elysion
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Post by elysion on May 31, 2010 17:48:56 GMT
I haven't tested much with the new amps. But the Neco Portable V.2 is a great amp for sure. The Mosfet can be slightly better sometimes, but I don't think it's a day-and-night difference.
If you are already satisfied with the portable, then I guess you don't have a real reason to buy the Mosfet also, at least regarding the sound quality.
If you are on a budget, I wouldn't buy the Mosfet if you have already the portable. But if you have the money: Then go for the Mosfet, it's a nice addition to the portable. A perfect team. One for the desktop, one for on the road use. The portable is also a good desktop amp since it drives most headphones easily.
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Post by rainman on May 31, 2010 19:40:11 GMT
Which headphones were you comparing with Christian? Is that with the HD650? To be honest, I am on a budget. I was when I got the V Can, but I like the difference in sound it offers, as depending on my mood, I sometimes like the brighter less subtle (that's to the guys at What Hi Fi) sound.
But if the Mosfet is only slightly better than the already-excellent 9v portable, then I'd rather keep the cash. Would I get more benefit from (at some point, maybe) having a pair of k701s to compliment the HD650, than having the Mosfet to compliment the portable.
This might seem like an odd question, but money is always an issue, and I can't seem myself having both the Mosfet and k701s. I have no plans to purchase a 701, but just wondering what addition (if any) would offer the most enjoyment..
Omar
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elysion
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Post by elysion on May 31, 2010 20:26:09 GMT
I think it's best to stay for you with the 9V portable at the moment. The benefit that the Mosfet offers isn't as big as the price difference.
I'm mostly listening with the K702 and HD25-1/II at the moment. The HD650 also very good with both Neco amps. HD650's are very good 'phones. I like the K702 more though and the HD25-1/II is my prefered portable headphone.
The V-Can is not a bad amp at all. But it's somewhat incomplete in stock configuration. It's a very good design, that runs below its possibilites – because the MF have used so many cheap parts to lower cost and to generate more out-of-warranty repairs.
In your setup a good source would result in the best overall improvement. The Behringer UCA222 and the AUNE Nano USB DAC offer quite good value. There are better sources around, that doesn't mean they are better in every regard.
In the end it's all the same with 'phones, amps, DACs and sources: What is good depends on your needs, your taste, the music you are hearing and of course what components you already have and last but not least: How much money do you want to spend on it?
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 31, 2010 21:42:59 GMT
Which headphones were you comparing with Christian? Is that with the HD650? To be honest, I am on a budget. I was when I got the V Can, but I like the difference in sound it offers, as depending on my mood, I sometimes like the brighter less subtle (that's to the guys at What Hi Fi) sound. But if the Mosfet is only slightly better than the already-excellent 9v portable, then I'd rather keep the cash. Would I get more benefit from (at some point, maybe) having a pair of k701s to compliment the HD650, than having the Mosfet to compliment the portable. This might seem like an odd question, but money is always an issue, and I can't seem myself having both the Mosfet and k701s. I have no plans to purchase a 701, but just wondering what addition (if any) would offer the most enjoyment.. Omar Omar, You have e-mailed me a few times and PM'ed me but I haven't had the decency to send you a reply (I've been going through a bit of a personal battle with myself).... I haven't been following this thread through and I'm not too sure where we are but am happy to send you a fully modded (X-Tra capacitance / OPA4134) V-Can to try out.... if nothing else, it will give you an idea of the "subleties" between stock and modded. PM me with your details and I'll send her over to you. There is NEVER going to be a HUGE difference between components, the law of diminishing returns always kicks in once you reach a certain level of performance. What you have to ask yourself is "what type of presentation" are you looking for?..... if you are looking for a very bassy, rock like presentation then a pair of 'phones such as the Superlux HD-681 and a Cmoy may suffice but if you're looking for an analytical type listen then more specialised equipment may be necessary. There are no rights or wrongs, what sounds right to you IS right for your own personal set of ears. I recently bought a Samsung series 7 LED TV and all the reviews said "crap sound quality"..... I tend to disagree! The presentation is extremely neutral / well balanced and extends a GOOD 3 metres beyond either side of the TV.... to me, this is FANTASTIC but to others it may not even be noticed as they may be expecting a Boom Tizz extravaganza. Tell us what type of presentation you are looking for.... what music do you listen to? How do you "expect" that music to sound.... how would you, ideally, like it to sound? We can talk all day about amps, sources and headphones and get absolutely NOWHERE.... tell us about your musical tastes and "how" you would like them presented (ie: warts and all / Coloured but musical / detailed / analytical / nice and bassy / neutral etc. etc. etc.) No point you buying a pair of K-701 if you like Reggae (for example).... if you like classical then, maybe..... Soooooo...... give us an idea of your musical tastes. Mike.
