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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 18:28:36 GMT
Mike is absolutely right ! This is how I made my HD650 and Creative Aurvana Live dust filters. Cut a piece of sturdy cardboard to the right shape (smaller then the hole in the pad for the HD650) stretch nylon stocking/sock over a jar or something else that is big enough. Secure it with a rubber band. Put glue on the cardboard ring (everywhere, I used superglue, dries fast) lay the ring on the stretched stocking. Let the glue dry/set. Take it off the jar and trim the edge of the ring. paint the ring (I used a black felt pen). ready.. Does not alter the sound in any way ! There's an easier way to do this. Just pinch the wife's tights, cut them up. Take the pads of the headphone and lightly stretch the tights over the cans. Fix the pads back on. (They will tighten the tights!! Pull from the edges, on the tights to tighten more if you want. Get a pair of scissors, pull the tights out at the edges and trim. When you let go, the tights go flush with the cans. The pads easily hold the stretch tights in place, so you don't need to make a frame, although having a frame makes them re-usable. Personally, I just wash the pads and raid the wife's knickers draw again. Mike, when you've done it, you must show pics. I'd love to know what the wood does to the Grados. For me, they have always been a love/hate thing.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 29, 2010 21:37:02 GMT
I will Ian. It will take me a good few days to apply a nice finish to the wood cups but I will do a dry fit so you can see virgin wood V fully finished wood cups in situ. The construction techniques Grado employ are VERY primitive, everything is held together with hot melt glue and the guy with the glue gun doesn't do a very good job of using it.... the Grado "high end" 'phones are put together exactly the same way which is why I have refused to even contemplate purchasing a pair of RS1 (for example)..... Cable entry points are 2 holes with a cable tie, tied round the cable, which prevents it coming out of the hole..... if you're lucky the bloke with the hot glue gun will fire a bit of glue around the general direction of the "holes" before firing another uneven "glob" intended to stick the housing together..... I've rewired a few pairs of Grados for people and it never ceases to amaze me just how poorly these 'phones are put together.... the general idea is fine but the implimentation is well below par.... where you, or I, would spend time ensuring we applied a uniform bead of glue and paid particular attention to the cable entry holes it seems that the guy with the glue gun at Grado just squirts, and hopes it's enough to get it out the door without falling apart I've read a lot of reviews where the build quality is referred to as "Old World"..... that's a polite way of putting it...... the bulid quality (or should I say the bits you cannot see) is very hit or miss and, quite frankly, all dependant on the mood of the guy sporting the hot melt glue gun. It's very easy to polish a turd, though, just add some wooden cups or a nice metal housing and all the hot melt glue will go unnoticed..... thing is, those cable entry points WILL become loose and with movement comes broken connections..... Most of the Grados I have rewired have come to me with broken connections due to movement.... there should be NO movement of the cable in a well designed pair of headphones...... Compared to the likes of Sennheiser, AKG, Beyer, Audio Technica etc. the Grados are positively neanderthal in build quality.... every pair is unique though as they all have differing amounts of hot melt glue blobs inside them.... All the good European manufacturers employ close tolerance "snap fit" designs but Grado still rely on a bloke sporting a hot melt glue gun to fit them together.... I just cannot understand "why"..... a bayonet locking system would be simple to adopt AND would make for simple servicing should anything inside go tits up..... moulded cable entry grommets are ALSO very easy to put into practice and a lot cheaper to implement than a bloke randomly firing in hot glue here, there and everywhere. I use a lot of glue myself (usually to support a mechanical fixing) and I have the time to ensure that it is applied in the best possible way...... If I were firing glue "all day" (as a job) then I can assure you that my aim would wander from time to time and, the thing is, "quality control" would be none the wiser as all the glueing is internal and, essentially, invisible to the eye.... so once the glue sets and the parts "appear" to be joined it gets a "pass" It's only when you open a Grado headphone up (sometimes easy, pulls apart with your fingers / other times so well glued you destroy the outer part of the housing) that you realise how FLAWED their fixing techniques are. Much the same story with their RA1 headphone amp..... lovely on the outside but a glorified Cmoy, potted in gunk, inside.... Old World craftsmanship or overpriced "new world" rip off? Mutton dressed as lamb?........ I'm not saying a word
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 29, 2010 21:53:43 GMT
Now I understand exactly what they mean with "hand made by Grado"... They only Grado product that I own is a 1/4" jack Y-cable. At least this one does his job.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 5:26:09 GMT
Yes, I've had two fail but then they've been used and abused by kids. I've always thought the bowl arrangement nasty, although you can get used to it. Also the never ending swivel on the cups seem pretty daft. I suppose having wood on the cups and on the housing of their amp gives the impression of quality. The top Grados go over to wood and I've always wondered what effect this would have. The amps sound OK, but then Cmoys aren't too bad. However, the sound of them all is razor sharp, if you like that type of sound. Again, I'm not sure about the top end on them. They're just a tad aggressive for me. I'm wondering whether the wood will tame them a little. (Wood be nice!!!! )
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 1, 2010 1:23:41 GMT
The wood Grados (RS-1, RS-2, HF-1, HF-2, GS1000, etc) are much better balanced and well behave than the plastic Grados.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 5:08:48 GMT
It certainly looks good.
