Samson SR850: how much different from the HD681?

[islubio]

Hmm my packaging is different from your's. Guess it's the first batch.
Mine came with a transparent plastic packaging with the same model printed on a carbon box inside the plastic covering.
Btw mine says SASR850C too.

[islubio]

BTw who know who is that model on the box haha

[slammer88]

hello there. I've got a brand new one SR850 today, as a replacement of my old AKG K-99. It feels more relaxed than the other one, it is softer and covering my whole ear. Yet, i think mine has a little lack of mid's, or my ears still couldnt get used to it. When i compare the songs with my Yamaha HS-50's, my headphones sound a little "mid-less"..and i guess its the bass, what pressures down and dominates the mids. SOme of you guys said, this head-phones should work some time to find its original sound quality. Is that right?

[elysion]

Aug 24, 2011 13:27:24 GMT slammer88 said:

hello there. I've got a brand new one SR850 today, as a replacement of my old AKG K-99. It feels more relaxed than the other one, it is softer and covering my whole ear. Yet, i think mine has a little lack of mid's, or my ears still couldnt get used to it. When i compare the songs with my Yamaha HS-50's, my headphones sound a little "mid-less"..and i guess its the bass, what pressures down and dominates the mids. SOme of you guys said, this head-phones should work some time to find its original sound quality. Is that right?

Hi slammer88,

welcome on the RG forum. Probably, it's best to give the 'phones at least 200-300 hours of burn-in before you rate the SR850's.

What kind of earpads are you using? The stock pads aren't really good, I'd recommend to use AKG K240 velours pads. Do you also use an amp with the SR850's? They should work well directly connected to an iPod for example, but amps and/or the source can make a big difference.

I didn't have the impression that the mids are missing with the SR850's, but I'm not sure if all of my three SR850's are sounding exactly the same. I could imagine that there are slight differences between individuals headphones. To me, the SR850's are halfway neutral sounding, but sometimes I think it's a bit lifeless if compared to 'phones like the DT 990 Pro's.

[slammer88]

Aug 29, 2011 11:08:46 GMT elysion said:

Aug 24, 2011 13:27:24 GMT slammer88 said:

hello there. I've got a brand new one SR850 today, as a replacement of my old AKG K-99. It feels more relaxed than the other one, it is softer and covering my whole ear. Yet, i think mine has a little lack of mid's, or my ears still couldnt get used to it. When i compare the songs with my Yamaha HS-50's, my headphones sound a little "mid-less"..and i guess its the bass, what pressures down and dominates the mids. SOme of you guys said, this head-phones should work some time to find its original sound quality. Is that right?

Hi slammer88,

welcome on the RG forum. Probably, it's best to give the 'phones at least 200-300 hours of burn-in before you rate the SR850's.

What kind of earpads are you using? The stock pads aren't really good, I'd recommend to use AKG K240 velours pads. Do you also use an amp with the SR850's? They should work well directly connected to an iPod for example, but amps and/or the source can make a big difference.

I didn't have the impression that the mids are missing with the SR850's, but I'm not sure if all of my three SR850's are sounding exactly the same. I could imagine that there are slight differences between individuals headphones. To me, the SR850's are halfway neutral sounding, but sometimes I think it's a bit lifeless if compared to 'phones like the DT 990 Pro's.

They are stock right now, as its kinda hard to find that velour pads in Turkey. I'm using them directly connected to my Line 6 GX sound card..

I'm getting used to this head-phone in time, but compared to my HS50-M's, they still sound a little lack of mid and highs. I'll make some mods anyway (drilling holes and the high filter mod), and keep burn it on..

By the way, i've found this, which proves my argument about mid's ^^

www.superlux.com.tw/productInfo.do?pdctid=348989e5-79f1-451a-8e71-387ca8bcf703&pdkid=3a182f85-9464-41bf-b4c7-d618102f84ac&level=2&lv0=1#feature_zone_li

Look all of them, they all have a little drop on 1k range, which had irritated me when i began to use my head-phones..

[jomox]

Hello,

Found this thread when looking through google doing research.

Firstly thanks for the great insight on the SR850's, Superlux and others, some very good info which is very detailed, it's helped allot.

The thread is like a gold mind of information, very good find! Now for my needs.

I am considering the HD668B OR SR850. The S850's are around £4-£5 cheaper here in the UK, so offer a bit more temptation in terms of value but let me tell you my needs and how I work so you can give me the best advise in which ones to go for.

