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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 18:52:21 GMT
That is certainly a very sensible statement Ian, be nice if all could be singing from the same Hymn book when trying to evaluate HP`s, Amps etc, even if it was just a single track, and not necessarily YELLO, but they certainly explore the full range of sounds available.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 19:28:39 GMT
That is certainly a very sensible statement Ian, be nice if all could be singing from the same Hymn book when trying to evaluate HP`s, Amps etc, even if it was just a single track, and not necessarily YELLO, but they certainly explore the full range of sounds available. Mick. The thing is that we all know recordings that excel at certain things so we tend to use them as a reference if you like. However, if your own personal reference is different, then you may well get different results with the same set up. Maybe we all need to build a reference library for different purposes!! One for bass, treble, mid response, spacial clues, attack and decay, plus a sample from each genre. I don't know. That could well be why we all hear such different things. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 22:08:15 GMT
I love that!!! Made me laugh. 'I'm still with the programme'. Makes me feel like a mini professor!!! If it gets you listening to music that's really good. It may change how you regard other bands' work too perhaps. The Yello stuff sort of grows on you and you hear new subtleties in the mix each time you hear it. I'm glad you enjoyed it Syd. Maybe we'll all have all of the Yello albums now as a reference to judge equipment!!!! We can all listen to the same pieces to evaluate gear. At least we would all know what we're listening out for then. Ian It has got me listening. Stuff people have recommended, I bought and it didn't catch my interest I'm now digging out and replaying hearing things that I didn't pay attention to prior to now. Set pieces sounds like a great idea if there was a thread explaining why they have been chosen! Syd
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 20:11:27 GMT
Touch This is a lovely album with top notch recorded sound. The songs are well crafted and the album as a whole works well. For me it is a one of my reference recordings that I now use to test equipment. I'll just outline track 1 for now. The Expert Opens with a ‘vocal rhythm’ including sniffs that are also part of the duet. The first vocal rhythm is in a the form of a ‘riff’ where he’s humming as well with the sound and the second vocal is the percussive element. Actually, the second vocal part is imitating a conga rhythm where the word ‘Ka’ is a substitute for what is known as a ‘slap’ sound on the conga. (A high pitched sound you get by cupping your hands when you hit it) A little syncopated rhythm comes in and a very deep bass sound plays a glissando going down before the snare plays a fill to take us into the real riff. There’s a bass chromatic riff and a synth brass sound, a ‘funky’ guitar pattern with percussion and slaps going on. Dieter goes into one of his mono-tones, low down. A short link where an organ does some ‘comping’ and then sounds are taken suddenly out of the mix when Dieter continues the second verse. It has a much emptier backdrop with just a high hat accompanying him. The riff returns with the opening vocal riff being played as well. An answering bass riff appears before he raps the next verse and an instrumental link. There are loads of sounds coming in and out of this mix. There is then an instrumental section. The bass riff keeps going and vocal percussion joins in before a lonely synth melody at the top over the riff and some female vocalists join in. The next verse is two voices in unison and it is answered by a guitar. They are answered by guitar and low grunts before the next verse in unison again. The punch line is solo before the girls join in again and then another final verse before a low glissando and the girls finish the piece with no percussion at all. I love this opening number because it has such a wide range of sounds in the mix and the stereo placing is quite different with the voices on the edge of the left/right stereo and the guitar riffing dead centre with the bass line. It has the Yello humour, their brilliant mixing skills and with some fantastically tight rhythms. This is very accurate stuff and played with precision. Sounds come and go so easily in the mix that it’s really easy to miss them. Ian
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Post by elysion on May 7, 2010 16:38:08 GMT