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Post by rainman on May 31, 2010 22:05:29 GMT
Thanks Christian,
I think I'll go for the UCA222. But is there much between the Aune Nano? The Behringer is very cheap so might order one tonight.. If there's not much between them, then the cheap cost of the Behringer and the fact that it is USB powered (using with laptop) would swing it for me.
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Post by rainman on May 31, 2010 23:26:46 GMT
Hi Mike, Thanks for getting back to me. No worries about the late reply. I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through a difficult time right now; I really do hope you get through your troubles. I listen to a lot of genres. I like hip hop (but not pop-rap as is nowadays the popular alternative), rock, electronic, trance (from the late ‘90s very early 10s) and some pop music. I also like some soft stuff like Enya. I like my music with a lot of detail, but not ‘warts and all’. I don’t like it too analytical as I personally find this can be a little tiring, and not as enjoyable. I’ve always been a fan of the Senn sound. I’ve tried Grado SR60s on two occasions, wanting to love the sound, BUT it just was not for me. I like a warm sound BUT with lots of detail, and a wide soundstage. I love lots of bass, but not the kind that is always there, even when it is not required. My Bose On Ears can be like this. I like something neutral, but definitely with a good kick at the bottom end. That’s why I loved the HD650s when I tried them; I realise many people say they have too much bass, but I definitely don’t share the same opinion. I liked the soundstage, which was the first thing I noticed on them. I’m just waiting patiently for them to burn in, as my brand new phones don’t sound the same as the demo pair in the shop. I found the Neco V2 portable to be very nice, but mine is not yet burnt in as I have not had as much opportunity to use them recently as I would have liked. (Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what to expect after a good burn in- I found huge differences with my ‘V1 bass boost’, but my Senn HD555s were also new when I got the amp, so they both ran in together). While I do REALLY like the laid back sound of the Neco, sometimes I am in the mood for a brighter sound. Not Grado bright, but bright through the HD650. I like the V Can for this. I find that the V Can has enough bass with the HD650, and has the brightness too. It sounds almost harsh, but when I’m in the mood, I like this. I personally, though from limited experience, find the V Can compliments the Neco quite well with it’s different sound signature. Although if I had to have one over the other, it would be the Neco! Anyway, sorry for the incoherent explanation, but that is the sound I like. Warm, rich, deep bass, good detail, wide soundstage. This might seem like a lot to ask for, but all the reviews and comment pointed me in the direction of the HD650; and hearing was believing. I love the sound of them, though as aforementioned, I am waiting for my new pair to catch up with the burned in demo pair. I like the sound of the Neco portable, and just because of that started thinking more about the Mosfet. I considered it before purchasing the portable, but with no regret, decided that I would get more use from the portable for its portability. I don’t regret the V Can purchase as I like the alternative sound it offers. But I’m not “wanting” another amp- had the Neco Mosfet not existed, I would not be writing this. Neco told me that the Mosfet has a more laid back sound, which to be honest, having the HD650, is not something I am craving for, as I think they are already laid back and relaxed. I assume that an even more laid back amp may make the HD650 sound a tad too dark, but please do correct me if I’m wrong. The only thing I find that I want is that same sound I heard from the demo pair- the sounded a bit clearer, from memory, assuming my memory is as clear as I recall he phones were Sorry if I’ve been waffling. Thanks for you kind offer to send me a modded V Can to try out! You said that the differences are subtle, though.. Thanks Omar
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Post by noobiiee on May 31, 2010 23:57:52 GMT
That's why I'm in love with this combination. The sound comes out is smooth as hell. Give me multiple eargasm But if you're on a tight budget and already satisfied with the Portable, stick with it and get it a new DAC. As you improve each part of your system, the sound of the HD650 will scale up too. EDIT: I've just ordered the V-Can, the 60 quid price tag is irresistible btw, did any follow the K340 auction on ebay this evening?
