Education Required Please.

[Deleted]

I have a Techie SL1200 that I'm very happy with. I play LPs on it with the slider on the right in the mid position and the green light lit. In that position the strobe dots on the rim of the platter are ALWAYS as steady as a rock - I have genuinely never seen or heard anything less than totally constant platter speed.
That being the case what, if anything, would I gain by fitting an upgraded PSU? (Paul Hynes or Timestep for instance).
I can see where taking the transformer out from under the cartridge might possibly reduce RFI type pollution and mechanical vibration but what does the little PCB with it's various bits and pieces bring to the party?
This is a serious question as I have bought a Paul Hynes PR3 with Transformer as a bit of an act of faith because an upgraded PSU is widely touted around vinyl areas of other fora as one of the first and best upgrades that should be carried out.
If anyone cares to try to explain how the improvement comes about can they couch it in simple layman's terms as my knowledge of electronics is virtually limited to wiring a plug and changing a fuse.
Thanks in anticipation of anyone attempting to educate an old know nowt newbie .
Dave.

[Nigel]

I see there is a Timestep 2 due for imminent release.

I can't answer your question directly, bring on the electronics experts, however, one point that might interest you, the guy who I bought my Timestep PSU off had just upgraded to a Paul Hynes unit & noticeably preferred the Hynes in his set-up.

[Nigel]

I see Paul Hynes has moved location, last I heard he was in the Lake District, looks like he now lives in a more remote place than even, Mike!

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2010 9:15:12 GMT Nigel said:

I see there is a Timestep 2 due for imminent release.

I can't answer your question directly, bring on the electronics experts, however, one point that might interest you, the guy who I bought my Timestep PSU off had just upgraded to a Paul Hynes unit & noticeably preferred the Hynes in his set-up.

Nigel
I found an explanation from Paul Hynes himself in another forum.
A lot of it has to do with the relatively poor performance of LM317 etc. adjustable voltage regulators. He says they were designed for industrial use, not audio.
Alex

[Nigel]

Cheers Alex.

There you go then Dave. You've probably read the Timestep info as well, Dave.

<<The internal regulator is way short of gain, so in fact it doesn't really regulate much at all. The motor often demands more current and the existing regulator responds by dropping the voltage. So we completely bypass that regulator, in fact we physically cut it out! Other lower cost power supplies leave in this poor regulator, why you might ask?

Let us spell it out, the SL-1200/1210 internal regulator is one big problem, leave it in and simply put on an external power supply; and you only fix half the problem. Cut it out, and use our power supply and everything works properly, look at the scope traces to see. >>

[PinkFloyd]

Paul lives on South Uist... a lovely island

www.scotland-info.co.uk/south-uist.htm

[Deleted]

Thanks Nigel and Alex (and Mike so's he doesn't feel neglected 'cos I know what a sensitive soul he is ). I am now a bit wiser. All I need now is some idiot proof instructions as to how to go about installing the bits and pieces. I've e-mailed Paul and he is expecting one of his customers to send him some pics of his own installation which Paul ha offered to pass on. If anyone else can contribute I would be grateful.
Nigel, I find it interesting that your contact found the Paul Hynes mod to be better than the Timestep - I'm a refugee from another place where the Timestep is held to be la creme de la creme of such things.
Thanks again all,
Dave.

[Nigel]

If you end up stuck, contact a guy called Shuggie from the other place you refer to Dave.

[leo]

Spec wise the PR3 is way infront of any LM317 based regulation, how much this really matters with something like a TT supply I can't say just yet, I'm hoping I'll find out soon

I hope the Timestep was had for a good price Nigel, It does look a smart little thing, I 'm not going to comment too much on it though

[leo]

What you struggling with Dave? The hardest bit will be the metal work, is the PR3 output already set or does it contain a trimmer ?

BTW very nice buy you have, you'll be struggling to find a regulated psu to better it, a LM317 based supply is very easy for the diyer to build where as I know for sure I personally could not build anything to better a PR3, seriously they are bloomin' good!

BTW, heres a PR3 I knocked up for a Duet psu, I used one of those Hammond cases from Maplin, the transformer is what I had knocking about.
I'd offer to build yours up but a little busy with work at the mo, also the main thing is with it being mains I don't know where I stand regarding rules and regulations

[Deleted]

Spec wise the PR3 is way infront of any LM317 based regulation, how much this really matters with something like a TT supply I can't say just yet

Leo
I would say that it does matter with a TT supply, because the voltage needs to be kept constant under all load conditions. The 317 is far from perfect as far as response to sudden load variations.

24V regulated at what current ?

Alex

[leo]

Mar 29, 2010 0:29:22 GMT @sandyk said:

Spec wise the PR3 is way infront of any LM317 based regulation, how much this really matters with something like a TT supply I can't say just yet

Leo
I would say that it does matter with a TT supply, because the voltage needs to be kept constant under all load conditions. The 317 is far from perfect as far as response to sudden load variations.

