jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Mar 30, 2011 22:03:59 GMT
Oh dear. Having wanted to try OB speakers for a while, I've been put off by some of the high prices wanted. The woodwork is nearly easy enough for even me but, if you want some decent drivers, it will cost you. I found a pair of SD Acoustics OBS for a reasonable price (on the money, really), and having researched the model, made a speculative bid. I'll let you know what they sound like on Monday evening. Sensitivity is the same as my IPLs - it's really the imagery of the OB I'd like to hear. I think I will have some takers lined up if they don't quite fit my bill, but I have to admit they look promising on paper. Back to the cap measuring tomorrow... Cheers Jon
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Mar 31, 2011 1:52:41 GMT
I've never heard them, and at £7,500 I'm unlikely to, but I love the look of these Jamo R909s: I was looking at some kits at Wilmslow Audio: www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/index.asp and some of the drive units are very expensive. I'd like to have a go at some DIY speakers, perhaps some small monitors for my "desktop" system, but I really don't like woodwork and don't have the equipment to make a good job of the cabinets and when you start looking at kits with ready built cabinets it all starts getting expensive.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 31, 2011 8:54:44 GMT
Fo OB to sound any good, your speakers must be big and that means many drivers or really big drivers like > 15 inches. Also, there must be lots of watts as some of the front sound +SPL will be cancelled by the back -SPL. That's why you don't see any small diaphragms in Maggies. My friend had done one with a FR driver and it just sounded shitty because of the a/m. He gave up the idea eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 9:11:10 GMT
Built one with 20 fullrange speakers about 30 years ago (room high 30 cm wide). With an supplementary subwoofer because of the inevitable acoustic shorting that occurs between say 40Hz and 200 Hz. Also some combfilter effects at higher frequencies can occor depending on placement and room acoustics. Eventhough it had it's perks I didn't like the sound as much as the dipole electrostats I had already built. Took it apart again after same time, couldn't come near electrostatics/planars. Have to say I used very cheap full range drivers no high end stuff.
Never made one with a 2 or 3 way system. only (compensated) closed systems and/or transmissionlines.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 10:09:47 GMT
Oh dear. Having wanted to try OB speakers for a while, I've been put off by some of the high prices wanted. The woodwork is nearly easy enough for even me but, if you want some decent drivers, it will cost you. I found a pair of SD Acoustics OBS for a reasonable price (on the money, really), and having researched the model, made a speculative bid. I'll let you know what they sound like on Monday evening. Sensitivity is the same as my IPLs - it's really the imagery of the OB I'd like to hear. I think I will have some takers lined up if they don't quite fit my bill, but I have to admit they look promising on paper. Back to the cap measuring tomorrow... Cheers Jon Hi Jon I have used OB's for the past few years and like them much mine are 3 way James Doddington/Nick Gorham poor mans Quasars and use Fostex FE167E with super tweeter and use an 18inch base helper. they are folded baffles so not toooo big. you could check them out @ Audiotalk forum. those guys are pretty much hard core SE tube heads but nice and very friendly.the speakers are pretty sensitive at 96DB 1W 1M so not to hard to drive. the downside is that the crossover needs a large inductor and cap to control the point where the bass helper kicks in. I've only heard and used these with tube SE amps (45,2A3,300b,211) so I'm not sure how they are going to sound with SS. i can see no reason why the would not work well with a low power Class A design. they go stupidly loud with the 211 and sound just wonderful. the sound stage (shape and size) is just awesome and a shock if you've not had OB's before. mine where easy to build, not expensive and sound great I'll see if i can find a link for you maybe worth a look
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Mar 31, 2011 16:31:30 GMT
Sounds like the jury is out both ways.
Shaun, your speakers sound somewhat similar to the OBS (except super tweeter). I'm looking forward to trying something else. My IPLs are impressive and hugely muscular. I love them, and will not be parted.
But a break to something different might make me see my current other equipment differently (attenuators etc).
I think the 40WPC (ish) I get out of the MyRefCs will be enough...
Cheers
Jon PS Those Jamos look awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 19:26:21 GMT
Jon,
I do 'believe' in the sonic concept (aided with a sub perhaps ?) In my experiment I used too cheap full range speakers as I wanted to immitate a large full range membrane of electrostats with cone speakers. With the right speakers and proper countermeasures for the acoustical shorts it should sound very 'fast' open and spacey. Have pretty ggod speakers so no use in experimenting all over again for me.
