Basic Foobar configuration (1st&2nd posts)

[Deleted]

dave

The SACD plugin you link is the same one we've been discussing since the begining of this thread. You can install by placing the dll in the zip in the components folder of Foobar or you can do it from within Foobar using "install" and have the program unzip and move the dll for you.

You won't get a DSD stream from a SPDIF (coaxial) connection so no way to capture it with the M-Audio. Most probably if you use the coaxial out of your NAD player, it will not only convert DSD to PCM but will also downsample to something lowish like 16/44.1 so back to CD resolution. Inserting the Marantz in the chain won't help either bevause even if it accepted DSD over HDMI, the moment you jump again to SPDIF you get the same: conversion plus lowish resolution.

Anyway, the SACD plugin is designed to decode DSD streams and convert to other formats but not to rip, capture or edit.



@chong

I think there are some high end DACs with HDMI inputs though I have no idea if they are DSD compatible through that interface.
In the PC world native computer interfaces like USB are prefered and USB transport adapters are available. Even dCS is proposing a DSD over USB standard.

As to you DIFF file problem, I suspect you have not extracted the file from the zip container. Do they have the .DFF extension or are they .ZIP?


@syd

Seems you have a permissions limitation. Try right clicking the file and select "run as administrator", when asked if you are sure select yes.

[XTRProf]

Oct 4, 2011 7:06:27 GMT @javier said:

@chong

I think there are some high end DACs with HDMI inputs though I have no idea if they are DSD compatible through that interface.
In the PC world native computer interfaces like USB are prefered and USB transport adapters are available. Even dCS is proposing a DSD over USB standard.

I had seen some reports that HDMI jitter is still much higher than SPDIF a few years back. I guess that had been improved by now.

Sometimes quite strange that the receiver world can have hdmi streaming and decoding of DSD and the dac side (meaning higher end) still is not there yet.

Oct 4, 2011 7:06:27 GMT @javier said:

As to you DIFF file problem, I suspect you have not extracted the file from the zip container. Do they have the .DFF extension or are they .ZIP?

Check for your self here:





Anyway, as I had said with DSDIFF Decoder 1.4 installed, problem gone but stuck at 88khz decoding although I had set 176khz setting same as yours as shown earlier. Must investigate further when time is with me. I want to reach your Foobar setup holy grail!

[Deleted]

I had seen some reports that HDMI jitter is still much higher than SPDIF a few years back.

Chong
That is my understanding too. The timing in HDMI is supposed to be biased towards video.Having said that, I found that in my own setup
that Toslink from my Samsung LED TV via HDMI sounded better than direct Toslink from my WD TV Live. My SC DAC has a couple of Inputs that I can switch between.It depends how well HDMI is implemented.
Alex

[XTRProf]

Oct 4, 2011 9:25:34 GMT @sandyk said:

I had seen some reports that HDMI jitter is still much higher than SPDIF a few years back.

Chong
That is my understanding too. The timing in HDMI is supposed to be biased towards video.Having said that, I found that in my own setup
that Toslink from my Samsung LED TV via HDMI sounded better than direct Toslink from my WD TV Live. My SC DAC has a couple of Inputs that I can switch between.It depends how well HDMI is implemented.
Alex

Oh, you have compared. Good to see that hdmi is better sounding than the toslink. Must find some recent measurements for hdmi to check whether the jitter has come down. The last time, it was in the 1000 to 1500+ps vs SPDIF dac of around under 120ps. Nowadays, those highend dacs have gone below 50ps.

[Deleted]

Syd, I'd recoomend you uninstall current drivers from the Control Panel, reboot and then install the linked ones in C-Media panel mode, then renott again and you are done. The difference will be quite big in SQ and most probably all your problems will be gone.

Javier
I have spent quite a bit of time today trying to get that driver to load. It just doesn't work correctly in my PC for whatever reason. It also screws up Asio. 3 screens of death before I gave up!

Anyway, I did load the most recent Asus driver and all is pretty good. It fixed whatever was wrong with Asio4all too. I'm still wondering if DS: S/PDIF Pass-through Device (ASUS Xonar D2X Audio Device) is a direct source to the external dac. It sounds pretty good and is the only source I can find to work with 176.4, don't know why WASAPI etc can't.

Syd

Edit: Asio4all does 176.4 too, now that its working well

[Deleted]

Syd, I've heard some cases like your before due to old Asus drivers failing to uninstall properly. The is a tool for removing driver uninstallation leftovers (.DLLs, folders, .SYSs, registry entries, etc.) but if you succeeded with the latest Asus drivers no point in using it.

