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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 18, 2011 20:32:11 GMT
Owen, I've ordered one of those Belkin jobs (£34.99) will be ideal for my computer rig
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 18, 2011 23:40:27 GMT
Yes, I'm using mine with my "desktop" hi-fi.
The PF30 isn't as nice as the PF40 which had 10 sockets and what looked to be a better filter section and was also available for around £40.00 for a while, but I still reckon that you couldn't buy the parts to make PF30 for the money.
The PF30 is fairly heavy, seems to be well put together and looks quite smart. However, what looks like a thick brushed aluminium front panel is actually plastic, but it's quite convincing and it's only really given away when you touch it ad it isn't cold like metal.
I can't say I've noticed any sonic improvement, but I wasn't really expecting much with my current desktop system as I don't imagine it would be revealing enough to hear it. I plan to put together something better at some point, but I'm just not sure exactly where to go with it at the moment.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 19, 2011 9:10:44 GMT
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Post by gommer on Jan 19, 2011 9:23:22 GMT
LOL, that comment on ebay is yours? ;D
the price is probably justified by the fact it's sprinkled with über pure and very scarce and exotic snake oil in the belly of this beast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 11:08:29 GMT
LOL, that comment on ebay is yours? ;D the price is probably justified by the fact it's sprinkled with über pure and very scarce and exotic snake oil in the belly of this beast. I wouldn't use one, but the pricing is roughly what I would expect of a genuine new Belkin product like this. Alex Belkin PureAV Home theatre Power console - PF40; 13 outlets; 4 filters[AP21300AU3M] - [Belkin] Manufacturer:Belkin Model:AP21300AU3M RRP: Description:The Power Console PF40 provides outstanding power conditioning for audiophiles and home theatre enthusiasts. With 13 outlets and Phase 4 PureFilter Circuitry, the PF40 has four separate filters to provide clean and clear power to all of your audio, video, digital, and high current components.Each PureAV Power Console is packed with innovative features, such as Multi-Phase PureFilter Circuitry, designed to remove electrical noise and provide clean and clear power to all of your valuable equipment... Australian Stores that have Belkin PureAV Home theatre Power console - PF40; 13 outlets; 4 filters[AP21300AU3M] - [Belkin] Price Price Availability Warranty PCFirst $671.06 Buy Mwave $666.10 Buy Mtech Computers $622.00 Y Buy
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 19, 2011 13:54:49 GMT
I think the PF30 that Mike and I bought for £34.00 originally had an RRP of around £400. I wouldn't have paid that for it, but it does seem to be the going rate for commercial in-line mains filters of this type from the likes of Isotek, ISOL-8 etc. I believe these are now old models, the current one still mentioned on the Belkin site is the PF60: www.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=178925Have you ever tried any form of mains filtration/conditioning Alex? I would have thought that someone with your know-how could knock something up fairly easily. I've always found the effects to be either positive or at least not detrimental. The in-line filters I've tried have always had a good effect. To my ears they seem to make music sound more real/natural, difficult to put your finger on exactly what it does, but in my opinion it definately sounds better with than without. I've never noticed any flattening of the music or a reduction in dynamics that some say they cause. I was less convinced by the parallel filters I made, I couldn't hear any improvement with these, but the surge/spike supression they are supposed to provide can't hurt.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 19, 2011 21:19:26 GMT
I've bought the PF30 for one reason Owen..... my computer has been struck by lightning TWICE last year..... I now have a motherboard with onboard anti surge protection and I want to add the PF30 to the equation.... I very much doubt that "either" will be effective in a lightning strike but, together, they may save the motherboard..... It's not a case of "noise" on the line up here, lightning is the biggest threat to sensistive equipment..... I remember the day after the first lightning strike (wiped the motherboard) I was going into town in a taxi and was moaning to the taxi driver about my computer.... he said "you were lucky".... a few miles down the road he pointed to a house and the fekkin' thing had been burnt to the ground!! Apparantly, the family was "out" when the lightning struck and they returned home to a burnt out shell There can be a mile between houses up here and your house could go up in flames without anybody knowing.... It's got me really paranoid now, every time the rain comes on I'm waiting to hear a loud bang followed by a flash of blue light I hope the "Belkin" can "do" lightning
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Chris53
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Post by Chris53 on Jan 20, 2011 21:12:55 GMT