I stumbled across a new interview with Dieter Meier: www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kultur/kunst/Jeder-Mensch-ist-Gott/story/11683140I'm sorry, it's totally written in German. Translating it appropriate while keeping it as close to the original text would be quite a lot of work for me, so I translate only the title for the moment: "Every human is god" It's not all about his music, but also about his other projects and I would describe the interview as philosophical. He sees himself more as an artist than only as musician. For those unable to understand the German text: Look at the pictures in the article. They show some (early) parts of Dieter Meier's work as an artist (rare pics from the 70's). Dieter Meier doesn't give a lot of interviews at all. But interviews with Boris Blank are even more rare. @iancraig10/Mike: many, many thanks for this great thread
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 16:57:11 GMT
I stumbled across a new interview with Dieter Meier: www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kultur/kunst/Jeder-Mensch-ist-Gott/story/11683140I'm sorry, it's totally written in German. Translating it appropriate while keeping it as close to the original text would be quite a lot of work for me, so I translate only the title for the moment: "Every human is god" It's not all about his music, but also about his other projects and I would describe the interview as philosophical. He sees himself more as an artist than only as musician. For those unable to understand the German text: Look at the pictures in the article. They show some (early) parts of Dieter Meier's work as an artist (rare pics from the 70's). Dieter Meier doesn't give a lot of interviews at all. But interviews with Boris Blank are even more rare. @iancraig10/Mike: many, many thanks for this great thread Thanks Elysion. Maybe it'll get people listening in a different way. I love their music and humour. Dieter is a bit lazy in studios. He's really a bit of a slob actually!!! He tends to flit about and doesn't like repeating stuff if it's not right. He's got so many other interests and fingers in all kinds of pies. Boris on the other hand is a manic worker. In fact, Dieter is happy to let him get on with it and just turn up to put those wonderful mono-tones onto his mixes. Pity it's all in German for us lot!! He's a character to be sure and for me a really fascinating one. His English accent when he sings sometimes makes me smile since it's quite strange at times. Ian
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 18:53:49 GMT
Ian, Can`t stop playing the 12inch version of "The Race" on FLAG. There is so much going on, that every time i play it, i pick out something else, i think its a master piece, very addictive. Will have that playing next month when i visit "The Ring"(Nordschleife) might improve my lap times a bit
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 9, 2010 20:14:12 GMT
Ian, Can`t stop playing the 12inch version of "The Race" on FLAG. There is so much going on, that every time i play it, i pick out something else, i think its a master piece, very addictive. Will have that playing next month when i visit "The Ring"(Nordschleife) might improve my lap times a bit The 12" version is very good Mick.... have a listen to La Habanera on "one second" too..... I think you'll like that
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 9:11:47 GMT
Ok Mike will give that a listen tonight. Thanks. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 15:08:23 GMT
Ian, Can`t stop playing the 12inch version of "The Race" on FLAG. There is so much going on, that every time i play it, i pick out something else, i think its a master piece, very addictive. Will have that playing next month when i visit "The Ring"(Nordschleife) might improve my lap times a bit That's the beauty of their music Mick. There's a lot more to it than you first hear and each time you go back, a new nuance or sound pops out. When you think how much time must have gone in to getting the samples recorded in as high quality as possible, composing ideas for the piece and then putting the bits into the mix etc., you realise that they really do put a lot into their music and make it sound really effortless as well. A little understanding goes a long way in the appreciation of music. ..... and then there's the actual recorded quality of the production which is absolutely superb. The Race was a 'demo' track, used everywhere for hi fi demos - like a reference track. I feel like that about Touch. It's reference quality stuff. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Ian
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 19:42:02 GMT
Ian,
I know your in the music business, have you been lucky enough to meet either or both of the Yello duo.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 20:02:26 GMT
Sh"t, thanks Mike, now i`m hooked on that too, are they real drums, must be surely, anti- Yello pills required before i become a Yello bore, as most of my friends have never heard of them, till now
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 21:38:44 GMT
" ..... and then there's the actual recorded quality of the production which is absolutely superb." ian – Just a quick aside. Why don't all bands' albums sound as well recorded as Yello, or Steely Dan, David Sylvian etc.? It's obviously technically possible, is it just a case of can't be arsed, too much work??