I use Adam A7X monitors as my main monitoring, so the main production / mixing / mastering are done on the Adams. However I need headphones I am considering to reference check and use at night time when I'm unable to use the Adams.

So the headphones will be used to check mixes and see if the Adams have missed anything. Usually they do not but often it's very handy to have headphones to check things at a very close distance to your ears, there is still stuff you can hear that you missed sometimes, and they will be used quite allot later at night so it's important to have a nice set to work with (Albeit my budget is low)

What I would like the most is, good low deep bass response but also good mid range detail, and generally a very good ability to pick out all the details. Top end is not that important as the Adams have a very detailed and crisp top end so this is not a problem, but low end bass response is important.

Considering this I am unsure which ones to go for, as the S850's seem to have the better mid range but the HD668b have a better bass response/go deeper?

Music I work with is electronic, such as Techno, Dubstep (Bass heavy stuff) But I also work with more acoustic and ambient type stuff. Do the SR850's have enough low end to cater for the more bass heavy styles?

I was also considering Sennheiser HD205 II, anyone have any experience with these on here? I've asked elsewhere for help but as of yet there has been no advise.

As a side note I am not very keen on the modding situation and would rather leave the headphones be (Only changing the pads if needed)

Hopefully someone can help me on here as to which ones to go for as I'll be ordering Sunday night / Monday morning.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[elysion]

Hi jomox,

I don't know how your Adam A7X monitors sound. I've never heard them.

But one things is sure: Neither of the headphoens you've mentioned is really a "reference". They are all very cheap. Really good headphones for monitoring will cost you more.

I don't say that the SR850's and the HD668B's are bad. They are great value for what they cost, but they have their shortcomings. Forget them for bass heavy stuff.

I'd recommend you the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro's with 250 Ohm's for electronic music. They are much better in every department, but they cost more. The DT990 Pro's are still an extremely good value. Keep in mind that a 250 Ohm headphone needs some amplification.

If you have the change to try a couple of headphones, then do it. It's always best to hear it with your own ears.

On the other hand, if you choose the SR850's or the HD668B's, you can't do much wrong because the price is low. If you don't like them, you have not spent a lot of money. The sound signature of both 'phones is rather similar, you can choose the model you like more respectively that which is cheaper.

I'd suggest you to go out, search a dealer that sells DT 990 Pro's and then try them. I'm almost sure that you'll like their sound signature more than that of the other 'phones.

[jomox]

Thanks for the reply and advise elysion, appreciated.

I'd love to get some DT 990 pro's, I've used them at a friends and they are very impressive. Unfortunately they are far over what I am able to spend, though I could afford their replacement cushions

I can probably push up to £60 (€70) maximum. So with this budget I'm obviously limited to what I can get and will have to sacrifice certain elements and have some limitations, but maybe there is something else which could be better for the higher price?

Bare in mind I don't have a decent set of headphones right now so even on this low budget it's going to be allot better then what I'm using. (I just have hd 201 which are very weak in the bass department , and don't have much power)

I was considering the following, does anyone have any experience with these / or recommendations? And if these will be any better then say SR850's.

AKG K121
Shure SRH240A
Sony MDR-V6
Roland RH50

I also should of mentioned that I don't currently have a dedicated headphone amp, but I do use a EMU 1820m, which has it's own headphone amp, while it's not the best it is pretty good, it's clean and clear with good top / mid range, but does lack in the the power bass department and it's only 33 Ohm. (Though there is people powering up ot 60 Ohm headphones fine with the 1820) I will be getting a headphone amp in the future but not for a few months yet.

Thanks again.

Edited for price change and other details.

[Deleted]

For Hifi reproduction the DT990 is O.K.

Wouldn't advise them for final mix checking simply because they are 'coloured'.
Nicely coloured though (a bit bass boost and slight treble boost).
For a mix down you need a flat response.
wouldn't go for HD205.
If on a budget HD668B and SR850 will do fine.
They DO reproduce bass but bot excessive.
They have rolled of highs but this is no problem as mix down is mostly done at less than minimal volume so is compensated.

So HD668B wing design vs AKG alike SR850 design.
Soundwise quite similar though not the same (different impedance drivers as well).

V6 and RH50 is O.K. for monitoring/individual instruments but wouldn't mix down as they are not neutral, more mids oriented.