I have one of the BT transformers that I bought a while back when they were about £50 - I thought at the time that it made an improvement and decided to buy one of the airlink balanced mains transformers that Owen mentioned. The one I bought had filtering too but the company couldn't tell me what the filtering was or did, which wasn't too impressive. I thought that the airlink gave an improvement over the BT transformer and of course I could plug more gear than the BT could manage into it. I ought to try a comparison again now that I have a modded X-Can 2 which lifts several veils all on its own. Maybe I should take the airlink apart and post a few pictures? (if I can work out how to post them) I'd be interested to hear what the people "in the know" here think of its innards.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 20, 2011 21:57:09 GMT
I have one of the BT transformers that I bought a while back when they were about £50 - I thought at the time that it made an improvement and decided to buy one of the airlink balanced mains transformers that Owen mentioned. The one I bought had filtering too but the company couldn't tell me what the filtering was or did, which wasn't too impressive. I thought that the airlink gave an improvement over the BT transformer and of course I could plug more gear than the BT could manage into it. I ought to try a comparison again now that I have a modded X-Can 2 which lifts several veils all on its own. Maybe I should take the airlink apart and post a few pictures? (if I can work out how to post them) I'd be interested to hear what the people "in the know" here think of its innards. Go for it Chris, Pictures speak more than words.... I would be interested to see the guts
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 21, 2011 0:03:37 GMT
Is it this one Chris? www.airlinktransformers.com/transformer/cbs2000-conditioned-balanced-power-supply.aspIf so there's a picture of the innards on the web site. Reading the description, which isn't particularly clear, it sounds as though the filter element is the transformer itself with the addition of some varistors for surge/spike protection. In any case, I'd be interested to hear your comments on the sound with and without the balanced supply. I was thinking of using a standard balanced supply with a multi socket choke and Cx, Cy type filter plugged into it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2011 17:05:16 GMT
I'm thinking of buying one of the B.T. conditioners, making up a trailing lead of a couple of metres, then hooking up one of the Belkin PF30 filters and connecting up my hi-fi including headphone rig. The way I see it I will have conditioned/filtered power which will hopefully get rid of some of the clicks and pops I sometimes get from the fridge, freezer etc. Would this work? Comments?
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Chris53
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Post by Chris53 on Jan 21, 2011 17:09:57 GMT
Is it this one Chris? www.airlinktransformers.com/transformer/cbs2000-conditioned-balanced-power-supply.aspIf so there's a picture of the innards on the web site. Reading the description, which isn't particularly clear, it sounds as though the filter element is the transformer itself with the addition of some varistors for surge/spike protection. In any case, I'd be interested to hear your comments on the sound with and without the balanced supply. I was thinking of using a standard balanced supply with a multi socket choke and Cx, Cy type filter plugged into it. No Owen it's the 1.5kVA - the 2kVA was a bit out of my price range at the time. I bought it in June last year when the price was around £230. www.airlinktransformers.com/transformer/cbs1500-conditioned-balanced-power-supply.aspWhen I get a bit of spare time I'll compare it again with the BT unit and report back.
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 21, 2011 18:03:24 GMT
I don't think so, the BT unit will be fine with one or maybe two fairly low power components connected, a CD player and maybe a preamp, tuner or headphone amp for example, but the transformer isn't big enough to connect several pieces of equipment or something that draws a high current like a power amplifier.
Looking at the pictures on the first page, there's a sticker on the transformer which says 150W, 50Hz. You don't really want to run the transformer near the limit, so I wouldn't connect equipment that draws more than 100 watts at most.
If you want to run several pieces of low power equipment together with an integrated or power amp from a single balanced transformer you need to add up the wattage of all the bits of equipment you want to use, look at the stickers on the back. If it's DIY stuff and you don't know the actuall wattage, I would add up the VA size of the transformers used in them and go on that.
Whether it's total Watts or VA, to be on the safe side, also transformers may be noisy and hum if run near maximum output, I would double the total figure to get a rough idea of the size of transformer needed. If the total were 700W or 700VA, I would double that to 1400, which is an odd size, so you would go up to the next nearest available size which would probably be 1500VA or 1.5KVA transformer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2011 18:07:30 GMT
Thanks, I guess that makes sense. I have a valve amp running EL34's which I reckon would draw a fair amount on it's own.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 21, 2011 20:22:42 GMT
Owen..... the PF30 arrived today and it is INSANE value for money @ £34.99 shipped! ! I was expecting a little, cheap plastic box... I couldn't believe the size of it when I opened the box! How the HELL can they sell these for £34.99 "shipped"? It's a real piece of quality isn't it?
