elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 6, 2011 18:04:55 GMT
Hi Christian, I find the DT 770 bass too much. It's a novelty but eventually it gets to you!! Because of that, I much prefer the ATH a900. It's a more balanced closed headphone imo. Easier to drive and very comfortable. I'll have a DT990 soon so I'll compare it with the K601. So far, I've found the 601 about right for me, but a little more bass wouldn't hurt. I had a DT990 years back and didn't like it at the time. I felt that it was sucked out in the middle and the treble was a little strange. Not toppy but kind of 'shusshy' sounding. However, it seems the newer versions may be better. I look forward to comparing the DT990. If it's similar to HD650 with more extension in the treble, it might be just the job!! Ian Hi Ian, I was out today for some "Beyer hunting"... I had the chance to compare the DT 990 Pro's (250 Ohm), which I already have, and the DT 990 Edition 2005's (250 Ohm). Long story short: Beside the look and the straight cable of the Edition's, which some do prefer, there's almost no real difference beside what Beyer says about the difference between the Pro and the consumer versions: europe.beyerdynamic.com/headphones-headsets/faqs.htmlThe Pro's have a tighter fit, are much more rigid constructed (only a few things are altered but those things do matter here) and sound a tad more aggressive (slightly more bass and treble). I don't feel the Edition's are more comfortable, but they have less pressure. To be honest, I do like Pro's more regarding comfort. IMO they have less pressure – even in new condition – than my HD650's have. The Edition's feel sometimes almost a bit "loose" in comparison. Not big difference though. The sound of the Edition's is slightly more balanced (less bass and treble), but to me they sound almost a bit anemic. I find the Pro's (slightly) more musical. The midrange is really not the speciality of the DT 990's, but in comparison to other headphones (like HD580/650's, HD-660's and K702's) it is not a problem. I've read a lot about the different Beyer variants in the last few days and it really seems that the midrange has improved with the newer models. The DT 990 Edition 2005's (250 Ohm) don't have a better midrange than the Pro's, but the midrange is more noticeable since the bass/treble is a bit less dominant. If you don't care about look or cable differences, I'd go for the DT 990 Pro's (250 Ohm). They offer better VFM and IMO they are (slightly) more musical. The detached metal parts the Edition's have a the beginning of the headband (respectively the end of the metal forks which hold the earcups) are definitely a no-no for me. I think these parts are way to finicky for heavy-duty use. The leatherette headband of the Edition's look more natural than that of the Pro's, but it doesn't feel better. IMO the Pro's offer the overall better comfort and are more rigid (and a lot cheaper). I'm almost sure you'd like the new DT990's if you also like the HD650's. The Pro's are closer to the HD650's IMO. One of the guys in the shop told me that he has tested the DT 990 Edition 2005's with 32 Ohms a while back – he found them awful. I have only heard the 250 Ohm variants. Christian
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 6, 2011 18:37:12 GMT
I think also that the DT 770 Pro's (250 Ohm) have a bit too much bass.
But they do well at low to moderate volumes. I like them exactly for that.
Maybe the filter wad mod from Claus (for the HD-660's) is also something to consider for the DT 770's. I've done this mod already with my HD-660's and I agree with Claus that it is (mostly) beneficial.
I'm a bit hesitant with the DT 770's since they are totally different in the sound signature (but they really are a kind of closed-back DT990's).
I don't care about those (on head-fi or other forums) that say that the DT990's are too coloured. IMO they sound very musical with most music and are quite forgiving headphones (not as forgiving as the HD650's though... these are masters in "forgiving"...).
The real problem with the Beyer is the huge amount of different versions and impedance variants. It makes it hard to decide which way to go. That was certainly one reason why I didn't look closer at the Beyer's for a long time. But now, I'm quite enjoying the diversity of the Beyer's. You really have a choice – many, many choices.
Especially the Pro variants are also bargains for what they deliver. But as usual: It's probably not everybody's cup of tea.
I'm not interested in the 32 or 80 Ohm variants, but beside the 250 Ohm variants, those with 600 Ohm are probably also worth a closer look. 600 Ohm DT 990's are only available as "Edition".
I won't buy other impedance variants of the DT770/990's in the near future. But I look forward for a (possibly) upcoming T90 (T70 is already here and looks like a DT770 successor) or maybe also the T1. I won't buy a T1 soon, they are simply too costly for now. A T90 would get my highest interest. I guess the price range of a T90 would be comparable with that of the T70. The current T70 is also 250 Ohms. That would match fine with my current amps and Beyer headphones.