[jomox]

Thanks for the replay helps some more again. I'll take the R50 /205's of the list.

How are the following?

Shure SRH440
Beyerdynamic DTX 710 / DTX 910

I'm reading some good things about the Shures, though bass not suppose to be that good. I'll probably just get the SR850's though as the price is attractive and I can see what all the hype is about, but still interested in other options if any, but seems I'll have to spend a bit more.

[Deleted]

For a final mixdown you do not want too much bass and highs (as in a lot of hifi headphones) as the exaggerated bass and treble might make you EQ the bass and treble a bit down to get it 'right'.
Trouble is, when mixed down with a lifted headphone it will only sound O.K. with lifted headphones.
When mixed down on a 'flat' headphone it will sound better/more lively on hifi headphones.

An alternative might be AKG K601 or K240 (would prefer 601 for mix down)
I owned the SRH840 which is sortof like a closed HD650 with softer highs and lifted lows.
The clamping force put me off so sold it.
The SRH440 is a bass shyer version and somewhat coarser sounding.
The HD668B is more hifi-ish than SRH440

The DTX910 I heard I found too trebly, not a bad headphone but intended for MP3 usage IMO.
Flatter than DT990 in the lows, yet you can still hear the lows.
The DTX910 is closer to HD668B than SRH440

Construction wise the SR850 is a small bit sturdier (feeling) than HD668B.
Wouldn't throw them around or sit on them though, which may happen in studios.

The Roland RHA-30 can also be used for mix down, but pricier segment already.

[elysion]

For Hifi reproduction the DT990 is O.K.

Wouldn't advise them for final mix checking simply because they are 'coloured'.

I was thinking the same before I wrote my post above. But often the PA's which are used to reproduce the sound in the end are also coloured (speak: bass heavy). Rabbit has mentioned a few times that DJ's working for BBC are using a lot of Beyer stuff, mostly DT 770's IIRC.

If he takes 'phones with weak bass (SR850+HD668B's), then the bass in the final reproduction could be too accentuated. Personally, I don't like the SR850's too much, but this is mostly because of their quite sharp treble.

HD25-1/II's would be also a good choice. A lot of DJ's use them for mixing and sound production. Of course, the HD25-1/II's cost even more and don't fit the budget.

I must admit that the SR850's and the HD668B's are bargains and they offer really good bang-for-the-buck. Superlux 'phones are probably still the best choice in the low cost segment.

Optimal would be a type of headphones that matches jomox' monitor rather exactly. That would give him the confidence that he gets similar results when using the headphones or the monitors.

Mike and Rabbit have a lot of experience with different monitors. I would be very interesting to hear their opinion.

[jomox]

Thanks for the detailed replies again.

I won't be eq'ing on the headphones, most of the work will be done on the monitors such as sorting production / eq'ing etc, however when using the headphones later at night I'll be creative still and make some tracks on them, then after I check on the monitors and fix whatever is needed. If the headphones do a good job then it makes things much easier as won't be much that needs fixing.

Another key point as well is checking the lower bass, how are the SR850's at around 20-38Hz ? The A7X only go down to around 38-42Hz and with no sub it's hard to know what's going on down there. What I usually do is check on my hi fi speakers down stairs as they go down to 30Hz and are pretty good at checking down there. But it's a pain going back and forward to check things down there (Would love monitors that go down to 30Hz but they come at a big price!)

I know I'm asking allot of the SR850 / 668B in terms of bass response but I am very interested to know where they drop of from a users point of view. The specs say they go down to 10Hz but I can't image you can hear allot down there on them considering their price, but if you can hear around 30Hz in OK detail then that would be enough for me .

Having a flat sounding headphone is not important, what's important for my use with the headphone is the lower bass response, good mid range & ability to pick out detail. (Though all 3 will be hard considering budget)

The build quality on both don't look to good and I usually break headphones ( usually snap the plastic parts though and end up having to tape / glue them back together.) But I'm in a new studio set-up now and will look after the headphones more due to them going on a stand when not used. Can't ask to much on the build quality considering the price though.

[Deleted]

Both SR850 and 668B do not fare well in the subbass department.
Not many cheap headphones do.
20Hz normally isn't present in most music but is in the genres you like.
32Hz is already very low... below that you need subwoofers but these also have impact on the skin and body which aids in the 'subbass experience'.
The human hearing alone is quite insensitive to these frequencies, especially at lower levels.