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 22, 2011 5:44:10 GMT
Absolutely, as I said, at that price, you couldn't buy the bits to make one yourself. Apart from the faux aluminium front panel, which is still very smart and wouldn't look out of place in the front room with your flashy home theatre components, if you had some, it's very solid. I already have my PC plugged into a Belkin surge protector: www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=135041# and my main system is connected to a mains filter and I wasn't really looking for a filter/surge protector for my PC sound system, but came accross the PF30 on another forum and at the price I thought, why not. Have you tried it with any audio components? If so, what do you think, any sonic improvement in your opinion?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 23, 2011 0:46:54 GMT
A MAJOR improvement sonically
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 23, 2011 21:45:52 GMT
A MAJOR improvement sonically I will expand on that statement...... The PF30 is powering my computer, and a NAD C315BEE amp.... Apple lossless files through an Asus Xonar into the NAD.... speakers are JBL control one. Nothing "exotic" but surprisingly good compared to your normal computer speakers type effort. Before the introduction of the PF30 the sound was good, but there was slight background noise when nothing was playing.... since the advent of the PF30 that noise has gone so I am a very happy bunny. As you can see from the photos below, this is near field monitoring.... before the PF30 the imaging was stunning... with the PF30 in circuit the imaging can now be described as BLOODY stunning! , there is depth, height, width.... it's palpable, you could almost reach out and grab an instrument / singer of your choosing. I always thought the JBL Control one's were a decent buy for the money but, until now, never realised JUST how good they are sonically... tight, rhythmic, detailed and revealing... spot on imaging. Funny thing.... when I crank them up (since fitting the PF30) I keep looking under the desktop CONVINCED that there is a subwoofer lurking beneath it.... the bass seems to have developed some serious extension... you just wouldn't believe it, close your eyes and you would think you were listening to floorstanders.... open them and you are stunned when you see the 9 inch high JBL Control one's are producing this punch and weight. As I say, a VERY rudimental setup but the end results are VERY satisfying to my ears.... I much prefer this over headphones when at the computer... it's an intimate listen at close quarters but there's a SOUNDSTAGE and you don't have a pair of 'phones clamped onto your noggin.... I love it! It's not a patch on my dedicated loudspeaker system (CD as source) in the listening room but Hell, for the money, it's bloody fantastic for a soundcard / amp / NFM rig Owen, I managed to get a PF40 for £70 (last one) so hit the BIN button, I will fit that into my main system and let you know how it performs in that, I've forgotten all about the "BT" conditioners now The PF30 is stunning VFM @ £34.99 Thanks for the nod
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joethearachnid
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Post by joethearachnid on Jan 23, 2011 22:11:17 GMT
Shall we play spot the difference? Looks like you did some cleaning. (Or some drinking ) -JoetheArachnid
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 23, 2011 22:17:50 GMT
Shall we play spot the difference? Looks like you did some cleaning. (Or some drinking ) -JoetheArachnid hehe Let's just say, the "drinking" aspect will not appear in any future photos..... Thanks for that snapshot Joe, it's a good reminder for me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2011 22:40:38 GMT
Shall we play spot the difference? Looks like you did some cleaning. (Or some drinking ) -JoetheArachnid hehe Let's just say, the "drinking" aspect will not appear in any future photos..... Thanks for that snapshot Joe, it's a good reminder for me Mike Do you get your Scotch any cheaper in it's country of origin ? If not, you are going to have a lot more spending money, or you will be able to cut back on your workload and enjoy life more ! Regards Alex
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 24, 2011 2:04:09 GMT
Wow, you must have liked it if you bought a PF40 as well. I'm pleased you're pleased.
On my system, I didn't really notice any difference, but I put this down to a couple of reasons.
Firstly Pimeta/Monica DAC PSU already has a Schaffner filter in it and secondly my speaker amp is a little shoe-box size Denon CD player/receiver. The Denon sounds nice enough, quite pleasant in fact, but it's not very revealing for example I can play pretty much any CD on it and they all sound fine, but when I play them on my main system you can clearly pick out those that sound good and those that sound pretty ropey.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 6, 2011 20:32:32 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 14, 2011 22:10:45 GMT
Gave it a quick squirt of satin black spraypaint.... looks a bit better without "property of BT" emblazoned all over it!
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Feb 16, 2011 0:26:07 GMT
Looking good Mike, have you heard any difference?
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