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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 20:45:24 GMT
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Oct 12, 2011 22:06:24 GMT
Damn straight He's said he's happy to help out, and the tip on my Hakko needs replacing anyway. His iron is fine
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 23:41:27 GMT
If you think those resistors are small you should see how small the caps are I'm going to attempt soldering onto the dac chip pins for decoupling When time allows to start on the dac board I'll take plenty of pics. Don't get as much free time lately for the old diy I'd personally do the IC's first after tinning the pcb pads, just take your time, not too much heat. I tend to put a small piece of sticky tape on each end of the IC to the pcb to hold into place. I then solder one leg on each corner of the IC to start with. I then go over the legs with a flux pen and gently do the other legs. Get yourself a roll of desolder wick, it allows easily removal of solder shorts. If your like me and only have crappy ROHS solder its worth getting a flux pen. A pair of fine nose tweezers also come in handy. My eyes have started getting s**t now so will probably need a magnifying glass too Hi Leo yes those caps are microdots but i did order a few extra of those just in case anyone feels brave. ;D IC's first is what i was thinking and then work out towards the edges of the board. I'm going for the I2S version for one of my boards so i may need some advice when it comes to hooking up the USB I2S board. if and when the time comes. a few less components to be soldered and avoids the spindly killer fish WM. i do intend to also try the SPDIF input version later but a little practice may be needed first. i have used SMD once at collage. we used a heat pad and solder paste. it was fiddly and errr i failed the test. I've also gone for liquid flux and a small brush which I'm hoping will work out OK. also two sets of tweezers: also a 10x loop my be useful i used mine to check the values on the resistors. one hook nosed fine point (anti static) and one sprung set both from eBay and cost a few quid each. great advice is always welcome and your tips on SMD are most useful. some pictures would really help so if you get the time that would be great. take care
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 23:53:55 GMT
The only published DIY project that I have bombed out on, and have given up on, was a SC design of a LED torch using quite a few SMD components. I could probably get one working if I tried again these days, but stuff that tiny needs steady hands, and us oldies don't always have steady hands like younger people. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 0:14:01 GMT
The only published DIY project that I have bombed out on, and have given up on, was a SC design of a LED torch using quite a few SMD components. I could probably get one working if I tried again these days, but stuff that tiny needs steady hands, and us oldies don't always have steady hands like younger people. Alex Hi Alex don't worry some of us are not that far behind you (or so it feels these days). i was 35 when at college but by that time i was so used to big components it was pretty hard to adjust. those youngsters made it look so easy and did some pretty good work. my components ended up pretty skewed and sad looking by comparison. it gave the Tutor a good laugh and he kept it for further classes as an example of how not to do it. steady hands or plenty of Valium would be my hunch ;D I'm even starting to think that Chongs advice on '' glue them on first'' is a go-er. i could post some fuzzy pictures of the work and say finished without even warming up the iron. eerr only joking take care
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 16:27:41 GMT
Southern Europe checking in! A liitle packet was plonked into my sweaty hands this afternoon by Sr. Posty-o. I was looking through the goody bag; Boards, lovely Resistors, tiny but I reckon I'll be ok ES9023, hmmm, maybe a stiff vodka first then, the WM8804, OM-F-G! I think I need the flipping Hubble All VERY well packed and labled, many thanks Shaun for all the effort, very much appreciated. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 16:59:40 GMT
Must be quote of the week ;D the company's getting better all the time That's both Shaun and Chris booked for the Hubble. Alan
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 17:53:17 GMT
Funny you should say that. ESS, soldered with little problem, not beautiful but OK. First resistors, all fine. WM.... board written off! Are there any spare boards or rumours of a second GB? Guess who was stupid enough to only buy one, very strange as I have a little stock of every other board GB. Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 22:37:53 GMT
Funny you should say that. ESS, soldered with little problem, not beautiful but OK. First resistors, all fine. WM.... board written off! Are there any spare boards or rumours of a second GB? Guess who was stupid enough to only buy one, very strange as I have a little stock of every other board GB. Syd Hi Syd Nice try fancy another go? OK Jon or Leo any takers on soldering Syd's WM for him? i can post out a board and WM for your attention. it looks like the one part that most newcomers are going to have problems with. i have a spare board, DAC chip and WM in the International rescue set. i must admit to looking at that part and going OH S*** but then I've weaseled out to a certain extent by going for I2S input which avoids that particular problem. hay ho though i may give it a go after i have a working board. i have the spares Syd so no worries. Just a little ask it may be helpful to others about to start to know what method you used to solder the chips IE flood and suck or solder each leg individually type of thing. also how you think things may have go astray with the WM8804. I'm just thinking on that ''if we work together thing''. it may help. take care