I wonder what the effect would do for the Beyey DT770? Might help mellow it a bit perhaps.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 1, 2010 19:42:20 GMT
Can't wait to get started on this.... the Tung oil / black bison etc. arrived today so ready to rock and roll baby!
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 1, 2010 21:41:52 GMT
I just checked on the US Postal Service site an all it states is: Label/Receipt Number: LC84 1447 758U S Class: First-Class Mail International Service(s): International Letter Status: Acceptance
Your item was accepted at 11:40 AM on June 28, 2010 in MIAMI BEACH, FL 33139. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 1, 2010 22:20:00 GMT
I just checked on the US Postal Service site an all it states is: Label/Receipt Number: LC84 1447 758U S Class: First-Class Mail International Service(s): International Letter Status: Acceptance Your item was accepted at 11:40 AM on June 28, 2010 in MIAMI BEACH, FL 33139. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later. No rush man..... got plenty to keep me occupied before I start slapping tung oil all over the workshop
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Z
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Post by Z on Jul 2, 2010 3:58:18 GMT
I will Ian. It will take me a good few days to apply a nice finish to the wood cups but I will do a dry fit so you can see virgin wood V fully finished wood cups in situ. The construction techniques Grado employ are VERY primitive, everything is held together with hot melt glue and the guy with the glue gun doesn't do a very good job of using it.... the Grado "high end" 'phones are put together exactly the same way which is why I have refused to even contemplate purchasing a pair of RS1 (for example)..... Cable entry points are 2 holes with a cable tie, tied round the cable, which prevents it coming out of the hole..... if you're lucky the bloke with the hot glue gun will fire a bit of glue around the general direction of the "holes" before firing another uneven "glob" intended to stick the housing together..... I've rewired a few pairs of Grados for people and it never ceases to amaze me just how poorly these 'phones are put together.... the general idea is fine but the implimentation is well below par.... where you, or I, would spend time ensuring we applied a uniform bead of glue and paid particular attention to the cable entry holes it seems that the guy with the glue gun at Grado just squirts, and hopes it's enough to get it out the door without falling apart I've read a lot of reviews where the build quality is referred to as "Old World"..... that's a polite way of putting it...... the bulid quality (or should I say the bits you cannot see) is very hit or miss and, quite frankly, all dependant on the mood of the guy sporting the hot melt glue gun. It's very easy to polish a turd, though, just add some wooden cups or a nice metal housing and all the hot melt glue will go unnoticed..... thing is, those cable entry points WILL become loose and with movement comes broken connections..... Most of the Grados I have rewired have come to me with broken connections due to movement.... there should be NO movement of the cable in a well designed pair of headphones...... Compared to the likes of Sennheiser, AKG, Beyer, Audio Technica etc. the Grados are positively neanderthal in build quality.... every pair is unique though as they all have differing amounts of hot melt glue blobs inside them.... All the good European manufacturers employ close tolerance "snap fit" designs but Grado still rely on a bloke sporting a hot melt glue gun to fit them together.... I just cannot understand "why"..... a bayonet locking system would be simple to adopt AND would make for simple servicing should anything inside go tits up..... moulded cable entry grommets are ALSO very easy to put into practice and a lot cheaper to implement than a bloke randomly firing in hot glue here, there and everywhere. I use a lot of glue myself (usually to support a mechanical fixing) and I have the time to ensure that it is applied in the best possible way...... If I were firing glue "all day" (as a job) then I can assure you that my aim would wander from time to time and, the thing is, "quality control" would be none the wiser as all the glueing is internal and, essentially, invisible to the eye.... so once the glue sets and the parts "appear" to be joined it gets a "pass" It's only when you open a Grado headphone up (sometimes easy, pulls apart with your fingers / other times so well glued you destroy the outer part of the housing) that you realise how FLAWED their fixing techniques are. Much the same story with their RA1 headphone amp..... lovely on the outside but a glorified Cmoy, potted in gunk, inside.... Old World craftsmanship or overpriced "new world" rip off? Mutton dressed as lamb?........ I'm not saying a word i wish i knew how to make so much money off such poorly made stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2010 5:17:24 GMT
