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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 3:38:05 GMT
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Feb 26, 2011 4:03:53 GMT
I know Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive already since I've modded some computer parts with it. www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htmwww.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/asta/ins_asepxy.pdfI've made extremely good results with it. The glued on heatsinks have got very warm then. That's a sign of good thermal conductivity between the parts that are glued together. "Standard" thermal adhesive has a white look and contains mostly aluminum oxide as thermal conductor. Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive has a rather high content of silver. The Thermal Transfer Tape you have mentioned looks like a kind of thermal pad (which is also used for computers). Thermal pads have usually a lower thermal conductivity but they are (mostly) easier to apply. The connection between parts glued with ASTA is almost indestrucible. It's very likely that you can't remove the heatsink off the chip without destructing it. That would be an advantage for the thermal tape though. I guess it would be removable without problems. BTW: There's a way to remove heatsinks that are glued on chips with standard thermal adhesive. I had a special spray from Kontakt Chemie for that. It's called "Kälte 75" and it's possible to cool down parts to minus 55 degrees Celsius with it. First you have to spray "Kälte 75" on the heatsink you want to remove. If the whole heatsink is "frozen", you can apply mechanical force on the heatsink (for example with some pliers). If the thermal adhesive gets cold enough, it gets brittle and it's easy to break the joint then. Be warned: That doesn't works with ASTA. Those connections are too strong. Very likely you'll also encounter another problem: Since the parts get very cold, vaporized water from the surrounding air will condensate on the parts. In my experience it's best to deal with that by using pressurised air to blow the moisture away. I did this procedure with a few video cards. Absolutely no damage to the cards and the new heatsinks have improved cooling.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Feb 26, 2011 21:23:18 GMT
I ordered Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive today. I can't wait to glue the heatsinks on the opamps... @alex: Did you already have a look at the disassembled FCA202 (in the Behringer FCA202 thread)? I'm curious to hear your opinion about the FCA202 innards.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 22:00:20 GMT
I ordered Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive today. I can't wait to glue the heatsinks on the opamps... @alex: Did you already have a look at the disassembled FCA202 (in the Behringer FCA202 thread)? I'm curious to hear your opinion about the FCA202 innards. Christian What is the primary function of the FCA202 ?. The only experience I have with Behringer gear was a 24/96 equaliser designed primarily for commercial sound reinforcement. I found it sounded very mediocre due to it's intended market. Alex
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Feb 26, 2011 22:10:42 GMT
Here is the thread about the FCA202: www.rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=5504The FCA202 is a rather simple (1x input / 1x output) FireWire audio interface. AFAIK it's the cheapest FireWire audio interface available on the market. I use it as DAC for my headamps. It's a low-cost interface, but IMO it sounds not bad (at least if you set it in a relation to the price). More advanced FireWire audio interfaces have usually a lot of features that I will never need (like multiple inputs/outputs etc.). Behringer is well known for it's cheap products and not especially for the quality of its products. But often Behringer products deliver a rather good bang-for-the-back.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 23:31:35 GMT
Hi Christian Many people who should know, recommend Firewire for Audio. The problem these days, is that many new motherboards no longer provide a Firewire port. Alex
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Feb 26, 2011 23:52:50 GMT
Yes, that's right. FireWire is also more common in the Apple world, but even there it's not used that often. Most external storage has only USB2 or eSATA ports. LaCie is one of the few manufacturers that sells a lot of external harddrives with FireWire.
The use of FireWire expansion cards for PCI or PCI-Express slots will allow many computer owners to upgrade to a FireWire interface. But with many of the small and compact Atom computers there's no possibility to add FireWire.
I like those energy-saving, small PCs (not only those with Atom CPU's). Linux runs very well on them. Linux supports FireWire rather good, but there's a real problem with drivers for FireWire audio interfaces. The ffado project aims to provide those drivers, but it's in a rather early phase. Most FireWire audio interfaces are supported both in OSX and Windows.