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 22:51:38 GMT
Southern Europe checking in! A liitle packet was plonked into my sweaty hands this afternoon by Sr. Posty-o. I was looking through the goody bag; Boards, lovely Resistors, tiny but I reckon I'll be ok ES9023, hmmm, maybe a stiff vodka first then, the WM8804, OM-F-G! I think I need the flipping Hubble All VERY well packed and labled, many thanks Shaun for all the effort, very much appreciated. Chris Hi Chris glad the parcel made it to you in good order but the effort was all Will's i just handled logistics for him. yup that skinny beast WM8804 looks tough but don't worry on that you have a little insurance. enjoy the build take care
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 0:01:51 GMT
Shaun, Thanks a lot for your help, really appreciated. I took a notion last night to have a go and was delighted with the initial bits. I even got this tiny one on, except one leg was joined to another, which I sorted today. I then noticed today in better light that the other side had twisted enough that under a 10x I could see that each leg was a little off its pad, would have worked fine though. Of course I got cocky and thought I would desolder and remount it. That’s when a pad disappeared without trace! I can’t even see where the trace should go to. Hopefully some lessons learned. I actually had used a fine tip and tinned each little pad, then touched each leg in turn unto its pad. Maybe try a different method next time Syd
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Post by cyteen on Oct 14, 2011 1:08:52 GMT
At less than £38/U$60 delivered from ebay the Atten858+ www.youtube.com/watch?v=vva2t21sOAs combined with some tweezer and a pot of solder paste should change your ways. The parts actually aline with the pads as the paste melts and its surface tension takes affect. Its quite small and gets the work done at lower temperatures and less damage to pads and traces than an iron.
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Post by jeffc on Oct 14, 2011 1:22:46 GMT
You're such a nice dude Shaun and have so much confidence in us convicts Downunder Glad I have a magnification head set with various lenses up to about 10X mag that make me look like Mr Magoo. All the OMFG comments and Jukes mishap with soldering on that dinky WM IC are starting to worry the hell out of me. I have various surgical forceps etc to help me though and I'm thinking a spot of super glue or some 3M VHB tape to keep the little bugger positioned nicely might be a good thing. Boards are still sailing slowly southwards. cheers.. jeffc PS. I've just talked to one the senior techs in our electronics repair department and as he's been SMD IC soldering for years he's very generoulsy offered to solder in the ICs for me, Yahoooooooooooooooo I promise to solder in the SMD resistors though so you guys don't denigrate me too harshly for copping out
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 9:14:20 GMT
Shaun, Thanks a lot for your help, really appreciated. I took a notion last night to have a go and was delighted with the initial bits. I even got this tiny one on, except one leg was joined to another, which I sorted today. I then noticed today in better light that the other side had twisted enough that under a 10x I could see that each leg was a little off its pad, would have worked fine though. Of course I got cocky and thought I would desolder and remount it. That’s when a pad disappeared without trace! I can’t even see where the trace should go to. Hopefully some lessons learned. I actually had used a fine tip and tinned each little pad, then touched each leg in turn unto its pad. Maybe try a different method next time Syd Well done Syd it sounds like you got pretty close to me. the way you did yours is pretty much what i had in mind for my build and i may still try that for one build to see how it goes. i think that i may also incorporate Leo's suggestion of fixing the chip down with a little tape just to hold It steady. a great first effort. let me know what you need and I'll sort it. Hi Cyteen that's an interesting piece of kit and one that looks worth further investigation. I've used solder paste before once (see one of my previous posts and it worked. I'll look it up on eBay. Hi Jeff ''PS. I've just talked to one the senior techs in our electronics repair department and as he's been SMD IC soldering for years he's very generoulsy offered to solder in the ICs for me, Yahoooooooooooooooo I promise to solder in the SMD resistors though so you guys don't denigrate me too harshly for copping out'' no cop out and any way of getting the job done is fine and yes i have every confidence in the Australian contingent having a really good go at the SMD stuff. so i have two boards and kits left but we can always arrange another GB if things get tight. let's think on the words of the greatest leader of the 20th century. ;D ''yes we can'' can you tell who it is yet? ;D I'm off to London on family visiting duties I'll be back Monday take care
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 10:21:54 GMT
Hi All just a quick note. I've ordered one of those hot air guns but it's going to take a few weeks to arrive. I've also grabbed some low melt solder paste so it could be interesting and work out better than my last efforts with the stuff. So you two board guys may want to hold off on building the second board should the first go wrong until I've had chance to put it through it's paces. I'll post some impressions when I've had chance to try it out. if the hot air thing works out then i may be able to help others out with the WM tiddler. just a thought take care
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Post by cyteen on Oct 14, 2011 20:11:51 GMT
Mine paid for itself in one job, reflowed a gpu bga chip with some rework gel/liquid flux (which I also recommend getting) followed the published heat profile and cleaned up with MEK.