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 5:16:05 GMT
Ian, I know your in the music business, have you been lucky enough to meet either or both of the Yello duo. Mick. Yes, I have met them Mick!! My copy of Touch was direct because I was a bit miffed about it not being available in the UK!! ian – Just a quick aside. Why don't all bands' albums sound as well recorded as Yello, or Steely Dan, David Sylvian etc.? It's obviously technically possible, is it just a case of can't be arsed, too much work?? There are different reasons. Some studios are just not as well set up because of finance and some bands are not always signed up by companies who have the best stuff. Some studios have their own kind of signature I suppose - don't ask me what studios sound like!!! (I don't know - too many variants) Different rooms also sound different and since mics pick up sound with no 'filtering' unlike human ears, each room is very different sounding for us via a mic. (Humans tend to filter out unwanted sounds and focus on the one they're listening to so they often listen to speakers for instance, totally unaware of the fridge whining, whereas a mic would coldly pick it up and a human ear for some reason then focusses on the fridge rather than the music!!!) Direct sound from electronics should be fine, but then you can lose some of the 'humanness' although the sound is technically recorded well. We like to hear the room that the sound is in you see, so EE's try to recreate that kind of thing very often in the mix. Sound also needs to be processed in order to get it to fit on a CD without distortion. Sometimes, engineers go for a big fat sound so they use lots of compression which makes a CD seem very loud (good for radio) but you do lose the dynamic range. Too much dynamic range and you go into distortion at the peaks and not enough sound in the quiet bits. Then the average volume can seem too low so you would become more aware of noisy electronics in your hi fi and you would need a more powerful amplifier to get that range reproduced well. It goes on and on. Each engineer seems to have their own ideas and someof them are buggers for insisting that they always know best when it's not always the case. Many 80's CD's sound disgusting. (And that wasn't the musicians!!) Like hi fi - not all hi fi sounds the same even with the same recording. Also, a lot depends on recording techniques. Some recording engineers are genius guys who get the best out of the gear whereas others can make a dog's ear out of it. It helps if the engineers and musicians get their heads together so that they can decide details once the recording is 'captured' but if the original 'capture' isn't good, there's not a great deal you can do with it other than go with it or record it again which is expensive. In the UK, the emphasis is 'speed recording'.' USA studios are more relaxed and spend more time rehearsing/setting up. (generally) Sometimes, stuff is just recorded and then the players are asked to listen in the monitoring room to discuss or tweak around but basically, if the source isn't recorded well in the first place, the end result doesn't come out well. It can also depend on how dense the mix is. (How many players) Then it's a question of trying to capture a very 'heavy' sound perhaps. All kinds of variations. It's a bit like taking a photograph. I try to listen to the end result on a cheap set up, a middling set up and a top notch set up so that a general average sound can be reached that all kinds of listeners may be happy with. That's why I'm very aware of hi fi I suppose. ie a top notch hi fi listener would tend to appreciate less compression because they would be able to hear it. (Ask Alex - he adores compression!!!!) A low fi person would appreciate compression because it makes their hi fi loud and the signal to noise ration is better as a result on their gear. Also, top notch hi fi is able to reproduce dynamics without distortion more easily. So many variables. One thing that I would have loved to have seen (especially with the Ipod generation) is two versions of the same recording. One for speakers and one for headphone listeners. (Binaural sound) Anyone who thinks that headphones can't produce a 3d image then would totally change their mind. For me, the imaging in headphones is crap in comparison to speakers, but I find it superior with binaural recordings. We are all listening to speaker music on headphones which is a little twisted I suppose!! I would pay more for a stereo and binaural version on the same CD. Once you've heard it, stereo sounds flat on headphones and the most important thing for me then becomes the tone rather than the imaging. However, with speakers, it's a different story - imaging is superb. It would be nice to have a version of an album for speakers on one side and a version for headphones on the other. Imagine Yello in 3d and all the imaging that could be possible from their albums. Ian
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Post by elysion on May 11, 2010 17:03:40 GMT
Great post, Ian. Thanks. Maybe the Jecklin Disk is a good approach for binaural recordings. I have no experience with it, but I have read some information in the internet about it. wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Joerg_JecklinIf you want to compare headphone and speaker optimized variants of the same recording, you should have a look at this DVD: "blue::elements / forsenses / a fascinating journey into nature & sound" It's a has 5.1 Dolby Digital EX, 6.1 DTS-ES and "headphone surround 3D" optimized audio tracks on it. They claim some of the mixes are up to 12.1 (?). This music-demo DVD was produced by Sony Music and is available as DVD-Video and Blueray-Disc. To my ears the quality of the tracks is quite amazing, but I have to admit that I'm almost only listening to the headphone optimized tracks.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 17:35:37 GMT
Thanks Christian. I'll have a look into it.
The thing is, the tv is going daft about 3D in the UK and enhancing our viewing experience along with all the accompanying speakers in the living room.