I'm very interested to hear your opinion about the innards of the FCA202. Many components are SMD (like with the HP4). At least a better power source is easy to realize. I have to look pin assignment of the FireWire cables. A prepared FireWire cable should do the job and cut power from the FireWire bus. Then an external 12V AC PSU could be the only power source.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 0:19:57 GMT
Christian I think your question about the innards is best directed to someone like Leo , or perhaps Will. Alex
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 9, 2011 16:39:21 GMT
I ordered Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive today. I can't wait to glue the heatsinks on the opamps... I've ordered the stuff days ago, but the delivery has been delayed... BUGGER! Heatsinks but no thermal adhesive... what a desaster... I'd like to glue the heatsinks on the chips NOW – but I can't...
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 20, 2011 23:34:46 GMT
I should receive the Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive next weekend. I can't wait... I'd like to have a precision infrared thermometer to measure if there are temperature differences with and without heatsinks on top the opamps. I don't have a suitable precision thermometer, so I can't do that. Maybe the heatsinks are a placebo, but at least it should have no negative effects on SQ and in theory they should extend the life of the chips. The DAC/ADC chip in the UCA202 could be also an canidate for a heatsink. Maybe I can measure the temperatur of that chip with my multimeter. It can't run very hot though since only 100mA are drawn by it over the USB bus.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 26, 2011 22:35:48 GMT
I've got the new supply of Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive.
Those devices got heatsinks today:
– PreSonus HP4 – AUNE USB DAC – Behringer U-Control UCA222
I have to wait until the thermal adhesive has hardened completely. It needs at least 24 hours.
The old (dried up/several years old) supply of Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive had another consistency than the new supply. The new supply feels much more "liquid". It's IMO a bit more tricky to apply then it was years ago.
I'm curious if there's any advantage at all in SQ. At least the lifetime of the better cooled IC's should increase in theory though.
I will post pics as soon as the thermal adhesive has hardened.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 27, 2011 22:36:24 GMT
DONE!Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive: A bunch of heatsinks: And a PreSonus HP4 amp that got some heatsinks: I can't comment about possible improvements at the moment. I'd very suprised if there would be a big difference (if any). At least it should have no negative effect.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 27, 2011 22:39:16 GMT
BTW: I've noticed that all caps on the HP4 PCB are rated for 105 degrees Celsius. Not bad IMO for an amp as cheap as the HP4.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 23:28:44 GMT
Christian, Thanks for the heads up on the Arctic thermal adhesive. I ordered some up, it was cheaper than any other type I can source from here. I popped some heatsinks onto the OPA134s in my SCHQ DAC, which I've been meaning to do for ages. It's very easy to work with and starts to cure quite quickly. Chris
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Apr 9, 2011 0:44:27 GMT
It's not only cheaper, it's better than the "industrial" type of thermal adhesive you could get otherwise. I've seen also thermal adhesive for sale at a large electronic distribution that will not be sold to private customers because the stuff is VERY toxic.
Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive isn't healthy though, but at least you can use it without much risk for your health.
ASTA is probably the most efficient thermal adhesive available to the rest of us. And probably the only one with a high silver content.
I had a few hard days in the last few weeks and I can't comment on possible improvement in SQ at the moment. I guess that I've heard already some differences, but I'm absolutely NOT sure with that. I need more time. ASTA needs also some time to dry up and will give the best performance after some use.
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Post by teqnotic on Mar 20, 2014 23:39:18 GMT
Not sure if this post is still active, but this is for anyone interested: I got a bug for modding some of my audio gear so I came across this forum and read some great reviews and suggestions for the preSonus HP4. It got me motivated to "Pimp My HP4"... Desoldering passive components and SMD's especially, is not child's play. The PCB is cheap and pads and foil runs can easily lift. 700F degrees is the max I would use to solder components. The HP4 has a great sound even before modding, but even better, more open sounding after modding. I should of done an A/B comparison. If I pick up another HP4 I will record before and after WAV file examples
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