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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 6, 2010 23:00:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2010 0:13:14 GMT
Looks beautifully put together, a work of love and unrelenting quality. Todays equivalent built to that standard would cost scary money and probably embarrass some big names! It reminds of a Marantz PM94, the way its put together. I've always fancied one of those, the last time I heard one it was connected to some Tannoy Westminsters filling a very large room to great effect. That's what headphones just cannot do, I love that thump in the chest that a powerful but controlled 'speaker system can give. Active ATC 100s anyone?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2010 0:45:04 GMT
Chris At a listening session on Sunday we used a pair of biamped Infinity speakers with Raal tweeters, driven by an AEM6000 (kit) Mosfet 240W/Ch/8 ohms for the low end , and a 100W/Ch/8 ohms for the rest . That should have gone a long way to satisfying you ? Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 7, 2010 10:12:45 GMT
The specs seem pretty poor compared to modern day amps....
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Sept 7, 2010 13:05:38 GMT
Nice looking unit Mike, what speakers will you use?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 7, 2010 19:17:35 GMT
Nice looking unit Mike, what speakers will you use? Just the ones I knocked up out in the workshop..... Wharfedale drivers in a 25mm thick ported MDF enclosure with a very simple crossover (basically 1 x 5uF polyprop in line with the tweeter).... I also have a big acoustic energy subwoofer out there to give me some serious low end grunt. I've ordered up a couple of 6,800uF Samwha GT series capacitors to replace the 2200uF in the PSU section and will replace the 3 x 470uF types with Vishay 3300uF types. Capacitor sizes have reduced greatly since the 70's so all of the PSU caps can be replaced with much higher capacitance variants so this should be beneficial to the amp.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2010 19:48:52 GMT
Mike, I've always been sceptical about specs. We don't listen to specs, we listen to sound. Sometimes kit with very average specs can sound great , there are so many variables concerning the kit its to be used with, the type of music played, the type of colouration you prefer, etc.., etc.. You're too knowledgeable to bother too much about specs.......
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 7, 2010 21:38:59 GMT
Mike, I've always been sceptical about specs. We don't listen to specs, we listen to sound. Sometimes kit with very average specs can sound great , there are so many variables concerning the kit its to be used with, the type of music played, the type of colouration you prefer, etc.., etc.. You're too knowledgeable to bother too much about specs....... Mike, I've always been sceptical about specs. We don't listen to specs, we listen to sound. Sometimes kit with very average specs can sound great , there are so many variables concerning the kit its to be used with, the type of music played, the type of colouration you prefer, etc.., etc.. You're too knowledgeable to bother too much about specs....... EXACTLY! Spot on. I have ALWAYS said that I get more enjoyment out of my "scrap heap" workshop rig than I do out of my indoor rigs and this continues to be the case. The sheer "presence" some of this vintage gear produces is scary.... Radio 2 played a few 1970's "ish" recordings today and, bugger me, they were the best I have heard them, in the sense that I was DANCING about the workshop... Sure, you have all the usual intererence problems cropping up (occasionally) with an FM transmission but these ADD to the experience, IMO, they don't detract. I'll take a few pics of my workshop "FM" rig tomorrow..... it's stuff I have either saved from the skip (dumpster) or stuff I have retrieved from it..... it's hooked up with "bell wire" and not "audiophool correct" but, shit, it sounds GOOD!! Being an outdoor / workshop installation it is deemed as "fit and forget" and has to endure all types of conditions such as extreme cold, dampness, extreme heat, insects etc. I have tried "modern" equipment out there but it just doesn't have the same SQ.... the workshop is built in a "cathedral" style.... very high pointed ceiling, made out of solid stone, walls three feet solid stone thick.... so acoustics are VERY good. The postman reckons it sounds like a "rock concert" he always has a fag with me when he delivers. I'm sure that IF Sonab had the parts we have available today and had the same "mindset" they had back in the 70's they would be at the forefront today... 1969.... a 40 watt RMS receiver with a 5 year warranty, schematics (service manual) taped under the hood in an envelope..... built so a BUS could run over it without damage (literally)...... that sums up the late 60's perfectly. 40 years later it's STILL giving good service and, with a few capacitor replacements, will continue to perform for another 40 years! An "ipod"? 3 years if you're lucky and chuck it in the "green" bin. The sooner we get back to "built to last" products the better.... I fear the halcyon days where craftsmanship and longevity were assured are well and truly over This "recession" may be a good thing.... it may teach people about the value of money and how buying "quality" usually pays at the end of the day
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 9, 2010 21:10:09 GMT
