XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Nov 30, 2010 7:25:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 8:01:02 GMT
You are not gonna need this with a Panda or SC classA !
That's a lot of switches that might need servicing. I hope it comes with a servicemanual. This will be badly needed if it needs recalibration too. Interesting for those that need to repair or build tube amps on a daily, or at least regular, basis and know this machine inside out and how to interpret the 'data'.
I wouldn't buy it just to test a few tubes I have lying around.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2010 8:05:04 GMT
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Nov 30, 2010 9:14:41 GMT
You are not gonna need this with a Panda or SC classA ! That's a lot of switches that might need servicing. I hope it comes with a servicemanual. This will be badly needed if it needs recalibration too. Interesting for those that need to repair or build tube amps on a daily, or at least regular, basis and know this machine inside out and how to interpret the 'data'. I wouldn't buy it just to test a few tubes I have lying around. Heh, heh, I know SS not needed. But I will need a tube tester for some tubes I will be using or to match them. So at that price, not worthwhile, right?
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Nov 30, 2010 9:30:50 GMT
Called up the owner and he says he has a downloaded copy of the calibration steps. Asking for a copy to show you guys here to help me decide. Thanks.
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Post by victoriaguy on Nov 30, 2010 23:27:13 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 30, 2010 23:49:51 GMT
Who watches the watcher? I always rely on my own ears. As soon as you start talking "calibrated" you start going down the wrong road and you become "Anal".... Always use your ears
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Post by victoriaguy on Dec 1, 2010 0:42:50 GMT
Pink Floyd: good point! (if I understand you correctly...) ToneLizard makes the same point: The best tube tester is your amp. Tubes can test as 'Good' in the lower-voltage tester, but be poor in an actual amp with HV. (not talking here about 'tube amps' with low voltage on the plates...) John
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 1, 2010 1:10:03 GMT
Thanks very much Victoriaguy for the links to the manuals. Yes, the seller says it's working but need calibration. As he does not know how to do it after buying it, he's letting go the Jackson. Anyway, he's also emailing me the manual but I'm not sure whether it's a service manual or just the operating manual that comes with the Jackson. Btw, this is a 658A model and not the 658. I'm not sure whether there is any difference between them. Thanks again.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 1, 2010 1:33:54 GMT
Sorry, only this link works as the other is down for a long overhaul. bama.edebris.com/manuals/jackson/658Oh dear, seems to need some sort of paper roll as well to print out the results. Hmm, what kind of paper needed? Thermal paper? So what do the experts say? To buy or not to buy at USD 270? This price had not been negotiated yet. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 1:42:58 GMT
Sorry, only this link works as the other is down for a long overhaul. bama.edebris.com/manuals/jackson/658So what do the experts say? To buy or not to buy at USD 270? This price had not been negotiated yet. Thanks. Chong YOU have to decide if it will be used often enough to justify both the asking price and the time spent recalibrating it. Is the tester going to tell you if brand X valve will sound better than brand Y valve in the equipment you are using, depite giving similar results with the tester ? The other question is whether the money would be better either spent, or put towards something else that you wish you had. Perhaps something like the 800s, or something like these at the link. My friend in NYC tells me they are the best he has ever heard. Alex www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/523780/larry-at-headphile-is-selling-a-like-new-condition-sennheiser-he90-orpheus-is-that-the-going-rate/30
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 1, 2010 2:06:31 GMT
Sorry, only this link works as the other is down for a long overhaul. bama.edebris.com/manuals/jackson/658So what do the experts say? To buy or not to buy at USD 270? This price had not been negotiated yet. Thanks. Chong YOU have to decide if it will be used often enough to justify both the asking price and the time spent recalibrating it. Is the tester going to tell you if brand X valve will sound better than brand Y valve in the equipment you are using, depite giving similar results with the tester ? The other question is whether the money would be better either spent, or put towards something else that you wish you had. Perhaps something like the 800s, or something like these at the link. My friend in NYC tells me they are the best he has ever heard. Alex www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/523780/larry-at-headphile-is-selling-a-like-new-condition-sennheiser-he90-orpheus-is-that-the-going-rate/30Thanks Alex, I understand what you are talking of and I'm also juggling between to buy or not to to spend the money elsehwere where it is of more value. Btw, is there any simpler tube tester just to test the basic for just matching tubes and life of tubes left. That's what we basically needs in glowing Hifi. I know even if we have matched tubes, different brand will sound different. At least, with a tube tester, just like with SS matching tester, we can confidently say that the circuit will perform the best although it may not sound the best due to dynamic instead of static condition. Btw, this Jackson has a dynamic testing, just fyi. I can only agree with your NYC friend that the HD800 is amongst the best dynamic headphones around. The best that's still up to the individual, the HAs and Hifi equipment they used as matching is also important for the best sound.