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Mar 31, 2011 20:58:33 GMT
Hi Frans, The OBS use Seas and Dynaudio drivers, IIRC. Pretty decent quality. I also believe the cabinet is some sort of resin, too. I'll let you know on Monday night / Tuesday when I've had a chance to hook them up. I'm quite looking forward to this!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 21:20:42 GMT
I also use Dynaudio (17W75, an oldie legendary not the XL version) and Seas or Vifa (M110) for midrange in my speakers and HiVi ribbon tweeters (the Chinese HiVi is phenominal value and superb quality, also midrange and woofers are good used in Swans)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 22:17:50 GMT
Hi Jon i did Get to listen to some SD Acoustics a while ago. these where OP super T and mid with a ported bass and they sounded pretty impressive. IMHO a well implemented OB has that sort of electrostatic sound but with bass (er balls). I'd be interested to hear what you make of the SD's (hey thats my initials ) especially if they are your first OB. i think you may be in for a nice surprise. good luck with them edit sorry forgot to mention a verry cool place for DIY speakers www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.htmli've heard a few of the designs posted here and I loved the Fonkens. take care
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Apr 5, 2011 18:24:11 GMT
Here's an update: I fired up the speakers when I got in last night. They were sat on the carpet in between the IPLs and worked fine - sounded a little muddy, though. Anyway, today saw me fit the supplied spikes and replace the old copper-wire 3-way links on the binding posts with the last of my solid silver wire and teflon sleeve. The speakers were placed in the same position as the now removed IPLs. All I can say is, "Wow!!" These handsome speakers sound great!! The delivery is very different from the IPLs. They don't have the same huge scale, bass punch or top end ribbon sparkle that the IPLs have. But, and this is really a HUGE but, they have a fabulous mid-range imagery that allows the speakers to disappear. And presence, oh yesss! The bass is there - these things go down deep - but it is less prominent than the transmission line IPLs. Likewise, there is a very nice top end, too. In short, it is a creamy, kind of sophisticated, sound. Vocals and guitars are fab! I'm a lucky sod now, as I have two great pairs of speakers to enjoy. I can't see me ever parting with the IPLs, but this open baffle itch is now scratched and I am very pleased with the results!! Cheers Jon
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Apr 5, 2011 18:25:19 GMT
By the way, I was looking at the OBS crossovers, and think there might be mileage in replacing the caps. Just need to see if they are films or elcos.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2011 22:16:43 GMT
By the way, I was looking at the OBS crossovers, and think there might be mileage in replacing the caps. Just need to see if they are films or elcos. Hi Jon sounds like you are having some fun with the OB's. just some observation's based on how i use mine my OB'S baffles need close coupling to the floor (i think it's called the baffle shadow effect where the cones think that they see double the baffle size) really notice with mine that the bass scale and weight improve used like that. you may want to try removing the spikes and having another listen ;D err just for fun you may find that experimenting with their placement with respect to the side walls also helps out in the bass department. try tucking them up nice and close and then moving them out to see what that does to the sound. as you say imaging is no problemo with this type of speaker and i find that as wide apart as possible works best for me. silly question time ;D what amps are you driving them with? some pictures would be nice as I've not seen this SD before. rats IPL's as well. i just love Ivans speakers i can feel some woodwork coming on Glad you like the OB's take care
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Apr 13, 2011 23:39:29 GMT
Hi Shaun, OK, I finally got round to taking some photos!! I'll link them in at the bottom of this post. I'm using my stereo MyRefC LM3886 amp for all duties at the moment. I have another chassis to prepare for the second unit (modules all built up and tested). These speakers are really something else. I find them very untiring to listen to, as the mid-range is just so effortless. Yes, there is less of the low-down punch the IPLs give, but I could spend plenty of time very happy listening to these. I can see why the OB configurarion has its followers. I'd very much like to hear these playing some vinyl (though that'll be a while as I've had my Garrard 401 for nearly 5 years and it is still to be rejuvenated and plinthed!!). I'm very restricted as to how I place them in the room, due to furniture/shelving etc, but they are in a reasonable postition and a direct comparison with the IPLs for the same position. I can move them forward or slightly back but that's about it. I'll give them a try without the spikes to see if I can get some baffle shadow effect going, and will report back!! A quick look into the crossovers (all hardwired in the back of the baffle) seemed to show film and elco caps. I'll look more closely and try to get some values and see about replacements. Obbligatos will be top of the list due to their huge price/performance ratio, but research will be required!! Cheers Jon
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 22:14:49 GMT