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crashhot
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Post by crashhot on Jul 6, 2011 20:01:22 GMT
I got a pair of DT 770s from Ian awhile ago almost by chance (I certainly wasn't looking at the time but circumstance transpired and they ended up in my possession) and, no word of a lie, they are almost the only headphone I've been using (apart from some ultimate ears triplefi 10 IEMs for the iPod) ever since he sent them to me.
I never use my AKG701s any more and I'm just weighing up whether I should get some DT 1350's because I like the 770 so much I figure the more expensive ones must be even better? The moral of the story is don't take headphones from a rabbit, it will cost you a fortune in the long run! ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 20:06:19 GMT
Thanks Christian,
Your comments are interesting and I think you know my tastes in sound too! I really do like the HD650 except for the 'shut in' feel that you get because it can be a bit murky. I love its bass but I have a problem with its treble response. For me, orchestral strings sound wrong. They're just not feathery enough.
The Audio Technicas do strings really well but can be a bit lacking in bass! (My favourite is the a900)
As you say, if the DT990 delivers the Senn bass (possibly lower too) but more open at the top, I'll be a happy bunny,
K601 is one of the best for me so far, It feels pretty flat and even but a bit more bass wouldn't go amiss. I tried the bass boost on the Fiio e11 with them and it is really effective. The Fiio bass boost is very low so you don't get a mid bass hump. It's lower down.
I know that you didn't like the Neco bass boost and it's likely that's because it was too high up in frequency. The Fiio one is excellent and it makes the K601 jump into life.
If the DT990 delivers that kind of bass without boost and more treble than the HD650 and sounds 'open' it may be a nice listen.
I'll have one soon so I'll do some comparing.
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 6, 2011 22:04:08 GMT
I got a pair of DT 770s from Ian awhile ago almost by chance (I certainly wasn't looking at the time but circumstance transpired and they ended up in my possession) and, no word of a lie, they are almost the only headphone I've been using (apart from some ultimate ears triplefi 10 IEMs for the iPod) ever since he sent them to me. I never use my AKG701s any more and I'm just weighing up whether I should get some DT 1350's because I like the 770 so much I figure the more expensive ones must be even better? The moral of the story is don't take headphones from a rabbit, it will cost you a fortune in the long run! ;-) The DT770 is a piece of class.... your ears are NOT wrong Pinkie.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 6:59:30 GMT
The moral of the story is don't take headphones from a rabbit, it will cost you a fortune in the long run!I'm really glad you like them. I always worry that I've given someone a bum steer. Also, our ears are all different. Don't worry about what we all say. I still have a DT770 pro at home as well. I use them a lot for certain genres to take advantage of that bass. It's a perfectly good headphone and we're like a crowd of nannies discussing the weather. The BBC use the DT770 a lot at Radio 2. They really reckon them and the build/comfort are absolutely superb for long listening sessions. I've become a multi-headphone listener if I'm honest. One just doesn't do everything for me. K701/K601/HD650/HD600/HD250 (on loan from Mike/HD25/AT ad700/AT a900/AT a500/ DT770 pro/(soon- a DT990 pro), Grado sr125i/Grado 80i plus whatever else I find around in the house. I can claim the tax back I suppose. Truth is, one just doesn't do it for me. One reason is the hugely wide variation of music that I deal with/listen to. I literally listen to chamber music up to orchestral, rock/pop/rap/electronic/ craptronic, speech as well as combined speech and music on radio. All coming from really poor quality sources as well as really high quality sources, so I have a huge variation of options. DT 770 ranks up there so don't feel we're running it down. We're like a bunch of old ladies doing the knitting. It's a perfectly good headphone and is one of the best built in the business!! (It's those Germans!!!) If you move to another headphone, you'll notice the bass missing straight away!!!! You'll tend to find everything else sounds mean and thin. I'm very aware that it's easy to read what we say and take things as gospel which gives you doubts about your own headphones, but yours are perfectly good. (They were also brand new ready to be burned in for a studio) but I had loads of others too!!! (I'm such a greedy piglet!!) Too much money to waste. btw - I've often wondered how you felt about them; especially moving from Grados and thought you'd gone!! Triple fi's are nice. I also use Klipsch X8/X10 and Senn ie8. They're good too. Good to read from you again. I am VERY curious about DT1350. Heluva price for a portable though. Maybe a few of us should club together and buy one - each person keep it for a couple of weeks and send on to the next and then leave it with Mike as a reference at the end!! If ten were interested, it would cost £10 to try it. 20 = £5.00. That way, we'd all know what we were letting ourselves in for. Mike could then place it in the Scottish vault for antique hi fi, available for viewing except for Tuesdays. (It would also help him to run RG if he sold it) Ian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 11:34:43 GMT
