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Post by PinkFloyd on May 8, 2010 20:27:01 GMT
I measured my source output for DC and it was 0.00mV so decided to remove the 10uF electrolytic Jamicon input coupling caps. Removing these brings about a noticeable increase in clarity it's as if a breath of fresh air has been let into the amp.... the bass, in particular, has benefitted from the removal of these nasty articles and the presentation is also slightly "larger" now.... amazing how the sound can be improved by just removing two el cheapo capacitors!  Basically, all you do is remove them and jumper across the pads with a wire link (or zero ohm resistor). Only do this if you are sure there is no DC at your source's output..... most modern CD players are DC free at the output but it's always worth checking: www.rock-grotto.co.uk/dcoffset.htm Just probe your CD players output phono sockets, the reading should be 0.00mV. 24 hours into the cooking process the tweaks are already paying off. There is a definite improvement to the scale of the sound, there is more meat on the bones (if you like), much better bass response and a lovely 3D like quality to the presentation..... sounds all over the place in your head, vibrant, energetic and extremely detailed and easy to follow each individual component. This is with stock 500mA PSU and stock valves (ECC88). I'm getting quite excited now as I already know what a major improvement the Pinkie / 6H23N makes but I am holding back on employing them in the mix until I am satisfied the amp has been improved dramatically with stock valves / PSU. It's gonna be hard to hold back between mods, I want to do it all NOW but realise that is the wrong way to go about it..... do it all at once and you don't know what (if anything) made an improvement (or, even worse, what made it sound bad!) She is slowly creeping up on the other X-Can amps and I am convinced the V8 can be made to sound the best of them all with widest headstage, best drive, greatest clarity, most "holographic" presentation and most detailed. It will never have the FAT sound of the V1 but will have all the frequencies in proportion and possess that "large" scale , wide, delivery that all really good headphone amps display. Off to do some more listening  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 8, 2010 20:58:55 GMT
I love the 'back to nature' photos. I'm very jealous of that garden. When I first saw my V2 on the bench, I thought there's no way it'll want to come down here!! Yeh, it's a mind blowing garden Ian.... more like a zoo with pheasants, rabbits, doves, a cornucopia of exotic looking birds, moles, stoats..... all sorts of wildlife strutting about the place. Not forgetting the sheep who are lambing at the moment, I've seen 5 sheep give birth in front of my window in the past couple of weeks..... three of them giving birth to twins...... there are cows and calfs in the other field..... the pheasants are swamping the place, I counted 14 in the garden yesterday (they're after the seed I leave out for the greenfinches and bluetits) I bought some "pidgeon" mix for the nesting doves and put a pile of it on the ground so they could peck away...... went out to the workshop earlier this evening and what was there gorging itself on it? A field mouse! Not the first time I have spotted this little bugger, last time I saw him he was half way up a tree eating a fat ball (again, for the birds)..... when he saw me he waddled off into the bushes (so fat from eating all the pidgeon mix he could hardly walk, let alone run  2 weeks ago I put a banana out for the birds..... it was untouched all day..... the next morning it had disappeared!..... local "experts" reckon the stoats would have eaten it during the night. It's all happening out there Ian, never a dull moment! I would NEVER want to live next to "people" ever again..... animals are so much more entertaining and they don't invade your privacy. If you're ever up this way you're welcome to stay..... be warned though, I don't think you'd want to go home  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 11, 2010 22:17:27 GMT
The latest...... the 4 x power resistors...... basically they are 4 x 40ohm in parallel giving a value of 10 ohm...... I see no reason at all why a 5 watt 10 ohm resistor can't do the job here. Yeh, I know that fitting 4 x 5 watt resistors (for example) increases the power rating but, still, 1 x 5 watt resistor is perfectly good here...... As it was:  As it now is:  I will be uprating that 5 watt Shinkoh resistor to a 12 watt Mills non inductive type (as the Mills are non inductive)...... basically, we are getting rid of four wirewound resistors here and using only one (which will end up as a non inductive / Mills 12 watt type) www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mills.htmlMuch better using just one non inductive 10ohm resistor for the job than 4 x 40ohm wirewounds in parallel..... The 