The HD25 is often used by DJ's
1: isolation
2: plays VERY loud (so you can actually hear something in loud discos)
3: ruggedness

Also they are used during recording.
1: isolation
2: ruggedness

I've only rarely seem them used during mixdown other than to check things with lots of people/rumour/noise around not to actually finalize a mix on.

Notice how sound quality is not one of them nor are they 'universal' phones.
For Rock ... YES... some pop music ... yes, but certainly not all kinds of music.

DO NOT believe frequency range specs when buying headphones as nowhere it is stated at - how many dB this is given.
Sony is notorious for this and even their base shy and not bright headphones are spec'd from 16 Hz to 30kHz.
This way they can even claim 4Hz to 100kHz for their top of the line without actually lying....
Specs from headphone manufacturers (at least the frequency range) can NOT be trusted UNLESS they state at how many dB the cutoff points are given or graphs are included.

IF you want cheap AND subsonic the HD681 is the answer but would use the DT990 for a mixdown any day over these as the bass is more exagerated and when unmodded the highs are MUCH more pronounced/irritating as SR850/HD668B.

HD668B is -10dB at 20Hz and -4dB at 40Hz.
Samson is about the same, maybe slightly less.
Shure SRH440 is -20dB at 20Hz and -10dB at 40Hz.
HD25-1 (NOT the SP as this has lifted lows) has a similar range as HD668B BUT because bass is lifted about 5 dB overall they sound 'louder' in the lows.
More expensive though.

VFM wise and having a flat (and thus somewhat boring) sound representation the HD668B and SR850 are hard to beat.
yes... both have a bit o.t.t. highs but not nearly as bad as the subbass doing HD681.
Of course you can do better than these 2 but you will have to lay down more cash too, 2 to 3 times more easily.

In the end it is your choice, your money, your ears and your music that should define the choice.
They don't cost much and can always sell them without costing you too much money in case it's not what you are looking for.

[jomox]

Thanks for the reply again and very good information.

I never really trusted the actual specs on headphones funny enough, as they more often then not seem "over the top" and unrealistic especially on allot of them considering their price! So I very much trust your insight and word about this.

I may get a set of AKG K240s MKII second hand, good deal also, really hope I get these will see over Sunday if he can save them for me to pay Sunday night. Been researching the second hand market and it seems there is good deals on headphones that cost over £100 go for around £60 used.

Let's see how this turns out.

[jomox]

Just an update on my situation. I got the K240 Studio MK2, second hand but got them about half the price you get them for new so very happy. They are also the ones made in Austria so build quality is quite nice.

Overall they are very detailed, good stereo imaging, and low end IS OK, don't go that deep but you can hear what's going on, but I defiantly need a headphone amp to get the most out of these and if need more low end will look at getting a different second set. They don't sound that different to my monitors apart from they not as clean and low end is not as present (Though this could be very much due to the sources I'm using to test them which are not the best)

I'm guessing these don't sound that much different to how the SR850/HD668 sound.

Thanks again for all the help and advise.

[jomox]

Okay another update for this thread. After using the K240 Studio (Not MKII just studio) for a while the above description is not best. I've recently got a pair of DT990 Pro & Superlux HD681 (I got the HD681 brand new for a very good discount price) and a Presonus HP4 which goes very load and is pretty clean.

Firstly the K240 studio are very flat overall, there is no hype at all with these everything is nicely balanced but kind of dull sounding as there's no hype at all. You can really turn them up and listen for many hours without getting any fatique. However I don't find them to be very detailed at all, it's really hard to hear stuff on these as everything is very laid back and dull sounding, this is good for long listening and at loud volume but not for critical listening as they don't go low enough to hear the low end, the mid range detail is not there and nor is the top end for me personally, which is why I brought the DT990 Pro's.

The DT990's are great, very detailed overall, the low end and top end is slightly up front and dominated a little but I like this. They present all the details / flaws and don't miss anything out, the mid is a little laid back but you can still hear the detail there in the mid just not that upfront or in your face. The stereo imaging is also far better than the K240S. I was told before I got these that they are bass heavy but I really don't find them bass heavy, for me it's just right and if anything the top end can be a touch to bright but again I like this as it's all very detailed.