Hi Christian, The DT990 arrived at work and first impression is they are really good!! Not as I remember the old version (in my mind at least) The old one I had years ago seemed dull in comparison to what I'm hearing from these. It makes me wonder whether I must have had a duff pair if I'm honest. The ones I had seemed a bit lifeless in the treble and too weighty. Kind of similar to the DT770 without the treble. I just listened quickly on the DT990 to some Gerswhin and they are nice and crystal up top (not like my old pair) and the bass kicks in really quite deep. Thuds on bass drum and timps are powerful but they don't dominate as much as the dt770. Good inner clarity too. Surprising because from what I'd read, they were supposed to have mids sucked away and have a classic 'u' shape FR. They probably do have a slight curve upwards at either end but not overly so and are very musical sounding. Lots of punch and sparkle. They seem a good compromise between the 'perceived' depth of the HD650 and the treble of the K701. They definitely have depth and there is a shimmer on strings which is rather nice. I'll have to give them a good blast now for a couple of weeks and I'll compare with the K601. Instant feelings are that the DT990 has more sparkle up top and more 'whack' in the bass. As you said, similar to DT770 but more 'open' with a tad less bass. Thanks for the shove. They seem to be much better than I remember!! PS - there also seems to be a good front to back image. It's very obvious in acoustic stuff how far back they are. I'm also hearing two different types of mic that were used on a recording I'm listening to. I have this recording of a piano concerto where the orchestra was recorded with overhead mics as 'normal' so you get a good sense of the space, but the solo piano was close mic'ed with different types of mic and it's just not in the same room as the orchestra when you listen via the Beyers which really point it out. (It's fine on speakers though) A little surprise for me listening on the 990!! Also, they need a hefty amp!!! I wonder if this is the problem with the DT770. They really need power behind them to get them in control. The DT990 sounds really awful straight from an ipod. Mine startes to distort when trying to drive them so they're a bit insensitive. One other thing - they are quite sensitive to where you put them on your head. It affects the amount of treble you hear quite a bit if you push them forward (and down) a bit. This may mean that different people are indeed going to hear different things from it depending on the shape of their heads. They warm my ears up a bit too. I need air conditioning or I'm a 'hothead'. I'm going to enjoy these....... Ian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 15:10:08 GMT
Just got home and plugged it into the V8 with the new version of the Little Pinkie.
Talk about bass slam!! It's huge on these. You can hear that it has a similarity with the DT770. Ian Dury is just thundering through these.
Still got a good image but the impact is quite huge. Now I can really hear the bass lift. (Didn't get as much at work but that was on a crappy computer)
You're spot on Christian. It's got a lot in common with the HD650 with that bass but it has more 'shimmer'. Actually listening to the 'ride' cymbal on Dury's last album is terrific. You hear the wood attack on the cymbal and then the shimmer afterwards.
It's strange how the DT770 has that enormous bass and that sound is almost as strong in the dt990 (a bit more open sounding) but it completely vanishes with the DT880. The DT880 has bass but nothing like the quantity of the 770 and 990.
All three in the same 'family' but the DT880 is the odd one out in terms of bass impact. The DT150 has the same bass impact (with less treble) and I remember a small headphone that I had from Beyer (DT250?) which also showed that bass slam.
I wonder what was going on with the DT880?
This is an appealing headphone.
Ian
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 7, 2011 23:00:23 GMT
I am glad to see all the love for the AKG cans. Having owned or listen to most of their high end cans (not the tesla) my favorite is the DT880 250 ohm circa 2003. I missed its sound and comfort.
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Post by clausdk on Jul 8, 2011 0:15:52 GMT
The bass in DT880 are totally dependent on the pads in use, with the right pads the bass is amazing, my favorite is the pads from fisher audio FA002...
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2011 1:05:56 GMT
Try these with your DT 990 Pro's... Really plenty of bass for half-open headphones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2011 6:42:32 GMT
Did a lot of listening last night. It certainly has plenty of bass but it does bring a lot of music to life because of it.
I tried all sorts of stuff and they seem to be quite good all round. Orchestral stuff gains a lot of presence. Double basses can be a bit strong on some recordings and the timps rumble like thunder but you still get a good treble from them.
Shpongle stuff is amazing. You hear the lower bass riffs and accents much more clearly so you sometimes get two rhythms overlapping each other. You almost 'feel' the bass. You're not so aware of that on the K601 when the secondary riffs are in the bass. It's there but not so focused.