9.1 ohm single Shinkoh capacitor that I have installed temporarily (until the 10 ohm Mills resistor arrives) is an audible improvement over the stock 4 x 40ohm wirewound resistors.... It's not a "massive" improvement but I can definitely sense more clarity and a greater degree of "silence" around the components of the music... ie: a lot easier to pick out macro detail without having to concentrate..... I will report back when the 10 ohm Mills non inductive resistor arrives. Prior to this I have been experimenting with the output coupling caps..... the Nichicon MUSE / 1000uF bi polars (non polar) are way better than the Hiatanos in this application, no doubt about it..... they take up more board estate but pay off in the sonic dept..... beautiful, flowing midband (almost ethereal), nice, tight, musical bass and silky smooth treble performance I think I'm ready to send this to Ian so he can do a one to one with his stock V8 and my modded V8..... I am very confident that this series of mods has taken the V8P to a totally new level of performance  A few more bits and pieces to do, I will report back as soon as they are complete.  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 13, 2010 21:00:06 GMT
OK.... now we are starting to motor! The 10ohm Mills 12 watt resistor has been fitted (to replace the 4 x 40ohm wirewound jobs)  She runs as cool as a cucumber, she is non-inductive and the one Mills resistor does the same job as the four x 40ohm (in parallel) wirewound types..... there is definitely an improvement to the overall sound with the 1 x Mills resistor in place.... a lot more space around things with an inky black silence between passages being the most noticeable.... the bass seems to have become more realistic in that you feel it is "external" to the headphones.... you'd swear there was an external subwoofer attached.... fantastic I am slowly working my way around the ceramic caps and replacing them with WIMA polypropylene types... it's now at the stage where further tweaks only bring about subtle improvements but each little subtle improvement improves the SQ as a "whole".... I just cannot believe that I am listening to the same amp, it is now MIND BLOWING! The first two ceramics to go (220pF):  I am also working my way round the small value electrolytics and have replaced the 1uF electrolytics with 1uF WIMA polypropylenes:  You will see the 1uF WIMA's in place from the overhead photo of the amp:  Again, this takes the sound to another level..... the more electrolytics that can be replaced by film caps the better! I am also working on replacing ALL of the metallised polyester film caps with EVOX PMR 400 series polypropylene types.... to date I have replaced the 3 x metallised polyester adjacent to the transistors but will gradually work my way across the board:  There are also a few more wirewound resistors which I will be replacing with Shinkho (carbon) types..... these have a nice tone and I think they will fit in nicely with the rest of the mods..... a case of suck it and see but I will report back with my findings. As it stands, the V8P has gone from "acceptable" sounding to absolutely "eargasm in a box" status.... so much so I will NOT be offering this as a prize, this is now my number one amp..... I will probably offer up my previous "number 1" amp (the fully modded WAD HD-83) as a prize in a competition which will be announced shortly..... It's not fair that I have all these amps kicking about gathering dust so will offer the WAD HD-83 along with a lifetime's supply of Mullard ECL83 valves (original cartons / NEVER used)..... The story behind the WAD HD-83 I will be offering as a prize is here: rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=b&action=display&thread=4940&page=1Anyways.... back on topic...... I will continue to mod the ARSE out of the V8P and will keep you updated with my findings.... I am really going to town on this one and hope this thread will be of interest to V8 owners wishing to extract the maximum performance out of their own amp. I haven't even "mentioned" the DAC section yet but will get round to that as soon as I am finished maxing out the amp section (There are a LOT of easy / cheap improvements that can be made to the DAC section of the V8) Stay tuned! Mike. PS: Am I the only bugger in this thread or are any of you watching? |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 13, 2010 21:12:10 GMT
Before you ask....... My top 5 of ALL time (for musicality): 1: X-CAN V1 2: HEED CanAmp 3: WNA MKlll 4: X-CAN V2 5: The CMoy I didn't mention the WAD HD-83 in my top 5 as it wasn't really fair comparing it with "budget" amps..... I will now adjust my top 5 to reflect amps of ALL price ranges. 1: Modded X-CAN V8 2: WAD HD-83 (Modded) 3: X-CAN V1 (modded) 4: HEED CanAmp (modded) 5: X-CAN V2 (Modded) |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 21:37:36 GMT
Curiosity always gets the better of me when you post these pictorials.