Just imagine, two available versions of each album, where the imaging on headphones is absolutely top notch.
Combine the amazing imaging with the amzing tone that you can get from headphones and it could be a killer system to monitor with.
I hate the way that companies (and individuals) produce little demos of these recordings, when we could be listening properly to real music in virtual 3d on headphones.
The thought of 'Touch' in 3D? or the 'Race'. It would be mind numbing.
Ian
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Post by elysion on Jul 13, 2010 1:07:13 GMT
All you Yello lovers out there:
Have you ever noticed that a couple of remastered old Yello albums are sold in the iTunes store?
I've bought a few tracks for testing and the sound quality is just amazing. Very good recordings and IMO a lot better than ripped old CDs.
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Post by toad on Nov 8, 2010 16:38:22 GMT
I'm just listening to One Second on my Aune/Skytronics rig at work and it just amazes me how many textures and layers the music has. I must admit I'd had a hiatus from Yello for a month or two but blimey when you come back to them they still do the business. I'm only listening to 320 Kbps MP3 rips of my remastered CDs but even so there's plenty to get you teeth into. A lot better than old itunes rips IMO hehe. Love it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 18:50:47 GMT
Ian, I regularly go through them. Reference stuff in the electronic music field.
Put it through the Panda and you will be able to hear absolutely every thread running through the seams of the music.
The clarity from the K701 plus the added weight is really superb.
The DT770 rattles your jawline. It's an enormous sound.
The K701 is a real beauty on it. I think that the synergy is absolutely superb. In fact, just in case I think I'm missing anything in the bass, I go to the HD600 and instantly want to go back to the K701. The Senns sound like someone has drawn a curtain in comparison.
I've grown to really like the K701. I would like it to be a little easier to drive though. I have noticed (now) that it really needs a lot of welly to kick it into life, so I can really understand why people don't take to them.
I think a lot is to do with the wallop behind them. Class A amps seem to work well with them. I even have a portable/home hybrid type amp. (ie it can't decide whether it's a portable or home amp cos it's dinky) It drives the K701 really well. Not as much depth as the Panda, but it's a good sound and that's a class A as well.
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Post by toad on Nov 9, 2010 10:20:40 GMT
You'll have to stop this K701 and Panda chat Ian, it's putting me off my work Seriously though, I can't wait to hear the 701/Panda combo. I think I'll make Touch my first listen when I get the Panda. I really like that album, although Flag is a very close second. Heck I have several and they're all good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 13:06:09 GMT
Ian, you be going right back through the lot just for the fun of picking out the layers!! Not long now.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 9, 2010 13:33:42 GMT
Touch Yello through Panda and HD250 is truly eargasmic ! Gruntloads of energy, truly stygian, subterranean bass that will make your nuts rattle! Bassalicious, macho, turbotastic, pratoriffic, "fat" and pant creaming White knuckle ride with a julienne of sparks and fireworks ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 14:02:09 GMT
Touch Yello through Panda and HD250 is truly eargasmic ! Gruntloads of energy, truly stygian, subterranean bass that will make your nuts rattle! Bassalicious, macho, turbotastic, pratoriffic, "fat" and pant creaming White knuckle ride with a julienne of sparks and fireworks ;-) x10 Mick.
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Post by Spirit on Nov 9, 2010 14:03:55 GMT
Touch Yello through Panda and HD250 is truly eargasmic ! Gruntloads of energy, truly stygian, subterranean bass that will make your nuts rattle! Bassalicious, macho, turbotastic, pratoriffic, "fat" and pant creaming White knuckle ride with a julienne of sparks and fireworks ;-) Colin has sorted the bass (and tamed the excess treble) on my 250s (I left them with him when I went to England), and they're enroute back to me.... I CAN'T WAIT!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 14:17:00 GMT
You'll have to stop this K701 and Panda chat Ian, it's putting me off my work Seriously though, I can't wait to hear the 701/Panda combo. I think I'll make Touch my first listen when I get the Panda. I really like that album, although Flag is a very close second. Heck I have several and they're all good. Ian, I am listening to Touch Yellow now through your Amp+701`s, this is going to blow you away. I don`t usually get too excited about much these days, but this really is a good combination to my ears, the detail and tonal balance is quiet brilliant. If only all recordings were like this!!. Mick.
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