Mens' speech is a little boomy. However, the same stuff wasn't that good on the K601 either. Speech points out a lift somewhere in the upper bass perhaps. Especially close mic'ed speech. (Although BBC radio speech isn't that good to be honest on DAB)
It picks up DAB artifacts easily as well!!
I also did some reading on them. Some guys are report that the bass recedes a little with time. Whether it really does or whether it's just them adjusting, I don't know.
The other curious thing is the SE edition. Some reporting less on the extremes while others can't hear any difference!!
If there is no difference, then the DT990 has to be another bargain buy imo. Very appealing sound that brings the guts of the music out with ease.
They are kind of like the hd650 with treble.
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crashhot
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Post by crashhot on Jul 8, 2011 13:20:02 GMT
Ian,
No you didn't steer me wrong, as I said before, the 770s are just about the only ones I use at the moment, I really like them but I am very tempted by the 1350s, not sure the wife agrees though which is why I would have to sell my AKG 701's to even attempt to buy some (although I know where there is a good second-hand pair I am very tempted by).
The market is a bit dead for second-hand headphones at the moment so I don't think I will get the chance but I like your idea, I'd be in for £10.
The reason I haven't been around much is because we got a new addition to the family nine months ago and, although headphones are a good thing, I haven't really had much time to converse (or that much spare money to blow on hi-fi knickknacks, although thankfully that's getting better).
The thing is, I'm not that good at describing what I'm hearing, the best I can usually do is "I really like this" as opposed to "the base does so-and-so & the treble is so-and-so etc etc", it's a little intimidating to have conversations when you can't converse properly if you see what I mean?
Anyway, I am a lurker here and, when I persuade the Mrs I do look out for what you guys say regarding certain headphones, the problem I have is I need more sets of ears as she doesn't believe I use enough of them to warrant any new pairs!
BTW, the triple fi headphones were really good, I got them brand-new for £99, I was very pleased :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2011 15:12:32 GMT
Oh congratulations!! I have a 26 year old daughter as well as a 5 year old. (and a couple of others!!!) The 5 year old went and punched someone at school yesterday, so she's in the dog house with her teachers and I might have to go up there to see them ....... The DY770 is a keeper. So is the 990. Christian was right about them. Lovely headphone. I also like the accuracy of the K601. I have so many of the damned things, it's just a matter of what's closest at hand when I'm sitting down now. I am curious about the dt1350 but it's quite a bit to just spend and find out you might not like them. I'm starting to find I use certain headphones more than others now as well. I have gone off the K701 sound as well. I've tried so hard with it and tried matching amps so that the sound gets more 'nourished' but it has never got exactly where I'd have liked it. Problem is, once you find weaknesses, you tend to focus on them and then it's time to use something else and come back later. I prefer the K601 to the K701 without a doubt. It's just a bit more civilised in the treble and is a tad darker. I'm kind of prefering the dt990 to the HD650 too if I'm honest. It's the added brightness that I like where the Senns are darker. Anyway, I'm glad you get on with the DT770. They're a good headphone. Christian - nice tracks. They rattled my teeth. I quite like the Arabian girl. That first track was unbelievably low. Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 8, 2011 19:32:30 GMT
What is it with the DT-990.... there seems to be quite a few versions... the DT-990 Pro, DT-990 "premium"... a 32 ohm version, a 250 ohm version a 600 ohm version etc. etc. etc. I believe the DT-990 "pro" has been discontinued and is now replaced by the DT-990 "premium" and the premium comes at a "premium" price too.... So, what's going down with these? Who has what version and what sounds best?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 8, 2011 19:38:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2011 19:42:20 GMT
Same goes for DT770, Mike. Not nice is it?
I've read all kinds of reports saying that the DT990 premium is a little flatter than the DT990 pro which has more sucked out mids (they say) The pro comes with a coiled cord and the DT990 is straight. The Pro is tighter on your head.
However, there are other people who can't hear too much difference between the DT990 (pro) and the DT990 Premium.
I suppose the Premium is also prettier.
The Pro has a slight 'U' shape response and is more open sounding than the DT770. It's also not as 'thick' sounding in the bass as the DT770's.
Mind you, I've also read that the DT990 has MORE bass on one site, which it hasn't.
Just shows - No one seems to agree!!
My feeling is that the DT990 is quite like a speaker sound. I think it uses the idea of diffusing sound like the Senns but has a sharper treble with a hint of that DT770 bass. (Not as potent)
It seems to be good at both soft and loud volume. In fact, I find it quite difficult to find a 'focused' volume and sometimes play it incredibly loud without realising. It's just as focused to my ears at very low volume too. There's not what I would call an 'optimum' level like you get with many headphones.