And onto the HD681 which I brought a few weeks ago as it was a deal I could not turn down (£15 posted brand new) Now some say they are similar to some Beyerdynamic but I really don't find them similar to the DT990 at all. The HD681 for me are very mid forward especially the higher mid range which is very detailed and in your face. I'd dare to say that the 681's are better in this mid area due to being very up front. You can really hear what's going on there and fix things if needed. I don't find them as detailed or as good as the DT990's in the low or high end though and the soundstage is better on the DT990's, and overall the DT990's are a better headphone naturally but I do prefer the mid range detail on the HD681's. I like the stiff pads also and I know mods can improve their sound further but I'm happy with them as they are..

For the price I paid for the HD681 they are mighty impressive, in-fact even for their normal price they are worth allot more and comparable to much more expensive headphones. The HD681's also go with the DT990's very well, as with the DT990's I have all the top, high end & general detail, stereo imaging etc and with the HD681 I have all that mid detail so they go together very well.

Now I have the DT990 & HD681 the K240S have now took a massive step back to not being needed anymore. I don't want to say the K240 S are a bad headphone as they are good if you like a laid back flat sound, which is not very detailed but good for long sessions, but for me personally they are not needed now as they are not helpful now with the DT990 & HD681 in use.

[mrarroyo]

As usual I am late to the party! Today I received a pair of SR850 I picked up in eBay for $33.99 including S&H. Unfortunately they arrived without a box wrapped in bubble wrap.

Anyway, I have been listening for about 1/2 hour and straight out of the wrapper they sound very nice with less emphasis on the top end than expected. The bottom end is deep and hope it mellows out a bit, however I could live the way it is provided the music is not bass heavy.

More to come, for now I leave you with pictures.

picasaweb.google.com/109437154048011247077/SamsonSR850?authkey=Gv1sRgCKW59t3m_6DdjQE

[mrarroyo]

I bent the rods slightly to ease the clamping force. Next I need to find elastics that are more forgiving to allow the headband to stretch a bit more since I have to constantly pull down on the can to make it fit properly. At 36 hours of run in the bass is still a bit powerful but it appears to be settling down, should know more in a couple of days.

[mrarroyo]

The SR850 have about 132 hours of burn in and regular use. I will stop it here except for the use they will get from now on. Perhaps it is my old age (54) preventing my ears to hear the high frequencies but I do not hear a harsh nor an energetic top end. Although the sound is still a bit warm it has mellow out even more and I find it quite engaging and enjoyable.

My only two complaints at this price point are: 1) the clamping force, I have done slight adjustments (2) and the pressure has lessened, and 2) the pleather ear pads which I have been looking to buy a pair of cheap velour ones. So far no luck on finding cheap ones but I shall continue to search.

[mrarroyo]

After a bit over a month of owning the SR850 I like them so much I bought two more which will be gifts to my nephew and a friend of mine. These two additional units were bought for $30 USD each including S&H.

I looked into getting the velour ear-pads from AKG but at $35 plus S&H they are more than the cost of the can so I am not so sure I will be buying them.

[mrarroyo]

I have had the SR850 for over two months now and I remain impressed on how good they sound. At under $35 including S&H this are a major bargain and I wish I had bought them sooner. The two people whom I gave a pair are enjoying theirs as well. Cheers!

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2010 16:07:05 GMT @solderdude said:

Samson SR850 filter mod:

Schematic:


filter mounted on the driver:
(Notice the 'Superlux' brand on the driver PCB)


Disassembly instructions are here: www.rock-grotto.co.uk/HD681.pdf
The construction is exactly the same, the filter is different.

Result after mounting the filter:
Much more silky highs with NO top-end 'missing' anymore.
The bass and midrange are unchanged.
I would go as far as describing it 'lush' and 'laid back', where as the HD681 is more lively, dynamic and engaging/involving.
The modded HD681 sounds like you have a subwoofer on your head and have 'front row' seats without being boomy or bass heavy.
The Samson SR850 is more balanced and has a 'softer' reperesentation, more situated in the 'middle' of the theater, better suited for low level listening in the evening.

Soudwise they are NOT similar at all.

My personal preference lies clearly with the Modded HD681.
For others this may well be the other way around.

Dude, can you please tell me the exact name of all the parts you used for the filter mod on SR850?
Thing is I am a rookie in this subject, but I will do the mod.

[angel]

How can I get the leather headband? It looks great, and most feel better in the head.