The amp seems well liked in sound (just like most of these simple topology amps) as do a lot of people prefer/like the sound of Grados. Who cares about the build quality as long as it stays operational and you like what's coming out of it. Granted the HP's do break down more often then others.. IF you paid good money for it it was probably worth it to you ... in this case it's not a rip off ... they just made a lot of money and you bought something you desired. There are lots of similar 'rip-offs' in audioland. Fortunately there are also lots of high value things around !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2010 7:20:41 GMT
The funny thing is that same quality of build goes all the way up to the top of the Grados which is a pity. I'm not sure whether they push the retro look because it attracts a certain type of listener. or whether it's just cheaper to make. I suspect the second option. I have a love/hate feeling for them but this mod may well do something for them. I've never heard a 'woodied' Grado other than the RS1 & 2. They were better in terms of tonal quality but every one of them seems to have a sig that is so strong throughout. (Marmite) I'm really looking forward to seeing Mike's pair and if he dares, his feelings on the sound!! Especially if it's altered. It would get me looking for one if it's more mellow since I like the clarity of sound you get from them. They are crying out for a better casing though and also some proper pads to get the drivers back and allow a little more imaging to take place. The worst for me was the SR325i (Silver version) I had one of the first in this country. No one knew that Grado had changed them until I kicked up. It had slightly more bass but still that same old sig which I find hard to listen to for long periods.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 7, 2010 20:36:27 GMT
The wooden cups arrived the other day, many thanks Miguel I have coated them with tung oil and finished with black bison wax.... they look really nice in the flesh. A slight change of plan.... instead of using Grado SR-80 capsules I have decided to use Grado SR-60 as it will be interesting to see just how much performance can be squeezed out of Grado's entry level headphone. I also have two pairs of SR-60 so can compare the modded SR-60 to the stock versions. Fitting the cups was pretty straightforward, the grilles were secured with epoxy resin and then the outer edges were damped with sticky butyl rubber (great stuff this as it will stick to anything and you can mould it into position with your fingers).... the cups were glued into position with epoxy resin.... pretty much a tight compression fit with a thin film of epoxy sandwiched between the mating surfaces.... To ensure a really comprehensive seal I applied a bead of epoxy around the inner cup which "drizzled" down and formed a seal around the edges of the capsule. The cabling was Evolution Pro starquad and all wiring inside the housings was secured with epoxy so these are now sealed units that will never come apart... however hard you tug the cable My only regret is fitting "red" heat sleeving to the twisted pairs of starquad.... it would have looked a lot better with black but I didn't have any of the right guage in stock in black.... oh well, I'll know better next time! The SR-60 looks lovely in the flesh, here are a few pics which will give you an general idea of how they look: Initial impressions are quite simply "wow".... in a nutshell, the first pair of Grado headphones I've been able to keep on my head for longer than 30 minutes. The wooden cups, butyl rubber damping and recable have most certainly improved the tonal balance. Gone is the slightly fatiguing (in yer face) presentation, replaced by a much more extended "rich" type presentation.... I am thinking of using the term "licourice" for some reason.... they are not chocolaty / syrupy sweet yet they are far from sour.... kind of inbetween. Open and very detailed with a much larger soundstage compared to the stock SR-60.... the wood cups seem to allow the sound to go further out of the head. A totally different animal compared to stock, I could listen to these all night long (and shall do!) I'll report back with more as soon as I've had a good opportunity to compare these with the SR-225 / HD-600.... I am already convinced the "wood" has taken these 'phones to a different planet, compared to the stock SR-60 so will now be concentrating on "how" far it's taken them..... I wouldn't be surprised if these embarrass the HD-600 and SR-225 big time.... this is like no Grado I have heard before, this is something a bit special.... thanks Miguel. Ian, I'll send them over to you for a listen (with a selection of pads).... I'll wait till the aroma of the black bison wax tones down a bit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 21:12:51 GMT
Mike,
You've done a great job on them. They look really good. The red lead doesn't look that bad.
Interesting that you used the SR60. Those ones I actually find easier to get on with with soft pads but they were slightly more aggressive than the SR225 with bowls for me. I couldn't keep then on mu head for long either to be honest.
When I went back to the soft pads, I found them comparatively coloured. With Todd's flat pads just fat and coloured.