DT990 is a good price for the sound.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2011 19:49:34 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 8, 2011 20:56:44 GMT
Same goes for DT770, Mike. Not nice is it? I've read all kinds of reports saying that the DT990 premium is a little flatter than the DT990 pro which has more sucked out mids (they say) The pro comes with a coiled cord and the DT990 is straight. The Pro is tighter on your head. However, there are other people who can't hear too much difference between the DT990 (pro) and the DT990 Premium. I suppose the Premium is also prettier. The Pro has a slight 'U' shape response and is more open sounding than the DT770. It's also not as 'thick' sounding in the bass as the DT770's. Mind you, I've also read that the DT990 has MORE bass on one site, which it hasn't. Just shows - No one seems to agree!! My feeling is that the DT990 is quite like a speaker sound. I think it uses the idea of diffusing sound like the Senns but has a sharper treble with a hint of that DT770 bass. (Not as potent) It seems to be good at both soft and loud volume. In fact, I find it quite difficult to find a 'focused' volume and sometimes play it incredibly loud without realising. It's just as focused to my ears at very low volume too. There's not what I would call an 'optimum' level like you get with many headphones. DT990 is a good price for the sound. Ian Too much choice for me Ian...... I think they need to introduce a Beyer DT-990 JOAT ....... I will buy one of those
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 9, 2011 5:19:27 GMT
That bass boost was blatant. Never heard my 'phones go that low. But is was way too much. Kind of earthquake simulator on my head. Now, without the bass boost, the BOSSFET V2.1 is as lovely as the MOSFET V2 was... and it's better. The dual PSU's of the BOSSFET do a much better job. Double the power as with the V2 and according to Neco, it's about three times as much as the amp needs. It should be plenty power. The V2.1 sounds almost like a V2 that has something like a Little Pinkie as PSU. On the other hand, that means that the V2 is a bit lacking in the power department (half the power as the V2.1). Glad you like them! I've tested mostly with the Neco's so far. The MOSFET/BOSSFET amps have no problem to drive the DT990 Pro's. My Neco Portable V2's have also no problem to drive them (even that with gain 3 and linear pot), but I have to crank up the volume on the iPod Touch quite high. All Neco's seem to be a good choice with the Pro version (which is only available with 250 Ohms). Especially the MOSFET/BOSSFET with AD8610 is a perfect match with them. That's also the case with the HD650's (which have 300 Ohms). The low output impedance of the Neco's is beneficial here. I have no problems with that and the DT990's. I feel more comfortable than with the HD650's. The round pads feel less claustrophobic and the pressure is dispersed better. 770's are closed-back, 880's are (totally) open and 990's are half-open. Probably the 990's are quite closed for half open 'phones. Yes, Claus, the pads make a real difference. I don't have the 880's, but I've tested the Superlux HD-660's with Beyer softskin and velours pads and the differences are striking. Often, velours pads sound better and have more bass (like the K240 velours pads for example), but that's not the case with the Beyer pads. The velours are very comfortable and sound quite "open", while the softskin pads give much better isolation (still with good comfort) and therefore also better bass (but more rolled off heighs). I don't have the textile and gel pads that Beyer also offers in the needed size, but at least the gel pads are regarded to have the best seal and even deeper bass than with the softskin pads. What about using the 880's with gel pads? BTW: I've found some information about the gel pads (see links below). It seems that these pads are only available over the "Manufaktur" selling channel ("Manufaktur" are the Beyer 'phones that are available in custom colours). I'll try to get a pair of clear gel pads. The black gel pads got some back feedback, they seem to have a surface that is not really comfortable. www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/266192/beyerdynamic-manufaktur-s-gooey-gel-ear-seals-770-880-990www.rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=review&action=display&thread=4275www.flickr.com/photos/zyphaz/4969437087/europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/accessories/ohrmuschelsatz.htmlI can imagine that the bass recedes with time. Probably because the pressure of the spring steel headband is loosening up after some time. I guess my DT 990's Pro's (250 Ohm) could sound after 2-3 years somewhere in between a new Pro and the DT 990 Edition 2005's (also with 250 Ohm). IMO that would be perfect. I can't live with the imagination that the DT 990 Edition 2005's, that sit already rather loose on the head, will loose up even more. SE version? Do you mean the DT 990 Edition 2005's? As you long as you compare the variants with the same impedance, the Pro versions are exactly the same as the Edition versions. The Editions have less clamping force than the Pro's and they have another look. The Pro's are the tougher headphones, designed for heavy-duty use in studios. I have a link about this (from the Beyer hompage) a few posts above. Here is a quote from this link: IMO Beyer says the truth. I had the chance to compare both the DT 990 Pro's and they DT 990 Edition 2005's. Both with 250 Ohm drivers: Hi Ian, I was out today for some "Beyer hunting"... I had the chance to compare the DT 990 Pro's (250 Ohm), which I already have, and the DT 990 Edition 2005's (250 Ohm). Long story short: Beside the look and