Hi Jon wow lovely speakers and it looks like SD have really got their act together fit and finish wise. the first OB's i had a listen to where Quasars driven by my little 45se and they just blew me away. it was interesting comparing them to some folded horns and hearing the sound stage expand and deepen (OB) and then shrink and flatten out (horns). you should check out the mundorf range of caps IMHO they are dead good. my system is in the process of shrinking down at the moment as we have some building work coming up. so it's back to the Sonus Fabers I'm glad that you like the OB's now how about letting me take the Ivan's off of your hands. take good care
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Apr 15, 2011 23:06:35 GMT
Hi Shaun, Yes, fit and finish is really very good on the SDs. the pics aren't that great, and don't really do the speakers justice. I'm also liking that they are similar in colour to my IPLs (American Black Walnut). Thanks for your kind offer, , but I won't be letting the IPLs go - probably ever!! www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/82947-ipl-speakers-nearing-completion-wow.htmlMy brother in law, Dave, almost did himself in doing such a hugely brilliant job on the woodwork!! Cheers Jon
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 9:11:23 GMT
Hi Shaun, Yes, fit and finish is really very good on the SDs. the pics aren't that great, and don't really do the speakers justice. I'm also liking that they are similar in colour to my IPLs (American Black Walnut). Thanks for your kind offer, , but I won't be letting the IPLs go - probably ever!! www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/82947-ipl-speakers-nearing-completion-wow.htmlMy brother in law, Dave, almost did himself in doing such a hugely brilliant job on the woodwork!! Cheers Jon Hi John yes I'm thinking on rehousing my Fostex FE167E into a smaller cab due to space restrictions. we've just moved house and my listening room has shrunk somewhat. i was thinking of the Planet10 Fonken with super T. I've heard the Fonkens and they have great bass from a relatively small enclosure so worth a go. or even one of the wilmslow cabinets that I'm given to believe can be put together by a 10 year old. just about right for my skills level. I'm as bad with wood as i am with metal so I looking for a kit cab. those SD really do look the part and so much nicer than the plain Jane black ones i saw way back when. they did stick in my mind because they sounded soooo good. take care
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Apr 17, 2011 20:09:47 GMT
Hi Shaun, I think you'll be fine putting the kits together - just need a few cramps that can be for cheaply enough and reused. What can I say about it?? Dave the Wizard did my cabs as I was just going to keep looking at that pile of MDF and not do anything (as he rightly surmised!). I like these OBs very much. I'll think about swapping the IPLs back in after a few more days. That will be interesting - and I'll be sure to play the same stuff through the system, too. Lucky me!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 23:43:03 GMT
Hi Shaun, I think you'll be fine putting the kits together - just need a few cramps that can be for cheaply enough and reused. What can I say about it?? Dave the Wizard did my cabs as I was just going to keep looking at that pile of MDF and not do anything (as he rightly surmised!). I like these OBs very much. I'll think about swapping the IPLs back in after a few more days. That will be interesting - and I'll be sure to play the same stuff through the system, too. Lucky me! Hi Jon yes I've do some comparisons between OB' and boxed ( OP switch so same amp just switched the speakers in). the one thing that i found immediately apparent was that the sound stage came forward and became more 3d with the OB's and moved back again with the boxes. one of the things i like about the OB's i have is that the sound stage is more wall to wall and i find that most boxes have a sort of oval shaped stage in comparison. the stage depth is another big plus with OB's due to their bipolar response (well more like hyper cardioid in reality with folded baffles) but i do find going back to boxes more of a shock than i expect. as i said previously Ob's are more ''like electrostatics with balls''. still that's my take and you may find it's not so let us know what you make of the change back. thanks for the encouragement build wise it helps so I'm looking to re home the FE167E into something a bit smaller. any idea's would be welcome. take care
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on May 12, 2011 18:28:12 GMT
Well, I have changed the speakers over again. Immediately I was struck by the forward nature of the IPLs, and I also noticed that they seemed a bit strident compared with the SDs. Hmm, not what I was expecting. So, in order to try and get a more damped delivery, I got some of my spare long-haired wool and applied to the port mouth. I damped the bass, and the overall sound, but not really what I wanted. I had lost that sparkle. I think, on reflection, that I need to get into the crossover and try tweaking the treble. When I recased the crossovers, having bought a s/h pair of speakers with these ribbons (and the old drivers), there was a different resistor value installed. I reverted back to the original spec, which opened up the treble. The SDs are back in place, for the time being. I'll dig out the IPL build manual and have a root around for the resistor values. Now I know there IS some use in fitting HF / LF rolloff pots, per those 70s speakers!!! Cheers Jon
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