I sometimes even read the words too ! ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 22:57:48 GMT
I'm watching! Just waiting for the definitive recipe  Just hope I can get all the bits in due course. The V8 is the only one of my MF amps I don't listen to much. It would be good to change that. Syd |
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Post by clausdk on May 13, 2010 23:36:04 GMT
I think so  No I follow it and plans to mod my V8, when you are through and I can get a shopping list..  As always nice pictures, it always looks fantastic in your garden.. |
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Post by dejanm on May 14, 2010 6:47:58 GMT
Brief comment on these replacements where 4 or 2 passive elements are replaced with only one.
Sometimes there is a reason why 4 resistors for example are put instead of only 1. Dividing current in 4 similar intensities and putting corresponding power of resistors reduces considerably the chance of blowing the resistor in a circuit part where that can be an issue under certain conditions. If you want to replace these 4 resistors with only one, than the resistor power should be 4 times greater than of one previously used. But that is also not a good practice. Better solution would be to use two resistors (Mills - which are excellent) with more power than doubled resistor power of previously used resistors. In that case the security issues will be still adressed.
The similar can be said for replacements of caps. I do not know the exact configuration so I cann't put a good comment on that ... but 1 cap of total capacity of previous two caps, doesn't necesarily mean a better solution. Again, it should be figured out why they used two caps instead of only one. It's not all about simplifying the signal path - some consideration has to be put into security issues.
The sound improvements probably are the consequence of better parts which have less parasitic side efects. I am also strongly recommending the usage of Caddock resistors, because they bring clarity and neutrality.
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 14, 2010 9:51:05 GMT
Sometimes there is a reason why 4 resistors for example are put instead of only 1. Dividing current in 4 similar intensities and putting corresponding power of resistors reduces considerably the chance of blowing the resistor in a circuit part where that can be an issue under certain conditions. If you want to replace these 4 resistors with only one, than the resistor power should be 4 times greater than of one previously used. There were 4 x 2.5 watt resistors (10 watt), the Mills is a 12 watt type so perfectly OK using just the one. Output coupling caps. MF use two x 470uF non polars in parallel per channel making a total of 940uF per channel. One x 1000uF non polar does exactly the same job and, IMO does a BETTER job. Sure, you could go down the belt and braces route and fit 10 x 100uF in parallel with the idea that if one failed you would still have nine protecting you..... similarly you could fit 10 x resistors in parallel with the same idea in mind..... if one fails there will still be 9 in circuit..... I have yet to see a failed output coupling capacitor in any X-CAN amplifier so, IMO, 1 x 1000uF is absolutely fine. I believe that 1 x 12 watt Mills resistor is far better than 4 x 2.5 watt wirewound resistors in parallel.... they're military spec after all! "The all weld axial construction boasts an alumina ceramic core with a Nickel-Copper element, Silver plated Copper end-caps, and tinned Copper leads. Aryton-Perry winding reduces inductive reactance and signal loss. These resistors exceed MIL-R-26E specs. All resistor values are 1% tolerance. Mills 12 watt resistors possess a big power handling for their size.They will handle overloads 10X its power rating (120 watts) for 5 seconds with operating voltages up to 1,000 VAC. " Again, I have had no experience of a Mills resistor failing so am perfectly happy to use one of them instead of 4 x inductive wirewound jobbies. Mike. |
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Post by krisno on May 16, 2010 12:38:56 GMT
I read it Mike. Nice work and many clever ideas.
I think the V8 looks very good in general, so its nice if it would sound good also. If your mod brings it forward it probably is the best one.
But when you rate this as your number 1 amp, is it with stock tubes or with the russians?