the straight cable of the Edition's, which some do prefer, there's almost no real difference beside what Beyer says about the difference between the Pro and the consumer versions: europe.beyerdynamic.com/headphones-headsets/faqs.htmlThe Pro's have a tighter fit, are much more rigid constructed (only a few things are altered but those things do matter here) and sound a tad more aggressive (slightly more bass and treble). I don't feel the Edition's are more comfortable, but they have less pressure. To be honest, I do like Pro's more regarding comfort. IMO they have less pressure – even in new condition – than my HD650's have. The Edition's feel sometimes almost a bit "loose" in comparison. Not big difference though. The sound of the Edition's is slightly more balanced (less bass and treble), but to me they sound almost a bit anemic. I find the Pro's (slightly) more musical. The midrange is really not the speciality of the DT 990's, but in comparison to other headphones (like HD580/650's, HD-660's and K702's) it is not a problem. I've read a lot about the different Beyer variants in the last few days and it really seems that the midrange has improved with the newer models. The DT 990 Edition 2005's (250 Ohm) don't have a better midrange than the Pro's, but the midrange is more noticeable since the bass/treble is a bit less dominant. If you don't care about look or cable differences, I'd go for the DT 990 Pro's (250 Ohm). They offer better VFM and IMO they are (slightly) more musical. The detached metal parts the Edition's have a the beginning of the headband (respectively the end of the metal forks which hold the earcups) are definitely a no-no for me. I think these parts are way to finicky for heavy-duty use. The leatherette headband of the Edition's look more natural than that of the Pro's, but it doesn't feel better. IMO the Pro's offer the overall better comfort and are more rigid (and a lot cheaper). I'm almost sure you'd like the new DT990's if you also like the HD650's. The Pro's are closer to the HD650's IMO. One of the guys in the shop told me that he has tested the DT 990 Edition 2005's with 32 Ohms a while back – he found them awful. I have only heard the 250 Ohm variants. Christian They are more musical than the Senn's. But I like both very much. At the moment, I prefer (too) the DT 990 Pro's. I've heard both the Pro and Edition variant of the 990's (both with 250 Ohms). The mids are NOT sucked out more with the Pro's, but the bass and treble is more emphasised. The Edition variants do IMO not sound better (it's the same driver!), but they are really a bit flatter with the bass and the treble. The look is a question of taste, but at least one thing is clear: The Pro's are really built tougher and they are a lot cheaper. The Edition's are still great headphones, but the Pro's do at least equal for a much lower price. What is it with the DT-990.... there seems to be quite a few versions... the DT-990 Pro, DT-990 "premium"... a 32 ohm version, a 250 ohm version a 600 ohm version etc. etc. etc. I believe the DT-990 "pro" has been discontinued and is now replaced by the DT-990 "premium" and the premium comes at a "premium" price too.... So, what's going down with these? Who has what version and what sounds best? It's not so complicated with the current DT 990 product line: There's the Pro version, only available with 250 Ohm: europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/studio-and-stage/studio-headphones/dt-990-pro.htmlThe Pro's are only available in black. The "Edition 2005" version is available with 32, 250 and 600 Ohm: europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/dt-990.htmlThe "Edition" variants are also available as "Manufaktur", which means custom colours for specific parts: europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/hifi-manufaktur/dt-990-manufaktur.htmlWhat is complicated are the huge amount of (sub-)versions that Beyer has produced in the past. These are the newest variant of the DT 990 Pro's (250 Ohm): The pics in the thomann.de cyberstore show an older DT 990 Pro variant: www.thomann.de/de/media_bdbviewer_AR_106865.html?image=0I guess Thomann didn't change the pics since the new version is very similar. There are clear differences though: The position of the cable entry in the earcups, the markings, the coiled cable and the (mini-)jack plug for example. Maybe that's your "old" version, Ian. There are a lot of even older variants (some with impedances that are not available anymore): The really old variant of the DT 990's (with different headband made from leather): It appears that there are also some carbon body variants of the DT 990 Edition "Manufaktur" 'phones: www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/421973/beyerdynamic-manufaktur-custom-phones-now-available-through-moon-audiowww.moon-audio.com/Modified_Headphones.htmSomething interesting about the frequency response (but no information about impedances used): www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Headphones-Review-867/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-PRO-Comparison.htmInformation about 770/880/990's drivers, but probably also with outdated information (some are referring to older DT 990's that have really sucked-out mids): www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/351227/how-to-convert-dt-880-into-dt-990-and-vice-versa-dt-770-info
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Jul 9, 2011 7:20:13 GMT
Been following this thread with interest. I like my HD600s, but my HD25s not so much, so am looking for a closed back HP to supplement the latter. I've gleaned (thanks, Christian!) that the DT 770s are the only closed back HPs here, so I just have to choose from 80/250/600R and PRO/Edition variants!
