Ok.

Curious. So you hearing thru HP only?

Jul 14, 2012 6:59:55 GMT @javier said:

BTW, are you using SOX? could I ask why?

Oh, no computer AV setup fully yet. So output thru internal soundcard with a Realtek chip for the DT and a IDT, I think, chip for the LT which can only do until 96-24. So anything at more than 96-24, like those 192-24 and 352-24, have to be downsampled to 96-24 or else no sound. I prefer upsampling but no choice here until I have modified my dac with an USB input to do 192-24. 352 and 384-24 or 32 and DSD stereo and multichannel will be my next dac. It seems only Twisted Pear Sabre 32 can do it at a more sanely price.

[Deleted]

Why don't you configure the DSD plugin to only show stereo tracks? just select stereo in the "preferable area" drop down list (see post #2 in first page of this thread)

Those CPUs should be more than enough, I'm currently using an i3 2100 and never had any problem. My other desktop PC has also an i7 860 but wastes too much electricity for plain web browsing and music listening so I left it for HTPC/gaming roles.

The Realteks are not the best out there, that is for sure, though many will claim they are more than adecuate. A Musiland 03US will handle up to 32/384 (no DSD) and won't break the bank until you find a job, it may not be the best out there but it is much better than the Realteks and being USB you can use it on both PCs.

[Deleted]

A very interesting comment of Foobar's DSD plugin creator (M. Anisiutskin) on how the DSD->PCM conversion works inside his plugin depending on selected mode and output sample rate:

=================================================


1. Multistage converter uses two kinds of chained blocks: DSD2PCM 8x, 16x
decimators and PCM2PCM 2x decimators. Conversion chains for different
samplerates are:

DSD64:
352800: DSD2PCM-8x
176400: DSD2PCM-8x -> PCM2PCM-2x
88200: DSD2PCM-8x -> PCM2PCM-2x -> PCM2PCM-2x
44100: DSD2PCM-16x -> PCM2PCM-2x -> PCM2PCM-2x

DSD128:
352800: DSD2PCM-16x
176400: DSD2PCM-16x -> PCM2PCM-2x
88200: DSD2PCM-16x -> PCM2PCM-2x -> PCM2PCM-2x
44100: DSD2PCM-16x -> PCM2PCM-2x -> PCM2PCM-2x -> PCM2PCM-2x

2. Direct converter does in one step with DSD2PCM 8x-64x (depends on what
samplerate is needed) except 44100 case when additional PCM2PCM-2x is used
to lower 88200.

3. All the multistage and direct converters use the same filter
coefficients (they are integer) and PCM output for different precisions can
be compared in sound editor. I didn't do this. An easy homework for the
interested ones:)

4. If sound equipment doesn't alias high frequency noise I'd use floating
point multistage. If it does then floating point direct. Haven't heard
about a reason to use double yet.

[XTRProf]

Jul 14, 2012 8:07:20 GMT @javier said:

Why don't you configure the DSD plugin to only show stereo tracks? just select stereo in the "preferable area" drop down list (see post #2 in first page of this thread)

Actually, I did. But there are albums with just 6 multichannesl alone and no stereo togather. So back to square one.

Jul 14, 2012 8:07:20 GMT @javier said:

Those CPUs should be more than enough, I'm currently using an i3 2100 and never had any problem. My other desktop PC has also an i7 860 but wastes too much electricity for plain web browsing and music listening so I left it for HTPC/gaming roles.

Talking about CPU, I wanted a Mac Mini (repesenting Apple OS) as one of the varied PC for just pure AV and gaming. It seems now I need an i7 there, But the version with i7 is with the Lion server OS. What say you? Anything including power efficiency, not practical, etc will be welcomed.

Jul 14, 2012 8:07:20 GMT @javier said:

The Realteks are not the best out there, that is for sure, though many will claim they are more than adecuate. A Musiland 03US will handle up to 32/384 (no DSD) and won't break the bank until you find a job, it may not be the best out there but it is much better than the Realteks and being USB you can use it on both PCs.