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on May 27, 2010 14:07:19 GMT
How much you guys bought the offer X-Can V8P? Might be tempted to buy one if cheap. Thanks.  |
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Post by krisno on May 28, 2010 14:01:21 GMT
Mike. Does the mod bring the V8 forward? And why does the V8 have so littel details? Is it the tubes used, or the DAC ( i never tried it on standalone CDP).
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Post by charlie on Jun 1, 2010 9:57:08 GMT
Hi Mike
Fascinating read, the V8 has clearly evolved into something far greater than you expected and the journey has not yet ended.
How much of the circuit boards mods you have been implementing on the V8 could be carried across to the V3 e.g. as a premium upgrade pack over the standard caps/diodes mods. What benefits has the move away from your usual Panasonic caps brought?
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Post by twinster on Jul 25, 2010 3:21:24 GMT
Hello Mike
How hard is it to removed the cap's? I remember reading in another post that it was glued and hard to removed. Also are you going to offer the upgrade parts in a kit for the V8?
Thank you
Simon
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Post by vilu86 on Apr 3, 2011 21:48:37 GMT
Hi
I would like to know where this project is at the moment. Since i need to change the tube sockets in my v8, i am thinking that why not to do some other mods as well.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 3, 2011 22:45:29 GMT
Hi I would like to know where this project is at the moment. Since i need to change the tube sockets in my v8, i am thinking that why not to do some other mods as well. Do you have a camera? If so, this "project" is a GO Let's see where you are at at the moment (upload pics) and I will guide you through things Mike. |
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Post by vilu86 on Apr 4, 2011 20:01:38 GMT
Still figuring where to order components. Do you have links other shops than Hifi Collective that ships to Finland? Hifi collective have Nichicon FGs and Elna Cerafines in 35volts. Do you think that i should go with those in original capacity since i didn´t find any bigger than 2200uf in their site.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 4, 2011 20:30:13 GMT
Still figuring where to order components. Do you have links other shops than Hifi Collective that ships to Finland? Hifi collective have Nichicon FGs and Elna Cerafines in 35volts. Do you think that i should go with those in original capacity since i didn´t find any bigger than 2200uf in their site. I can supply you with all of the capacitors.... I have some nice panasonic NHG 3300uF / 35V in stock at the moment.... if you want me to supply them let me know and I'll put something together for you. Mike. |
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Post by vilu86 on Apr 4, 2011 21:04:45 GMT
That would be great. Can you send me a pm with some prices for caps and good tube sockets.
Ville
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 4, 2011 21:06:35 GMT
That would be great. Can you send me a pm with some prices for caps and good tube sockets. Ville Sure, I'll work out exactly what you need. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2011 16:50:15 GMT
Mike,
Have you outed the V8 now or still have it? I just wanted to ask whether you get a really low level hiss on low impedance cans from it, or whether I need to get the tubes out.
I must have missed these posts. Never realised you got it up to standard in the end!! I suspected you would, but I seem remember you getting rid of it in the end.
Don't like to fiddle unless I have to!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 5, 2011 21:12:20 GMT
Mike, Have you outed the V8 now or still have it? I just wanted to ask whether you get a really low level hiss on low impedance cans from it, or whether I need to get the tubes out. I must have missed these posts. Never realised you got it up to standard in the end!! I suspected you would, but I seem remember you getting rid of it in the end. Don't like to fiddle unless I have to!! Ian, Send her over to me, I will turbo charge the arse out of it for you..... I have recently taken delivery of 800 Panasonic 35V / 3300uF caps and want to use them baby! No need for you to start fiddling (unless it's a violin) I'll rosin up my bow and do a performance for you Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2011 22:12:09 GMT
Mike, That's really generous of you. I got all stirred up tonight when I saw it top of your list! With an SE it'll become the dog's gonads. I'll box it ASAP. I'm working next week and won't be able to concentrate now!  Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 19:00:50 GMT
Hopefully, Madam V8 knocked on the door today Mike. I'm really looking forward to hearing what you do; especially on the end of the SE!!
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