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Post by rainman on Jun 1, 2010 0:13:07 GMT
From what I read the HD650 keeps improving as the rest of the system gets better. I am satisfied with the portable, though still not burned in yet.. Ideally, I would like to have the Mosfet too, but then leave it at that and never buy another amp again Based on all the comments it appears to be a good best friend for the portable Maybe I should just order one before Neco stops making them..? Edit: You won't be disappointed with the V Can, especially for £60. It was far too tempting for to me as I was able to just walk into my local Superfi store and try one out
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Post by noobiiee on Jun 1, 2010 0:33:47 GMT
the upgraditis will always come back, it's just the matter of how long You will soon start wondering what a Woo tube amp sounds like or what would happen if you hook you MOSFET with the CA DAC magic etc etc ahh
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Post by rainman on Jun 1, 2010 0:53:11 GMT
Yeah it's an evil virus that grabs you by your feet and drags you under the bed before mugging you.. So maybe I should just go for the Mosfet while Neco is still building them..?? Though if he continues for the foreseeable future, maybe there will be more upgrades to the amp itself..
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Post by noobiiee on Jun 1, 2010 1:38:17 GMT
go for it if your wallet can take it. Plus Neco will also give returning customer discount. I got the AD8620 opamps for free, making my mosfet even more value.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2010 16:08:56 GMT
go for it if your wallet can take it. Plus Neco will also give returning customer discount. I got the AD8620 opamps for free, making my mosfet even more value. Neco certainly will offer a slight discount if you return which is rather nice of him. I am getting another portable from him but he is lowering the gain so if you wait another day or so, I can report back about the gain with the Sennheiser HD650 and lower impedance. The earlier ones are set at a gain of 5 but I contacted Neco regarding the gain of my second one, since I wanted it lower for more sensitive headphones. He's changing the type of volume pot and lowering the gain to 3. If this works with low impedance headphones (which i think it will) and also with the HD650, this would be the gain to ask for before getting an older version with the higher gain. I find at lower volumes, I'm on the cusp of poor volume tracking. This has fast become the amp that I use most often with my Ipods. Fantastic sound for the money.
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Post by rainman on Jun 2, 2010 1:55:21 GMT
Hi Rabbit, Yeah Neco does look after his previous customers. Great guy to deal with! I would be curious to know how the lower gain is with the HD650. I find the gain on the portable absolutely fine with the 300 ohm Senns, but I understand the Mosfet has more power behind it, so may benefit more from lower gain. I wonder if there would be any SQ sacrifice in having a gain switch in the amp. Maybe I could suggest this to Neco to know if it is practical or not.. Sorry Rabbit, did you say you already have a Mosfet?? I forget who has which equipment.. I really would like to go for the Mosfet. Maybe better to just take the plunge rather than spend hours thinking about it.. But I'm also curious to know what further improvements may fall upon the Mosfet in the near future. Neco told me that the V2 portable is pretty much finalised as far as upgrades go. But I suppose owners could roll opamps, should they wish to try a different sound, as I believe it has a socket on the board. Yeah, I might just go for it and call it a day. Maybe that'll fight the upgraditis bug off for the next year or so.. at least as far as amps go Btw, has anyone here been able to compare the Neco Mosfet to the Graham Slee Solo?? Omar
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 11:43:26 GMT
Hi Omar, This thread is supposedly the V2 portable. I know what you mean about the mosfet/portable thing. Sometimes, it's difficult to work out which one people are talking about. I have the lower gain one here now as well as my old higher gain one. The lower gain one is at 3 with a linear pot and the older one has a gain of 5 with a log pot. It also has a higher capacity battery and two 8610's inside. The log pot is more subtle once it is further up the scale, but they suffer from poor tracking at lower settings. The linear pot comes on a bit more suddenly (as they often do) but the tracking is perfect down to zero. Neco, lowered the gain in order to make the linear a bit more subtle on the way up if you see what I mean. I prefer the linear pot because I can listen at lower levels with low impedance headphones now. There is absolutely no tracking problem whatsoever. The weird thing about the gain is although it's now at 3, it's still amazingly loud!!! I wrote to Neco and asked about a gain of 2!!! It drives the Sennheiser HD650 with absolute ease at a gain of 3. However, it now also works well with px100 or ATm50's which are much lower impedance. It even works with Klipsch earbuds. I wouldn't mind the gain being even lower!!!! I do prefer the linear pot though because the gain is absolutely even now. Ian