Actually I wanted too to buy that Musiland or 2MTech (sorry again as I'm not sure whether I spelled correctly there for the latter) USB to SPDIF converter after somebody here put out a comparator with price of the various converters available out there. But without DSD and multichannel (correct me if I'm wrong) puts me out. Also, since I'm going to acquire a (build or assembled) dac later that can do all those I wanted, why waste money on somethng that I will sell later. I opted out that option. Now without job, that will be KIV indefinitely. If with job, I could have been there within half or a year time.

[XTRProf]

WRT to DSD2PCM, any idea what double precision does in latest Foobar? I know multistage floating point, as it's faster, will be the optimum but double precision?

[Deleted]

have a look at this this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format

What output are you using in Foobar? have you tried the latest WASAPI beta5?

[pagan]

With all the up-sampling and other processing why worry about ASIO or WASAPI?

[XTRProf]

[quote author=javier board=talk thread=7039 post=118520 time=1342263991

]have a look at this this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format

What output are you using in Foobar? have you tried the latest WASAPI beta5?

[/quote]



Would you believe me if I write here WASAPI 2.1. I have not updated Foolbar for sometime as too many updates to keep on following. Hope they have something like Windows Updater and don't need to keep on following everyday.

I wouldn't use any beta version until stabalise is my motto.

[XTRProf]

Yeah, there is no multistage double precision floating point in the latest SACD plugin.

[Deleted]

I use Direct mode with 176.4Khz sampling rate as output and hope someday I can get a true DSD DAC.

BTW, beta 5 works really well with both my soundcards, in fact much better than V 2.1. No crashes or freezes and is compatible with 32bit int/FP output. If a soundcard accepts it, Event mode is best.

[XTRProf]

Jul 14, 2012 11:21:54 GMT pagan said:

With all the up-sampling and other processing why worry about ASIO or WASAPI?

Actually with WASAPI, whether upsampling or not, we can still hear a clear difference between it and DS. Really WASAPI sounds better and more Live.

[XTRProf]

Jul 14, 2012 17:32:39 GMT @javier said:

I use Direct mode with 176.4Khz sampling rate as output and hope someday I can get a true DSD DAC.

Eh, still direct when this was written by the papa? For hirez, most probably there will be no aliasing happening.

4. If sound equipment doesn't alias high frequency noise I'd use floating
point multistage. If it does then floating point direct. Haven't heard
about a reason to use double yet.

Jul 14, 2012 17:32:39 GMT @javier said:

If a soundcard accepts it, Event mode is best.

OMG, another mode and Foolbar learning curve is really steep. What is Event Mode?

[dalethorn]

I use event mode but what really kills me is - #1 bad is Skype, no matter how low the priority it still burps the signal, and #2 is my Macafee security, but that's not so bad. I still haven't set realtime priority on Foobar so maybe that's next.

[XTRProf]

Jul 15, 2012 2:24:36 GMT @dalethorn said:

I use event mode ...

So what you heard in Event Mode as compared to others?

[Deleted]

99.9% of the time I use ASIO because both my soundcards are compatible and system latency is almost 30% lower than WASAPI (can be checked with DPC tool). Also, Xonar is far more stable in ASIO mode than in WASAPI though with beta 5 it is on par, ditto for the Musiland 02.

The advantages of Event mode can be found here:

wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI

I know that can of problem Dale, sometimes some programs when starting they manage to breach even ASIO, which locks very tightly the audio device, and you get to hear a click or a pop.

Chong, if you ever get to build the EXA2UI and Buffalo III combo you will be truly amazed. Though be warned, it is not only expensive, it is also quite complex to build and get working. There are plenty of options for everything, from power supplies to working modes (sync Vs async). Just make sure you don't use a valve output stage, you'll kill the incredible THD and THD-N of the beast

[Deleted]

know that can of problem Dale, sometimes some programs when starting they manage to breach even ASIO, which locks very tightly the audio device, and you get to hear a click or a pop.

Hi Javier
Care to shine a little more light on this subject ?
It can sometimes be a P.I.T.A. on a General Purpose PC, even when using ASIO as you said.

Kind Regards
Alex