Have I got this right?
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 9, 2011 16:05:16 GMT
IMO the Pro/Edition variants don't sound very different. I've compared both the 250 Ohm Pro and Edition variants of the DT 990's. The difference is subtle. Treble and bass of the editions are flatter, the clamping force is reduced with the Edition's. The Pro's are a bit more coloured, but exactly that makes them a bit more musical.
The 600 Ohm variant (only available as "Edition" or "Manufaktur") could be also interesting because it has other drivers and Beyer itself rates this drivers higher than the 250 and 32 Ohm variants. IMO 600 Ohm makes only sense with an amp that is meaty enough. The BOSSFET would do fine, but maybe not all of my amps. I guess the 250 Ohms are a good compromise though.
The main difference between the Pro's and Edition's is the price. Everything else is a question of personal taste. I can understand people that find the look of the Edition's or Manufaktur's more appealing. To be honest: I've bought almost a 250 Ohm Edition, but those fine metal parts at both ends of the heandband are IMO just too delicate. It's probably the weakest part of these headphones. I don't want to spend more for almost the same headphones and get less rigidity.
I guess one of the biggest problems (with all Beyer's) is the vast amount of choices you have as customer. That was exactly what has prevented me to buy Beyer's before. I've mentioned that in a few earlier posts already and Mike did that also.
The situation has changed for me though: I love to have this choices.
We had other threads with members posting that they WANT more choices (with pads, clamping force, look, distance from the drivers to the ears, different drivers/impedances etc.). Now, here are those choices. Maybe not everything we'd like to see and a few things we find useless.
We are spoilt for choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 18:54:45 GMT
Thanks Christian, that was really interesting reading. It's funny in the review comparing the edition and pro, it looks as though they prefer the pro which is virtually half the price. I wonder if that housing has that effect on the frequency response? Well, I've been using the 990 pro since I had it all of the time and my head must be adjusting to its sound. Today, I went back to the K601 and the A900 just to see how I felt about them having listened exclusively to the Beyer. This is weird - the 601 is ok but seems thin and lacks body. The a900 comes of worse. The Beyer has made me aware of a 'nasal quack' quality of the A900 sound. I know the A900 is closed but it almost seems a little nasty in comparison. I feel more at home with the 990 now which is really strange. It's amazing how you adapt to the sounds of headphones. I'm still aware of a bass boost on speech from the radio though. Mens' voices can be a little boomy - the K601 is better in this respect, but as far as musical enjoyment goes, the DT990 is excellent. I have no idea whether it's changing or I am. I'm going to put a load of pink noise through it for a few weeks in between listening. (During the nights) Going to the DT770 from the 990 seems much more natural now as well. It's really strange, but I seem to veer towards the DT990 moreso with time. It's terrific at low volumes as well. I don't notice the sucked out mids that everyone mentions either. In any case, if I have a headphone with the mids down, I turn up until they focus. I prefer the treble to the Senn 600 and 650 I think. (Although it's lifted) It seems to have a deeper bass I think as well. It's time Senn moved on with something to replace the HD650 perhaps? For me, if the Senn's treble was lifted, I'd be happier. The DT990 is very like a speaker imo and feels more natural sounding. (Even at very low volume) Heavily compressed British DAB radio shows on them as well. They really seem to show the poor state of radio in this country. Christian, did yours slightly change with time do you think? I've had pink noise going through it overnight and it now seems more even. Could be placebo or the time of day, but the mids seem better or I'm quickly adjusting. This headphone seems to creep up on you. When I first heard it, I thought .... it's quite nice. Ramped bass. Quite toppy. Good detail in orchestral but the bass was verging on too high for orchestral. Now I feel that it's really balanced and an even toned listen. Getting more and more fond of its sound. The pink noise seems to have evened it out I think. I think the mids have kind of appeared - at least I feel that the music has more presence so the whole thing is just more balanced. I tried it with my wife (and the headphone) and she thinks it's less 'lumpy', but then she'll say anything if I'm taking her out for a meal. Is that what you found? .... or did you not notice any changes from new? Even on an E11 from Fiio, it sounds super from an Ipod!!! Another thing I'm finding is that I don't need to search for a 'focus' volume. I tend to turn headphones up to the point where the bass focuses and there