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Post by rainman on Jun 2, 2010 14:08:22 GMT
Hi Ian, Yeah I forgot where I posted that quesion; but I've left it on the Mosfet thread now.. That's interesting, as I though the volume would drop 40%. And that's with the 9v The linear POT sounds like a good idea. My V1 has a much more subtle tracking issue, so subtle that with 50 ohm HD555s it wasn't as issue; it was definately there, but did not cause any inconvenience as it tracked fine at such a low volume. Neco explained after I got the V2 that he used different POTs in the single opamp V1. Using high impedance phones might mean that the linear POT's more sudden increases may not be such an issue; but that 's only an assumption. I'm curious as to what improvements Neco is planning for the Mosfet in the near future.. Omar
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Post by rainman on Jun 2, 2010 14:16:33 GMT
I haven't tested much with the new amps. But the Neco Portable V.2 is a great amp for sure. The Mosfet can be slightly better sometimes, but I don't think it's a day-and-night difference. If you are already satisfied with the portable, then I guess you don't have a real reason to buy the Mosfet also, at least regarding the sound quality. If you are on a budget, I wouldn't buy the Mosfet if you have already the portable. But if you have the money: Then go for the Mosfet, it's a nice addition to the portable. A perfect team. One for the desktop, one for on the road use. The portable is also a good desktop amp since it drives most headphones easily. Hi Christian, How would you describe the differences between the 9v and the Mosfet? In terms of sound quality, and anything else audible? Particularly with the HD650s, but please comment on any other phones too, if they run differently.. I kind of am on a budget at the moment.. but the Mosfet keeps calling me But I know how subtle the improvements in SQ become once you reach a certain point; and the 9v has to be at that point- it's so good! But then, Neco did shock with just how good the portable is... Omar
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 21:39:55 GMT
I'm curious as to what improvements Neco is planning for the Mosfet in the near future.. Omar It looks as though he's going to retain the more subtle log pots in the Mosfet but the ones he wants to use are more expensive so that the tracking isn't such an issue at the bottom of the scale. It could make them a little more expensive. He says that he will be changing it over the next week to two weeks. I quite like the linear pot in the portable. It's fine with both low and high impedance headphones. Still loud. Neco feels that the Mosfet is better than the portable. He thinks that it's not as harsh in the treble. Same kind of power.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 2, 2010 23:14:35 GMT
I can approve that the linear pot of my Portable V.2 is just as Ian has described. Still lots of power (my gain here is 3.5 according to Neco), I'm sure it can drive any 'phones I have easily.
I have also got a second Mosfet V.2 (linear pot with gain 3).
My main problem at the moment is time: Too much new gear at once for testing and some trouble at work which consumes also time... I need a couple of days for more accurate feedback...
I have only tested the log pot Mosfet V.2 seriously and the linear pot Portable V.2 is my second choice at the moment. The linear pot Mosfet V.2 is the next thing on my to do list.
IMO the Mosfet V.2 is slightly better than the Portable V.2. More laid back and somewhat warmer and softer. Together with the Behringer FCA202 and K702 I have absolutely no harshness, just headphone heaven. But I'm really impressed how close the Portable is regarding SQ. The Portable is the better value, but the Mosfet is closer to absolute perfection.
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Post by rainman on Jun 3, 2010 12:37:48 GMT
IMO the Mosfet V.2 is slightly better than the Portable V.2. More laid back and somewhat warmer and softer. Together with the Behringer FCA202 and K702 I have absolutely no harshness, just headphone heaven. But I'm really impressed how close the Portable is regarding SQ. The Portable is the better value, but the Mosfet is closer to absolute perfection. That's interesting, because right now I wasn't desiring an even more laid back sound, at least not with the HD650. If SQ is VERY close (?), and the only difference is the warmth and laid back(ness) of the Mosfet, then maybe there's no cause for me to get one. At least not just yet... I think better LOG POTs would be worth the extra cost; they couldn't out the price up to silly money, but they would definitely sort out the amp's only real flaw.. Btw, has anyone been able to compare this portable (or the Mosfet) to the Aune DAC. I read Mike's very impressed write up on that. Sounds like the Aune trumps the GS Solo!