I did a bit more to this today... decided to change the power caps.... jeez, it sure was "tight" in that compartment but I managed to get everything replaced in under 1 hour. As it was: The 2 x 2200uF Elnas are being replaced with 6,800uF Samwha GT: The 3 x Elna 470uF are being replaced with 2200uF Panasonic FC: Time to strip those puppies out: And replace with minty fresh Panasonic FC: Then in with the Samwha GT: Job done!: I was pretty amazed with the condition of the ELNA caps considering they are 40 YEARS old!..... Look at the readings for the 2200uF caps: The 470uF were slightly more "out there" but still excellent considering they are 40 years old: I have also replaced most of the film caps with LCR / EVOX polypropylene types (pics to follow) and most of the electrolytics on the rest of the board.... I hope to have the entire receiver recapped by the end of play tomorrow. Great fun working on this old girl
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 9, 2010 22:57:36 GMT
I still think we have got it totally wrong as a society.... there is no NEED to go "green" and dispose / recycle gear every second year.... whatever happened to "built to last"? This may not be the prettiest on the block but it is STILL doing it's job 40 years later and will last another 400 years if regularly serviced! Same with furniture.... "quality" made 200 years ago is still fit for purpose.... last years "MFI" flatpack kitchen is being dumped into the landfill en masse. Green? Carbon footprint? recycling? none of this would be necessary if the products were "quality". Go out for a cup of tea nowadays and you're likely to be served it in a disposable polystyrene cup.... what's that all about? Why can't they serve us a cup of tea in a china cup and WASH the fekkin' thing like they used to? This is ONE lazy and slovenly society we are living in..... bad times indeed...... next thing we will be eating our Sunday dinner out of cardboard boxes...... WAIT! we already are! What the hell has happened to our World? To hell with it all..... I'm off to listen to my "ipod" and if the battery packs in I'll just throw it in the "green bin"...... Madness!
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Sept 9, 2010 23:33:13 GMT
Mike I agree with you, vintage gear can and does sound great. I wish I had you ability and I would work on my 1977 Marantz 2238B.
Your work above was top notch as usual. Enjoy it!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 9, 2010 23:51:10 GMT
More to follow shortly
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 0:04:29 GMT
Interesting how the capacitance has "increased" over a 40 year period but the ESR remains WELL into respectable levels.... ELNA have always been the Rolls Royce of caps and this kind of "proves" it?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 0:06:02 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 0:11:51 GMT
So..... as a "power cap" they actually get BETTER with age in that the capacitance INCREASES and the equivalant series resistance remains low...... May be why we refer to vintage gear as having a "nice tone"
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 0:23:25 GMT
By the way..... one of the 220uF ELNA caps I pulled out of the tuner section had an ESR of "3" (yes, THREE) ohms! I am really getting into the ESR meter now..... it's a very handy tool to have
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 0:34:11 GMT
So..... as a "power cap" they actually get BETTER with age in that the capacitance INCREASES and the equivalant series resistance remains low...... May be why we refer to vintage gear as having a "nice tone" Mike Typical electros back then had a tolerance of -50% and +100% ESR normally increases with age due to evaporation of the electrolyte, and they last much longer at lower working temperatures. Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 8:58:40 GMT
So..... as a "power cap" they actually get BETTER with age in that the capacitance INCREASES and the equivalant series resistance remains low...... May be why we refer to vintage gear as having a "nice tone" Mike Typical electros back then had a tolerance of -50% and +100% ESR normally increases with age due to evaporation of the electrolyte, and they last much longer at lower working temperatures. Alex Blimey... 100%? so your 1,000uF could actually turn out to be 2,000uF or just 500uF?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 9:15:22 GMT
Mike Typical electros back then had a tolerance of -50% and +100% ESR normally increases with age due to evaporation of the electrolyte, and they last much longer at lower working temperatures. Alex Blimey... 100%? so your 1,000uF could actually turn out to be 2,000uF or just 500uF? Yep ! Even today a lot of the bigger Vishay caps for example are specified as having + 75% to - 10%.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 10, 2010 10:08:18 GMT
I'm having difficulty sourcing the 6V 100mA lamps for the receiver.... any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 12:05:29 GMT
Maybe you could consider mounting another armature if possible. screw type lamps should be available plenty. Indicator lamps are getting out of fashion... I assume it is for illumination of the tuner dial.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 29, 2010 22:56:41 GMT
Managed to locate a MINT copy of Hi Fi News / Record review 1972 A six page review Jeezalooo, they sure did give in depth reviews back in the day..... It will take me a good few hundred hours to read this 1972 edition of Hi Fi News...... will take me "minutes" to read a 2010 example.... sad times
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 30, 2010 20:27:42 GMT
The review was a most interesting read.... not a WORD about sound quality (they didn't mention it back in 1972) it was 6 pages of technical details and build quality.... really "in depth" stuff. Hi Fi news and record review these days is just a wank mag compared to the quality content back in the 70's.... Frans, I must get a copy of the review over to you... it mentions the 19kHz thing
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Sept 30, 2010 20:56:12 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 30, 2010 21:50:07 GMT
Cheers Jon..... I have sorted the lamps out. All the best, Mike.
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