If now you are running V. 1794 then you have full ASIO compatibility. No need for ASIO4ALL.

DS is the short for Direct Sound and is theoretically the least good sounding of all possible paths, I'd recommend sticking to WASAPI or ASIO.

Have you added the D2X ASIO virtual device in Foobar? (see under 3.3.1 in 1st page of this thread) until you do it won't show in the available outputs.

If all is well, all resolutions should be available from 16/44.1 through 24/192 to ASIO and WASAPI. SPDIF out could be limited by the DAC at the other end. Have you tried the D2X analogue outs? They are very, very good in ASIO mode.

[Deleted]

author=javier I've heard some cases like your before due to old Asus drivers failing to uninstall properly. The is a tool for removing driver uninstallation leftovers (.DLLs, folders, .SYSs, registry entries, etc.) but if you succeeded with the latest Asus drivers no point in using it.

It would be good to have this for any future reinstalls.

If now you are running V. 1794 then you have full ASIO compatibility. No need for ASIO4ALL.

Asus Asio used to appear, I'd forgotten. Must have got lost with some other experimentation in times past. With all the faffing about today I think I got a bit punch-drunk, its now added and in use with every sound rate playing A1, thanks for the reminder! Life saver, given I'd just paid £40-odd for The Stones in 176.4! I thought I wasn't going to be easily able to play it in Foobar.

I'd recommend sticking to WASAPI or ASIO.

Wasapi still doesn't do 176.4, isn't able to according to a pop-up. No worries Asio is fine!

SPDIF out could be limited by the DAC at the other end. Have you tried the D2X analogue outs? They are very, very good in ASIO mode.

I'm using a Buffalo II at present so no problems there. Its only temporary as its moving back to my music PC so I'll try the Asus output for this m/c then. My other dacs are great but limited to 96.

Thanks again for your help Javier. Eveything is fine now, both easy retrieval of music files and one output for all, great.

Only one weird thing, of no importance, but in the album list box one artist comes up in capitals, yet in any other viewing method its fine. Checked in Tag&Rename and all seems fine. Not to worry, it'll give me something to do tomorrow!

Syd

[Deleted]

Syd,

Her is the link to the driver sweeper download page:

phyxion.net/Driver-Sweeper/Driver-Sweeper/


The card and its drivers both support 88.2 and 176.4 using either WASAPI or ASIO, I have the same card and can certify it. There must be some other problem causing this.

If you have a BII I'd recommend a Lorien's USB adapter like the one Jon has ordered or, if you want higher end, the ExaUI. To make the most of such DAC async USB audio ->I2S is the best route.

[Deleted]

author=javier Syd,

Her is the link to the driver sweeper download page:

phyxion.net/Driver-Sweeper/Driver-Sweeper/

Thanks Javier, I was playing tracks today when the sound suddenly died. Diagnostics indicated a driver failure so I used this sweeper program and had another go at the Uni driver. Second attempt it worked, first time failed, asking for D2X to be plugged in. (It was.)

The card and its drivers both support 88.2 and 176.4 using either WASAPI or ASIO, I have the same card and can certify it. There must be some other problem causing this.

If I select a 176.4 file when playing WASAPI SPDIF Pass through device... the play stops with 'Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 176400 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels' Any tick boxes I see anywhere don't include 176.4 or 88.2. Yet select ASIO Sonar D2X Asio and 176.4 plays.

If you have a BII I'd recommend a Lorien's USB adapter like the one Jon has ordered or, if you want higher end, the ExaUI. To make the most of such DAC async USB audio ->I2S is the best route.

As I said the Buff is only connected to this machine temporarily, I'll be reconnecting the AK Mods MF DacV3 with linear PSU. Modified per Alex's instructions this is an outstanding DAC. Unfortunately 96 max. I take your point about USB. I also have a John Kenny Hiface and it is very impressive. Shaun and Will have both tried it and hold it in high regard. So I see the potential OK.

Syd

[Deleted]

Just a brief public note of appreciation to Javier who accepted my sickly foobar installation (and me ) as pro-bono patients .
He sprinkled a liberal allocation of his time and his special 'fairy dust' all over it and it now behaves as the designer intended, if not better ;D .
Many thanks Javier ,
Dave.