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 3, 2010 13:08:17 GMT
The difference between the Mosfet and the Portable is small as long as you use the same opamps for both.
I don't have an AUNE amp, but the built-in DAC is nice. The AUNE is also a very good value.
IMO the Neco's are a somewhat more elegant design (not only regarding their look).
Maybe it's better if you get a good source first. I hope you are pleased with the UCA222 but remember it's on the lower end. You can still go for something better later. Maybe a couple of different 'phones with varied character is also something to look at later.
Beside my old MB-Quart Quartphones 200 I was long a Sennheiser only man and had the HD580 (for very long time) and the HD650. I could refine my taste a lot since I have a good headphone collection around.
Of course it's a very good idea to invest into a Mosfet amp – it's simply a question of how much you are willing to spend (on what). The AUNE is particularly interesting because you also get a good source with the built-in DAC. That could be a drawback of the Neco, but in fact this was another reason for me to get the Neco's. I have already couple of amps without built-in DACs and therefore discrete DACs are better for me since I can use them with all my amps.
I know, it's not always easy to make the right decision when buying new gear. My greatest bummer with audio gear was the Native Instruments Audio 4 DJ DAC and the UCA222 was probably the biggest bargain.
Maybe you should also have a look at the various Superlux 'phones and the Samson SR850. They are very cheap and will allow you to expand your headphone armory without spending to much. I paid for my SR850 58CHF (about 34£) and the Superlux 'phones are even cheaper. I can't get the Superlux 'phones directly in Switzerland and with postage they would get more expensive than the SR850 which is well available here. According the ClausDK the SR850 is better than the HD681 (he's the only here that has owned both). Claus can't compare further since he has modded his SR850 with other drivers (it's not a SR850 anymore...).
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Post by clausdk on Jun 3, 2010 17:32:43 GMT
According the ClausDK the SR850 is better than the HD681 (he's the only here that has owned both). Claus can't compare further since he has modded his SR850 with other drivers (it's not a SR850 anymore...). I LIKE the 850s more than 681, if it is better is hard to say, but the signature of the 850 suits me better than the 681. I have a suspesion that the 850 are the 681 in the neutral version...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2010 20:52:44 GMT
Well, i changed my mind and decided to give the portable a go, arrived today, complete with high Amp battery, 3.5 gain and log volume pot and my initial impression is Wow!!, this is a great sounding little Amp, will be taking it away with me for the rest of the month, hopefully get a few hours on it by the time i get back. I think i am going to like this better than its big brother The knob is going to be replaced though, don`t like the big hole in it, and no reference line on the front, soon sort that!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 8, 2010 22:04:58 GMT
Well, i changed my mind and decided to give the portable a go, arrived today, complete with high Amp battery, 3.5 gain and log volume pot and my initial impression is Wow!!, this is a great sounding little Amp, will be taking it away with me for the rest of the month, hopefully get a few hours on it by the time i get back. I think i am going to like this better than its big brother The knob is going to be replaced though, don`t like the big hole in it, and no reference line on the front, soon sort that!! Yeh, it's a nice little amp, glad you are enjoying it Mick....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2010 18:06:09 GMT
Hi Mick,
Neco's left the log pots on? I thought he was changing them all to linear because of tracking at the bottom.
Mine's at 3 and it still has an awful lot of kick in it. It could perhaps go down further to 2. Once the gain is down, the linear pot tracks well although it is still quite sudden coming in with low impedance headphones.
Still at 3.5, with high impedance, it's fine and the log pot is more subtle. I have another one at gain 5 with log pots so I use it with my Senns and the other one at a gain of 3 with low impedance headphones.
They're a great buy.
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Post by UzminiNu on Aug 26, 2010 1:08:52 GMT
Got today the Neco portable amp V2 with the 8610 dual amps and the powerful battery and yes it sounds amazing:D.
Looking for a better and higher quality soundcard after replacment, because of the faulty behringer uca 202 soundcard.Sound is beautiful and smooth but produces crackling and popping and it goes back to germany fuhr thomann:).
With Neco amp Im using the Superlux HD681 they are amazing!Own the Superlux HD660 the sound is moore neutral not so much bass like the HD681.With the neco amp its possible to enjoy every kind of a headphone even the Sennheiser HD515 are now alive and wonderful sounding!
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