toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 22, 2010 23:35:52 GMT
Mike I'm definately not going to shout at you. The NAD is really performing now. Bass has filled out a little since yesterday but the mids and higs are really good. This thing is almost the equal of my Arcam now. I just lacks a little oomph but I still reckon it could get there.
Best £200 I've spent on audio gear for ages. It bats way above it's current price bracket now it's burned in a bit.
Ian
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 23:55:16 GMT
It would be interesting to try one of those in to a very good DAC via SPDIF,(obviously not SACD) as very few people can take advantage of the sound quality available from HDMI due to equipment limitations at the other end of the HDMI cable. I'm new to this game but keen to learn so forgive a basic newbie question but why "obviously not SACD"? I have 1 SACD disc and a Wolfson'd Beresford 7520 DAC (has SPDIF). Be gentle , Dave.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:13:47 GMT
It would be interesting to try one of those in to a very good DAC via SPDIF,(obviously not SACD) as very few people can take advantage of the sound quality available from HDMI due to equipment limitations at the other end of the HDMI cable. I'm new to this game but keen to learn so forgive a basic newbie question but why "obviously not SACD"? I have 1 SACD disc and a Wolfson'd Beresford 7520 DAC (has SPDIF). Be gentle , Dave. Hi Dave Unfortunately, the record companies are so paranoid about copying, that they will not permit SACD to output via SPDIF. You can with DVD-A, but usually at a lower resolution.THere should be no restriction as to the quality via HDMI which is supposedly copy protected. Alex
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 23, 2010 0:18:50 GMT
SACD still hasn't impressed me on the NAD yet. My Arcam is in a different league (so far) for SACD but the NADs CD playback is well beyond passable now
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 4:31:12 GMT
Ian Of course they can say that, as any well made HDMI cable should work just as well as the expensive types at distances up to 1.5Metres or thereabouts.The gap widens with longer cables. Alex
|
|
Spirit
Been here a while!
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
Posts: 1,107
|
Post by Spirit on Feb 23, 2010 6:17:39 GMT
The gap widens with longer cables. Often, yes ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 9:51:06 GMT
I'm new to this game but keen to learn so forgive a basic newbie question but why "obviously not SACD"? I have 1 SACD disc and a Wolfson'd Beresford 7520 DAC (has SPDIF). Be gentle , Dave. Hi Dave Unfortunately, the record companies are so paranoid about copying, that they will not permit SACD to output via SPDIF. You can with DVD-A, but usually at a lower resolution.THere should be no restriction as to the quality via HDMI which is supposedly copy protected. Alex Thanks Alex - much wiser now - much appreciated. This being the case, is it possible to go from HDMI to SPDIF by adaptors, converters, other hardware or even software? It seems a shame to me that the best SQ signal is provided but not really able to be taken advantage of except in certain tightly controlled (commercial ?) circumstances. Dave.
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 23, 2010 11:05:53 GMT
They have the same money back if not satisfied blurb on their 5M £5.99 cables too Alex. ;D TBh I'm not suggesting this is a world class cable but it'll get the job done on a budget and if you're not going to bother with an expensive one you might as well save extra cash
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 11:16:08 GMT
Hi Dave Unfortunately, the record companies are so paranoid about copying, that they will not permit SACD to output via SPDIF. You can with DVD-A, but usually at a lower resolution.THere should be no restriction as to the quality via HDMI which is supposedly copy protected. Alex Thanks Alex - much wiser now - much appreciated. This being the case, is it possible to go from HDMI to SPDIF by adaptors, converters, other hardware or even software? It seems a shame to me that the best SQ signal is provided but not really able to be taken advantage of except in certain tightly controlled (commercial ?) circumstances. Dave. Dave There are now some commercial converters available that can be placed in line to do that, but I think some are restricted in the bandwidth of the Optical OUT usually employed, although Toslink can now have wider bandwidth than previously. Alex www.converters.tv/products/digital_video_system_converters_431.html
|
|
robertkd
Been here a while!
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
Posts: 111
|
Post by robertkd on Feb 23, 2010 11:23:56 GMT
They have the same money back if not satisfied blurb on their 5M £5.99 cables too Alex. ;D TBh I'm not suggesting this is a world class cable but it'll get the job done on a budget and if you're not going to bother with an expensive one you might as well save extra cash The good thing about digital is it either works or it don't with a fine line between the two states. For me for digital interconnects there are krap quality then cables that preform and then there are stupidly expensive cables.
|
|
robertkd
Been here a while!