First heat it will smoke a little but settles down after that, so a little ventilation first go.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 21:22:44 GMT
Hi Syd, I've just joined the club Regards, Alan Hi Shaun, pleased you got the boards and I'm sure you'll have a great time with your Grandson. Sad to say I've stuffed up both boards and one WM. However all is not doom and gloom, please keep me one of the spare boards and I'll take the full kit to go along with it....... I'm thinking a hand cut board would solve the lifted trace problems.........that'll keep me busy for a bit. Never say die, I'll come out on top of this one yet. I've sussed out some of the things to do and not, positively definitely not . This is my first try at a commercial board and I do think that these boards ..........these boards being a general term and not intended to mean Will's in particular...... do have to be treated with a great deal of respect and acquired knowledge. How do you acquire the knowledge? Certainly not by throwing up your hands in horror and bowing out. No you have to make the mistakes and thereby learn......you won't learn sitting on your hands. I can't believe how easily those tabs lift of the board, which makes me wonder why. First stab at it I decided you were right fix the two chips then move on to the resistors. So I tinned the WM pad and that looked nice.....plenty of the no clean flux from a pen and a quick wipe over with a loaded solder iron.......hey! haven't we been told that's a no!no! Well THE TINNING LOOKED GREAT......SHIT HIT THE CAPS LOCK.....that's what happens when you've had half a b'tl vino and a bt'l of beer....ah well! a bit more relaxed now that the first attempt is under my belt.......might just be the beer talking. EDIT....... By the way this reads like I'd the boose before starting on the construction......No..No..No!! needed it after the debacle. Placed the WM on the pads what a fiddle...decided to make a wall of tape at one end to butt the end legs up to that looked like it'd work but too much solder on the pads and the bloody WM was sliding off the nice shiny hills of solder. We need a flat pad.......on reflection don't think I'll tin the pads the next time. So where was I ....yes flat pad.....solder braid+flux+iron down on the excess solder draw off and a lovely flat tinned pad well two for the price of one. BEWARE this is how to lose those pads....you get cocky with it and fail to keep the iron and braid in close contact......bingo you've pulled a tab. That said if you do it right and that means take care the finished tinned pads look great. Ready now for the WM...butt it to the tape wall......no wait.... first cut a thin strip of tape.....and here you learn the error of your ways IF YOUR TAPE STRETCHES when you pull it......jesus! what did you expect your trying to hold this little MSOAB in place....would'nt you jump if you had a hot soldering iron thrust in your face. If using tape to hold down.....please non stretching.....so pop the tape on top of the WM the long bits over each end are good to manipulate the WM into position before sticking the long bits down on the board. Now the error of my ways was in using electrical insulating tape...you know the stuff you get...ten rolls for a pound. And to compound it all I'd intended to stitch each corner leg first and did'nt. A quick wipe down the legs with solder and iron and it was fixed....... way too much solder.....down the other leg next and WM's in place. Bit of braid and flux and iron wipe down each side and the excess solder is lifted. Looks good just like on YOUTUBE. Ah! you foolish boy you!........................get the Loupe out. Hmmm! a wee bit more to the one side than the other might be okay get a pic and be sure. Glory be! the f'n thing has moved off the pads into the valleys......S>>>>H>>>>I>>>>T....see pic attached. (By your works shall yea be known) Well that's surely f'd lets get it off.... two irons.....WM in the middle and it's loose but after that don't think I'd use it. So I look at the board and think it's still ok need to clean off the WM pad and start again thinks a bit more.......lets use the spare board a clean start. Looks at IC1 pad I'll tin that one first thinks he. Okay Alan good on you bigger pads a simple job. Honest daddy I only looked at it and the bloody thing fell off. Well actually it seemed like that but to be fair I was cleaning off the surplus solder on the ES9023 pads with a bit of braid and iron when I'd a senior moment let the iron lift and the braid cooled enough to stick to the pad and...F!fffffffffffffff!!!!yup that many were said. So as said above beware braid. After the debacle with the WM all else should be easy......gulp! Now have a look at where those lifted pads go and see if a fix is on the cards. Holy shit!....I'll need to eyeball the circuit schematic these boards are so wrapped up in themselves. Bring on the next round. Alan PS Shaun, sorry for going on a bit.......think I'll post this on the thread.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 23:04:26 GMT
Hi Alan Sorry to hear of your misfortunes, though I don't feel so lonely now You've got the right spirit anyhow I've just returned to mine and cleaned up the damaged board area. I reckon I can maybe relocate every leg on my second WM (yep, lost a leg on the first one). One problem, the second pad up from the bottom left is completely missing and whereas nearly all the others I can follow the trace, I can't see where it goes. Can anyone help please! Edit: Or a pic of a new unused board? That would be great. Thanks, Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 23:21:07 GMT
Hi Syd,
On the schematic I have from Will (very old) pin 9 - CLKOUT is not connected to anything. So you are in luck. It also explains why it lifted as it was not connected to any tracks, i.e. no heat transfer.