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Post by victoriaguy on Dec 2, 2010 6:24:19 GMT
Oh dear, seems to need some sort of paper roll as well to print out the results. I think the paper roll being you are reading about is the 'roll chart' with the settings for different tubes.....inside the tester and visible through the window above the meter...there is a ribbed black wheel in the upper right corner which turns the paper roll. In machines that have been used a lot this paper roll can be torn or jammed. For most testers there are also 'Supplementary charts' with settings for more & newer tubes. Without the correct settings, it is difficult (but usually not impossible, with some work) to test a tube. Whether this is a good way to spend your $$, only you can decide. It also depends on how much diy you do...tube 'matching' can be done with diy equipment or just by making measurements in your amp. Even with a tester it's pretty difficult to estimate 'tube life' - it depends on the tube and especially the circuit/voltage that the tube is working in. Some designs 'push' the limits of the tube, others are 'kinder'. If you are mostly just 'tube rolling', I'm not sure you will get a lot of use from a tube tester like this. If your audio 'toy budget' for a year is in the thousands of $$, then 'why not'? If your budget is smaller, perhaps spending money on something different will bring more pleasure. John
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 2, 2010 9:33:19 GMT
Oh dear, seems to need some sort of paper roll as well to print out the results. I think the paper roll being you are reading about is the 'roll chart' with the settings for different tubes.....inside the tester and visible through the window above the meter...there is a ribbed black wheel in the upper right corner which turns the paper roll. In machines that have been used a lot this paper roll can be torn or jammed. For most testers there are also 'Supplementary charts' with settings for more & newer tubes. Without the correct settings, it is difficult (but usually not impossible, with some work) to test a tube. Whether this is a good way to spend your $$, only you can decide. It also depends on how much diy you do...tube 'matching' can be done with diy equipment or just by making measurements in your amp. Even with a tester it's pretty difficult to estimate 'tube life' - it depends on the tube and especially the circuit/voltage that the tube is working in. Some designs 'push' the limits of the tube, others are 'kinder'. If you are mostly just 'tube rolling', I'm not sure you will get a lot of use from a tube tester like this. If your audio 'toy budget' for a year is in the thousands of $$, then 'why not'? If your budget is smaller, perhaps spending money on something different will bring more pleasure. John Hi John, Thanks for the comments. Oh, the paper roll is not for printing out results but just for the setup parameters like in a chart. Ok, let me think about it and see what other options there is just to match and test tube life without this level of professionalism. Many people is saying in the tube tester forum that Hidcock tube tester is overall better then Jackson. I wonder? Now I could be about to owning a piece of antique history or a junk.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 2, 2010 9:37:35 GMT
So how can we test tube to match them and for life in a diy way like for SS?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 13:59:28 GMT
You cannot test for 'life left' as the emission measurement is just a recording of that moment in time and you do not know how good it was and acc. to what curve it is degrading.
Operating and correctly interpreting the outcome of this meter is already hard to do for experts that know about the properties of tubes.
Also it is not simply a matter of pluging in a tube, push some buttons, and you are ready and know how good it is.
Matching them can best be done in circuit with a multimeter or oscilloscope and tone generator.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 2, 2010 14:29:06 GMT
You cannot test for 'life left' as the emission measurement is just a recording of that moment in time and you do not know how good it was and acc. to what curve it is degrading. Operating and correctly interpreting the outcome of this meter is already hard to do for experts that know about the properties of tubes. Also it is not simply a matter of pluging in a tube, push some buttons, and you are ready and know how good it is. Ok, then how do we test for life in a diy manner? Matching them can best be done in circuit with a multimeter or oscilloscope and tone generator. I like your last statement. Care to elaborate? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 16:22:02 GMT
You CANNOT test nor predict residual life of a tube. You can only determine how it behaves at this point in time. These measurements tell you nothing about how good it was when it left the factory nor how it will be in the (near) future. I can only elaborate with the schematic of the tube amp in question in front of me. It all depends on which tube, in which configuration with which voltages and currents and in what part of the amp and overall feedback, if present, might mask certain deficiencies of tubes.
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Post by victoriaguy on Dec 2, 2010 22:32:00 GMT
Matching them can best be done in circuit with a multimeter or oscilloscope and tone generator. I like your last statement. Care to elaborate? Thanks. What property of the tube do you want to 'match' ? If you are just interested in how much current will flow through the tube, you can figure that out with Ohms law and measuring the voltage drop across the cathode or plate resistor- if one is present. (e.g. no CCS) etc.. etc... As Frans points out, the answer is very dependent on the particular circuit. Many circuits don't need matched tubes anyway, and the relationship between tube test results and the audio result isn't very clear- unless the tube is defective. Lots of room for experiments..... John
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