[XTRProf]

Have some time to play with Foobar today as boss is overseas. Compared the Foobar to the VLC and WMP. My preference is the Foobar 1.1.8 > VLC 1.1.11 > WMP 12.0.7601.17514. But for overall player I prefer the VLC as it can play video, Apple aiff as well as 192khz 24 bits whether downsample or not as it still sound close to Foobar for whatever (re)sampling. Also, the interface don't need to configure much to be quite fully functional on first usage.

Btw, is there as many good plugins as Foobar to improve VLC further? Also, how come Foobar and VLC cannot open binaural aif files. Ordinary aif files A-Ok.

[XTRProf]

Eh, I saw MP1 to MP4 in the supported files list except vob, so still can play video for Foobar? If cannot play video, what's the point of installing AC3 and DTS unless we wanted to play DTS Surround CDs which are too rare now with bluray and DVD around.

[XTRProf]

Aug 19, 2011 1:48:39 GMT @sandyk said:

If you search other forums, you will find it is the Holy Grail for some people to convert from an SACD to .wav files etc.

Eh, wouldn't that be double conversion? If DSD, let it stay in DSD. Btw, any reasons from DSD to wav is better after incurring another conversion? Oh, yeah, don't tell me that digital conversion is perfect as it's in an "error free" digital domain crap.

[XTRProf]

Aug 19, 2011 22:15:44 GMT @sandyk said:

If your soundcard has full ASIO support, don't forget to try the more rudimentary "C Play". Through my highly modified MF-X-DAC V3 and Class A HA into the W1000 , it sounds WAY better than Foobar with difficult tracks like "Papa Doo Run Run - California Girls"
which sounds far more relaxing too.

Serious, I will also want to compare it with Foobar, VLC and WMP as I had done the said trio yesterday and come out with a prelim conclusion. Nothing is concrete yet as I firmly believe that we should live with anything for some time before any final conclusion can materialise. Btw, can it play video as well and need to be highly configured like Foobar before it can play to your intention?

[XTRProf]

Aug 19, 2011 23:09:04 GMT @javier said:

Shaun, I've sent you an email with my layout in a zip file. If you like it, unzip it and follow:

File --> Preferences --> Display --> Default User Interface and then on the right pane "import" under Theme Management, find the extracted file from zip, select it and click OK.

I also like it as simple as possible so today, I choose a predefined one as well.

Btw, is that what is meant by being portable. Where can I find the saved theme file in foolbar? I better make a backup copy just in case my PC HD fails.

[Deleted]

Chong, I'm away from home on a work trip. I'll try to answer tomorrow.

[XTRProf]

Oct 11, 2011 10:18:25 GMT @javier said:

Chong, I'm away from home on a work trip. I'll try to answer tomorrow.

Oh, sorry, Javier. Just answer when you ready. Take your time as this is just a hobby.

[Deleted]

Wow Chong, thats a lot of questions...

1) VLC doesn't have any plugins that I know of as is not designed as modular player but a "complete" multimedia one. It is more of a video player than an audio player and doesn't have any "audiophile" pretensions, no WASAPI, NO ASIO, etc.

2) I don't have any AIFF files let alone binaural ones but I cannot see why they oculdn't be played if they are just stereo files recorded using a special head.

3) No, Foobar doesn't play any video, only the audio part of some multimedia files. As is not a multimedia player. Even if they are rare there are still music AC3 and DTS files, Foobar has plugins for some very unsual file types.

4) DSD ideally should be played as DSD but unless you have a way to get it out of the PC and decode it then only way is conversion to PCM. DSD->PCM at 176.4KHz should be a good enough compromise even if not perfect.

5) you heard the expression "jack of all trades, master of none"? if you want an application that does everything probably you'll find it most likely performs second best to speciallised solutions like true video or audio players. If on top of that you want easy to use, it'll, also probably, get worse.
Best apps a seldom easy to sue, think Photoshop, AutoCAD, Premiere, etc.. they are intended for people who want accuracy and control of all process details. Same happens with Foobar to a lesser extent.

[XTRProf]

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

Wow Chong, thats a lot of questions...

Hope I didn't make you wet your pants. You the best guy for Foobar obviously.

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

1) VLC doesn't have any plugins that I know of as is not designed as modular player but a "complete" multimedia one. It is more of a video player than an audio player and doesn't have any "audiophile" pretensions, no WASAPI, NO ASIO, etc.

Thanks. That answered my curiosity and advance +1 to my limited mini computer at the top of my body.

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

2) I don't have any AIFF files let alone binaural ones but I cannot see why they oculdn't be played if they are just stereo files recorded using a special head.