is 'presence'. These are working wherever I leave them. They are great at low volume and really good loud as well. I would say a fantastic all round user headphone. For me, this is more musical than the DT880 and deserves to be on the top shelf. I found the 880 a bit too toppy and thin for rock stuff and there was an edge in the treble quality that I didn't like. (Similar to K701) Looks like I've finally divorced the K701 too. Don't miss that edge at all. The more I listen, I start feeling that the HD650 was just not right for me as well. I put some test tones through the DT990 and it registers really low. My ears no longer go that high - I could detect up to around 15,000 - 16,000. After that, my ears gave up, but the lows!! (I need a Frans machine to test any further up) It rumbles down in the bass region to the point where you're almost hearing individual wave thuds and still getting a note. It has a very wide response. I got down to 12 where I could just detect thuds. (Does a tiny headphone speaker really go down this low or is it some kind of trick?) The classic question on these is which is regarded by Beyer as top dog? 880 or 990. For me it's 990. At £136 it's a bargain one yet again. The other bargain for me is the K601 although it doesn't have the sheer power that the 990 presents. Now I'm curious about the edition!! I'm going to resist though 'cos these are damned good. Ian
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 10, 2011 19:46:29 GMT
Hi Ian,
I've noticed only subtle changes with my DT 990 Pro's so far. But they DID chance slightly. I guess they are getting more neutral (and less boomy with the deep bass) after the pressure of the headphones is loosing up a bit. That's also a reason why I would NOT advice to buy the "Edition" (unless you want another impedance or the look/cable/lower pressure is what you want). The "Edition's" have been already a bit loose on my head (it was a new pair just pulled out of its box), I guess they could end up with even lower pressure. Maybe the lower pressure is something for people with bigger heads than I have, but I have already a rather big head (the second largest size Swiss army offers for equipment like hats or helmets).
I've put my DT 770 Pro's on one of my ceramic heads for burn-in. The pressure did already loose up slightly. Not much, but it made a difference.
I've noticed also that they sound very good even at low volumes. The DT 770 Pro's have been an eye-opener with that. The 770's sound boomy at high volume levels, that made me listen with lower volumes – and that was spot-on.
I was a harder process with the DT 990 Pro's: Even now, I'm often tempted to listen at too loud volume levels. At least, I think it's too loud because I could listen with lower volumes without much difference in the sound quality. The K702's, on the other hand, must have a specific volume (quite high) to sound really good. The HD650's are more like the DT 990 Pro's here. They sound also very good at low volumes.
IMO the 250 Ohm Beyer's are quite easy to drive for 250 Ohm 'phones. They need good amping to sound really well, but (like the HD650's) they are quite forgiving if amping/source isn't perfect.
There's just one thing where the K702's are absolutely outstanding: Dectecting flaws in a recording. This makes them not very musical, but very analytical. I guess that "feature" alone is worth to keep the K702's.
At the moment, I think the same as you: The DT 990 Pro's seem to be a very good compromise.
In the early morning, I've tested a few other good combos: The X-Can V2 sound also very good with the 990's, but I've tested also my Cambridge Audio Sonata CD30 V2 CD-player with a Neco MOSFET V2.
The CD30 has Wolfson DAC's and the MOSFET had AD8610 opamps. I've listened the album "Touch Yello" with it. Certainly the best I've heard from the 990's so far. The 24-bit 192KHz upsampling Wolfson DAC's are doing a good job. I've had the impression with the CD30 and the K702's that the CD30 is a bit bass shy, but with the 990's, the bass is crystal clear and spot-on.
The 990's are going really deep for (half-)open headphones.
Christian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 17:43:43 GMT
Christian,
I have been putting pink noise through them through the night and then resting them for a while before leaving the radio going through them for the day.
Listening tonight has taken the 'boominess' in the upper bass away imo. The reason I notice so much is that I often listen to speech and mens' voices are a giveaway as far as boominess goes.
They have improved imo and also they seem more even.
In fact, I really like them now!! First impression was boom and tizz quite big time. The top is still there but the boom seems to have settled although the bass attack is still there.
You know, I wonder about the 600 ohm version now. I'm not fussed about the SE version since many don't think that it's worth bothering but I hear that the 600 ohm one is even more even, although I'm pretty pleased with these now.
Ian
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