24V regulated at what current ?

Alex

The Technics are 21v (looking at the service manual) I'm not sure of the current yet , I'll be digging into that later , its supposed to jump up a fair bit during first start up of the platter (no higher than 800mA)

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2010 0:50:32 GMT leo said:

Mar 29, 2010 0:29:22 GMT @sandyk said:

Leo
I would say that it does matter with a TT supply, because the voltage needs to be kept constant under all load conditions. The 317 is far from perfect as far as response to sudden load variations.

24V regulated at what current ?

Alex

The Technics are 21v (looking at the service manual) I'm not sure of the current yet , I'll be digging into that later , its supposed to jump up a fair bit during first start up of the platter (no higher than 800mA)

Leo
Perhaps a LM317 based supply followed by a non CL JLH would work well ?
Alex

[leo]

Mar 29, 2010 1:03:20 GMT @sandyk said:

Mar 29, 2010 0:50:32 GMT leo said:

The Technics are 21v (looking at the service manual) I'm not sure of the current yet , I'll be digging into that later , its supposed to jump up a fair bit during first start up of the platter (no higher than 800mA)

Leo
Perhaps a LM317 based supply followed by a non CL JLH would work well ?
Alex

Certainly worth a try, I'll be interested to see how the cheapest diy alternatives would compare

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2010 1:17:18 GMT leo said:

Mar 29, 2010 1:03:20 GMT @sandyk said:

Leo
Perhaps a LM317 based supply followed by a non CL JLH would work well ?
Alex

Certainly worth a try, I'll be interested to see how the cheapest diy alternatives would compare

Leo
Youy would need the 2 x 4,700uF version.
Alex

[XTRProf]

I'm not sure what the PR3 and Timestep 2 are all about but the TT PSU is one of them that makes the most difference. I would put it down as in terms of soundstage creation as the music stability makes imaging sharper, with more depth and results in also more PRAT and attack. In other words, a more believable reproduction of the music volume and space. To get a taste of what I mean, just change a "looser" belt (not a already falling out one) to a new tight one for a belt driven TT. The same effect entails.

In terms of which drive and PSU, both DC and AC motors have their merits. But so far the AC motor and the corresponding AC regenerator impressed me the most as they have more torque and will not stop even when you put your fingers on the pulley to stop it. I had a chance to try to stop and reduce the speed of a Walker TT AC motor pulley without much success when the challenge was thrown to me by the Walker guy some years back. Btw, the Walker TT uses a hefty industrial precision AC motor. Any other lesser AC motors might stop.

Also, the AC motor don't depend on the hunting technique of the DC servo. It just locked in at the correct frequency and run at the correct speed without servo hunt or errors.

[leo]

Have you fitted that psu yet Dave? I just knocked another psu up using a Techie PR3 .
Fitting it to the Technics is a piece of cake, I did it so it allows pretty quick comparing against the stock fitted psu.

It proved quite an ear opener for me in all honesty
I'll post some pics soon

[leo]

I posted this on another forum but added it over here too mainly to help Dave out.

Some of the used parts, I also tried to get prices etc

Hammond aluminum enclosure Maplin N85AL £10:79 www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=33690

DC socket , Bits of cable, heatshrink IEC socket etc can all be had from Maplin www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1503

Paul Hynes PR3G3HD-21 module £120 www.paulhynesdesign.com/ For those that can't or don't want to diy , Paul can supply a stand alone psu called SR3-21 for £270 and DC3C high performance DC lead for £35

I already had the 2 x 18v 80vA transformer as a spare www.farnell.com/datasheets/74766.pdf suitable types can be had from Farnell , RS , ebay etc, required secondary voltage is 18v, 2 x 80vA is probably overkill





Paul Hynes PR3 set for the Techie, I edited the pic and added a few details



Inside after the build, theres the option to add a power on led to the PR3 module, I may add one on later



Added a few details



Finished!

[Nigel]

Looking good & I bet it sounds damn good as well. See in the other thread elsewhere, Mr Cawley mentioned his new supply, an instantaneous 60A peak current delivery with absolutely no negative feedback at all.

Is more amps necessarily better in this case? I can't see why the turntable would ever need 60A delivered to it.

[leo]

Hi Nigel,

Its boosted the performance quite nicely imho, bass is tighter and high's less sibilant , music just has better flow

The psu drives the technics start up and drive with ease , the copper block doesn't even run warm, its got bags of current delivery on tap incase its needed, the thing is way over spec but handy to be tried with other items too, infact it would easily drive most single rail amps quite easily

Cheers,
Leo

[Deleted]

I've never been able to understand why a disco jap deck is so popular?

[PinkFloyd]

Jan 1, 2015 14:12:15 GMT @b said:

I've never been able to understand why a disco jap deck is so popular?

Maybe because the sailors are allowed to dance on the deck...... it's very good for the crew's morale.