If you are interested to investigate, I can let you have the same binaural aif file to test and see what you think. You have PM.

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

3) No, Foobar doesn't play any video, only the audio part of some multimedia files. As is not a multimedia player. Even if they are rare there are still music AC3 and DTS files, Foobar has plugins for some very unsual file types.

Great! That advance +2 to my understanding. Anyway, I don't intend to have AC3 or DTS files as it's of lossy compression. Why have them when we can have hirez in a relatively cheap NAS?

Btw, for your NAS, you format it to NTSF or FAT32? FAT32 just can save until 4GB file size, right? What's your opinion on the best format?

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

4) DSD ideally should be played as DSD but unless you have a way to get it out of the PC and decode it then only way is conversion to PCM. DSD->PCM at 176.4KHz should be a good enough compromise even if not perfect.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But I'm replying to Alex why some people find converting from DSD iso to wav sounds superior? IMVHO, less conversion, although digital perfect, will always sound superior. Can be heard if hirez enough.

Oct 11, 2011 21:44:30 GMT @javier said:

5) you heard the expression "jack of all trades, master of none"? if you want an application that does everything probably you'll find it most likely performs second best to speciallised solutions like true video or audio players. If on top of that you want easy to use, it'll, also probably, get worse.
Best apps a seldom easy to sue, think Photoshop, AutoCAD, Premiere, etc.. they are intended for people who want accuracy and control of all process details. Same happens with Foobar to a lesser extent.

I'm back. So to reply this. Yes, you are right. It still is now when we compare between a dedicated player with a jack of all trade player in a high enough hirez system. However, that has narrowed with the likes of Oppo and Denon AU-1 (I think. Sorry, can't remember Denon top bluray universal player number insitu. )

PS: Edited 13th October 2011 11:40am Singapore time (GMT +8)

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2011 8:20:26 GMT XTRProf said:

Btw, for your NAS, you format it to NTSF or FAT32? FAT32 just can save until 4GB file size, right? What's your opinion on the best format?

FAT32's only advantage over NTFS would be speed but since for music playing no high speed transfers or low latency is needed I'd say NTFS is safer and more reliable and therefore the recommended one.

[XTRProf]

Oct 12, 2011 8:35:06 GMT @javier said:

FAT32's only advantage over NTFS would be speed but since for music playing no high speed transfers or low latency is needed I'd say NTFS is safer and more reliable and therefore the recommended one.

Thanks for clearing that up for all interested.

Sorry, now you have a real PM regarding the binaural aiff file as I can't do anything yesterday as my boss called me immediately.

[XTRProf]

Aug 20, 2011 1:15:06 GMT @sandyk said:

but nothing wrong with a steep learning curve

Hey Shaun
Try saving that when you are 22 years older !
Alex

Try saving that when you are another 40 years older! Hope you get what I mean.

[XTRProf]

Aug 21, 2011 14:58:52 GMT hifidez said:

Three options here. Select 44100 to downsample to CD red book standard. Or select 88200 or 176400 to preserve the full bandwidth of the DSD tracks. Match this to the original... if you select 176400 when the original is 88200 then a load of background hiss is generated - I don't know why.

Er, as Javier had said, don't do the 176khz unless your dac can do it in PCM. Most dac will be able to do until 96khz 24bits. Otherwise, error message from your Foobar from internal conflict with the dac in the PC.

[XTRProf]

Aug 22, 2011 16:01:58 GMT @javier said:

I found the reason why SACD 0.2.4 was freezing. I had set file buffering way too high. I've changed the value to a more reasonable 60,000KB and it works fine now with far less CPU use. Recommended.

Yup, you are right about the CPU usage. Mine also about 20 to 30% usage for SACD iso. Here with my company's PC as boss is too busy with the project groups to care about me now.







Btw, what buffer size you have problem with? I have it at 300MB (the largest 192khz 24 bits music files I have are < 300MB) and still no problem playing. See picture.

[XTRProf]

Sept 26, 2011 19:25:34 GMT FauDrei said:

Fidelizer 2.1 is working properly on multicore systems (tested on dual core 7x64 SP1). "Fidelizing" foobar2000 with 2.1 (>= audiophile optimization level) brings (again) audible playback improvements. Highly recommended.

I have just downloaded this now, what does it do before installing?


Javier,

Also after installing SOX Resampler, how do I know it's working? Is there any conflict if I install both SOXs?