I hope someone with the latest schematic will confirm this for you.
regards
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 23:29:40 GMT
Thanks Greg, that's what I was hoping for. Mind you, it means I have to try again. Here's hoping, tomorrow. I only have one more WM.
Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 23:40:28 GMT
Hi Greg and Syd, I've lost pad 17 on the WM on one board and it looks as if it's a no connection. Your comment on heat tran and it lifting had crossed my mind for my pad 17 if that's the case then I'm good to go with that board. The other board has lost pad 16 on the ES which also looks as if there is no connection. If that's so then both boards are still A1 maybe minus A1 Alan
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Will
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Post by Will on Oct 15, 2011 5:12:28 GMT
Hi Chaps! House move all finished now, just a list of jobs as long as a lot of arms, and loads of plans! Still, I hope to be able to post a bit more over the coming weeks. I've had my parcel of goodies through, and as everybody has said, the packaging was superb. Also, a massive thank you to Shaun for doing the hard bit (looking after the ordering, monies, packaging and posting) You're a top man On the smd bit, I use Leo's method, tinning the pads, tacking and then soldering. Use a flux pen www.maplin.co.uk/flux-dispensing-pen-33849 as that helps in forming good joints. Also, make sure your iron is good and hot. A fairly decent video on SMD soldering can be found here Don't expect perfect results first time, and don't worry about bridges at this stage. Get the solder on, and then inspect under a magnifier and good light. If you find a bridge, use either wick or a de-soldering pump. Go in with a hot iron, apply heat, wick/suck and away - a total of 2 seconds max. If you've not cleared the bridge, leave it for a while to cool down. If you keep heating up the same area, you'll damage the chip. The wm8804 really gave me the willies the first time I saw it, but all went well in the end, even after lifting a pad. I replaced that with a short length of wire, as can be seen in the first post. On what pads are used, I attached a picture of the wm8804 circuit area. Pins highlighted in yellow are not connected at all, with those in cyan being linked back under the chip. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2011 9:27:07 GMT
Hi Will I'm sure you're glad the move is over...the real work begins Health to enjoy. That video is amazing, it does show what's possible and gives a bit of hope to us lesser mortals. Syd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2011 12:14:58 GMT
Hi Will I'm sure you're glad the move is over...the real work begins Health to enjoy. That video is amazing, it does show what's possible and gives a bit of hope to us lesser mortals. Syd x2! I've procured some 0.5mm leaded solder and some no-clean flux (couldn't get a pen locally so a brush on job). When I have a quiet moment at home and have built the nerve I'll be having my first crack.
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 15, 2011 16:24:13 GMT
Don't give up guys, you'll soon find it easier after some practice seriously though with a good flux pen and low melt solder you'll be ok, I'll post my attempt in a few days soon as I can get rid of this chest infection. To hold the IC down I'll probably use a blob of blu tack each end of the chip to pcb , don't worry about shorting the legs out with solder. After doing one side just go over with the flux pen and mop up any shorts with the desolder wick. DON'T apply too much pressure onto the pins to avoid damaging the very fine pcb pads. After your done, you can clean the sticky flux off with an old toothbrush dipped in flux cleaner fluid. Get a magifying glass to inspect your joints Just a note regarding the desolder wick, I use 1.5mm no-clean Servisol soldamop which I like, some desolder wicks are really rubbish, a few just make a mess, I once tried this and it was shite! www.maplin.co.uk/de-soldering-braid-222591 . I don't think it contained enough flux so going over bits used with a flux pen may help. Maplin Sell the servisol but only in 10m rolls so its about 13 quid www.maplin.co.uk/10m-de-soldering-reels-33702 , shorter rolls (1.5m) is much cheaper if you can find it (maybe ebay?) . The flux pens are also available from Maplin for about 10 quid (already posted by Will above), again probably can be found much cheaper if you look around.
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