If the wood tames them, then they are probably very sharp on percussive sounds with an added warmth and depth which will make them much nicer to listen to.
They look absolutely great Mike. Posh cable and plug too. Is the cable secured inside or is it held by the solder joints? ie; if you accidentally pull the cable, is it stressing the solder joints or is there something behind the wood. It would be a killer to get back in there to fix it.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 7, 2010 21:23:17 GMT
Is the cable secured inside or is it held by the solder joints? ie; if you accidentally pull the cable, is it stressing the solder joints or is there something behind the wood. It would be a killer to get back in there to fix it. OK.... the cable is secured inside the housing with epoxy resin on the back of the magnet (both vent holes kept open)..... I then secured it at the cable entry point with cable tie and epoxy resin.... the cable will NEVER move inside the housing, you could literally tow a car with it and it wouldn't budge.... my BIGGEST gripe about the Grado construction is the poor cable securing method they employ.... trust me, this is bullet proof
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 7, 2010 21:27:43 GMT
Ian.... I will send them over to you this weekend for a listen (if that's ok with you).... a good idea from me to "relax" from them for a few weeks and "then" have a good listen.... it could be that the black bison wax is going to my head.... I'd rather an independent pair of ears had a listen.... I've done my bit putting them together.
Ok with you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 21:31:56 GMT
Such a neat job. I was having a close up look inside the grills to see how you fixed it and can't see it at all. Your stuff is always so neat Mike!!
Weird looking at it and thinking sr60!!!
Weird thing that they used the SR60 drivers in the igrados which are reall fat sounding in comparison to the standard grado. You wouldn't believe that they had the same drivers!!
I had a thought, it could be possible to buy iGrados, take the drivers out and woody them with a new cable - brand new headphone!!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 7, 2010 21:33:03 GMT
By the way, Miguel, will your friend in Spain be selling these cups? If so, I would like 4 pairs.
Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 21:34:26 GMT
Ian.... I will send them over to you this weekend for a listen (if that's ok with you).... a good idea from me to "relax" from them for a few weeks and "then" have a good listen.... it could be that the black bison wax is going to my head.... I'd rather an independent pair of ears had a listen.... I've done my bit putting them together. Ok with you? Mike, I'd love to hear them. You sure you don't want to get a good listen yourself. Good grief, you've only just finished them!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 7, 2010 21:51:51 GMT
[ Good grief, you've only just finished them!! EXACTLY! I put them together so know what went into the build.... 100% confident that they couldn't be put together in a more caring way by anybody on the planet..... I need to be detached from them for a while (does that make sense?).... if I review them now of "course" my review will be biased due to placebo AND because I "know" how well they have been put together. I need to be detached from them now otherwise any "initial" impressions I give may be fuelled by excitement and not fact. Better they go to a neutral pair of ears who will listen to them for what they are. Mike.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 8, 2010 1:19:34 GMT
Mike, I got them from a nice guy in Auriculares.com but I have since closed my account in that forum. BTW, I wish you could go back and add a dab butyl rubber to the back of the magnet to dampen any unwanted vibrations. All you need is an small amount the size of a pea.
In closing they look awesome and I sure hope you enjoy the heck out of them. IMO sometimes small stuff can have important changes in sound. BTW, I ran into an used HE-5 for $480 at Head Fi. Do you want me to pursue them?
Cheers.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 8, 2010 1:20:25 GMT
I will try to find another leather headband so you can replace the palstic stock one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 5:01:13 GMT
A Beyer headband fits them.
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Post by clausdk on Jul 8, 2010 7:40:27 GMT
As soon as I get my sewingmachine back a padded headband will be made and sent Is black OK ?
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 8, 2010 12:19:15 GMT
Mike, I got them from a nice guy in Auriculares.com but I have since closed my account in that forum. BTW, I wish you could go back and add a dab butyl rubber to the back of the magnet to dampen any unwanted vibrations. All you need is an small amount the size of a pea. Maybe we should look for someone that could make small series of wooden cups for a fair amount. I can write a mail to Michael Rhonheimer (the guy that makes violins, see me former posts in this thread). Perhaps he can help us to find someone, in case he isn't interested. I'm rather sure Michael Rhonheimer is already too busy with his violins, but I have no doubt that he knows a lot of people that could help us (and have already the appropriate tools and good wood for acoustic purposes). If this doesn't work out, maybe we should ask a normal carpenter if he could do the job. The modded Grado SR-60's are looking great. The idea from Ian (drivers out of iGrados) is also interesting. I'm almost sure wooden cups make sense also with 'phones from other manufacturers.
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