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
Posts: 111
|
Post by robertkd on Feb 23, 2010 11:29:57 GMT
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 23, 2010 18:24:48 GMT
Bloody hell this thing is starting to sound good now. If it improves much further it's going to become my main CDP and knock my Arcam of it's pedestal. Highs are really nice now. Cymbals sound like cymbals! Detail is excellent. Mids are still a little recessed but not enough to be a problem. It's still a little bass shy and lacking in impact but it's still improving. Presence has improved no end. The soundstage (yes soundstage, not headstage!) is very impressive. the NAD is starting to throw sounds out of my head with well recorded material. The placing of instruments is precise and each instrument is in it's own space. I bet this thing could really embarass some CDPs costing several hundred quid! Right I'm off to listen to some more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 21:36:03 GMT
Hi again Alex, Further thoughts on SACD HDMI output into DAC: I have a AV amp which has HDMI inputs and coax and optical output. Could I route the SACD audio signal from the T585 via HDMI to the AV amp and from there via co-ax or optical to my DAC and get full advantage of the superior SQ that SACD offers or would the extra stage in the signal path offset any possible advantages? Or am I talking through my arse because of my naivete, not for the first time Thanks for your help, Dave. Thanks Alex - much wiser now - much appreciated. This being the case, is it possible to go from HDMI to SPDIF by adaptors, converters, other hardware or even software? It seems a shame to me that the best SQ signal is provided but not really able to be taken advantage of except in certain tightly controlled (commercial ?) circumstances. Dave. Dave There are now some commercial converters available that can be placed in line to do that, but I think some are restricted in the bandwidth of the Optical OUT usually employed, although Toslink can now have wider bandwidth than previously. Alex www.converters.tv/products/digital_video_system_converters_431.html
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 23, 2010 21:37:15 GMT
The "Brooklyns" HDMI cable arrived and, man, it's very well put together stuff Connected it up to the T585 / TV and watching Santana's "Supernatural Live" DVD (an evening with Carlos Santana)..... colours are vibrant, everything looks nice and crystal clear..... very happy with the DVD section of this player Toad, I agree, the CD section just keeps getting better and better and I'm actually getting used to the slightly light bass.... it's more of a rogers LS3/5A type listen than a Cerwin Vega with REL sub type listen...... very acceptable..... I've ordered and isolation platform for it ( one of these ) and will see if that tightens things up a bit. Overall, a few days into the T585 experience, I am extremely pleased with the purchase and already regard it as and indispensable piece of gear.... I always thought there was no such thing as a "jack of all trades" but this box of tricks is proving me wrong. Best £200 I've spent in many a year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 21:54:07 GMT
Hi Dave I would expect that the HDMI protocol will prevent full resolution audio from being output at the receiver's digital outputs. I don't know for sure, but would expect this to be the case.You can be pretty sure that the Record Companies would have already thought about that simple scenario.HDMI converters were specifically designed to circumvent these draconian measures. Alex
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 23, 2010 22:15:40 GMT
BTW...... the Santana concert is SUPERB!
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 24, 2010 18:07:00 GMT
I've stopped running the NAD 24/7. It's good enough to listen to and enjoy now. One advantage the T585 has over my Arcam is it doesn't take an hour to warm up from standby. It's more or less at full potential from standby. That alone may be enough to swing it as my main CDP if it just goes that little bit farther on SQ. I'm going to use it as my main CDP for a couple of weeks then do a lot of A-B vs my Arcam. It's going to be close EDIT: Anyone that says AKG K701s can't do rock would do well to listen to them on this NAD. I am listening to Muse Absolution and it's fecking amazing! It has never sounded better. The NAD is now doing Bass with impact and weight... I really am starting to think this may be better than my Arcam
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2010 22:45:32 GMT
I've stopped running the NAD 24/7. Thank god for that You don't want to wear the laser out Ian or it'll sound crap (ie: it won't play!) I've had a bit of a revelation with mine.... I swapped out the WAD HD83 for the Mr. Doudou Singer and the synergy is a LOT better.... a much nicer balance of sound and, surprise surprise, copious amounts of deep bass..... funny how a simple thing like a change of amp can change the whole makeup.... I know I "kind of" intimated that most amps sound the same but the DouDou just gives the NAD the "clearance" it needs to really come on song...... It was good with X-Can V2 / V3, Novo, WAD and Pro-Ject headbox but the Doudou seems to mate perfectly with it. I'll be totally honest, I enjoy it more than my CD17 and my two CD-52 MKll SE's.... the SQ is just so musical and involving Mick must have onehelluva CD player if he thinks the NAD sounds pretty mediocre.... I'm more than happy with the SQ
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 25, 2010 10:03:23 GMT
It is rather good isn't it TBH At first I doubted it's chance to catch up with my DV135 but it's very close to the Arcam now. I really think it's going to better it. The thing is, it sounds so good straight out of standby and 10 minutes in is singing it's heart out but my Arcam takes 20mins to start delivering and close to a full hour to really come on song. I do know Mick has a rather nice CDP but his comments were made when the NAD was a long way from what it's delivering now. I think his view will change once his has cooked a little more. PS Mine wasn't on 24/7 since it arrived only for a couple of days to speed the process up. I can usually cope with uncooked gear but the NAD was too bland to be enjoyable so I got bored of waiting
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 10:39:59 GMT
Hi Dave I would expect that the HDMI protocol will prevent full resolution audio from being output at the receiver's digital outputs. I don't know for sure, but would expect this to be the case.You can be pretty sure that the Record Companies would have already thought about that simple scenario.HDMI converters were specifically designed to circumvent these draconian measures. Alex Hi Alex, I tried to follow up on the concept of getting 'full strength' HDMI sound stream into a DAC and contacted Converters.TV by e-mail giving them brief details of what I was trying to do and what my set up was. I got the following response this morning: - "Dear Dave,
Thank you for your reply and explanation of your set-up.
I have posted three links below for products that may be of interest to you:
ID#645: www.converters.tv/products/digital_and_analog_audio_products_645.html
ID#670: www.converters.tv/products/hdmi_converters_670.html This product should be able to be used with a DVI/HDMI adaptor cable.
ID#698: www.converters.tv/products/hdtv_to_hdtv/698.html
The audio ratings for most of our Audio products are for working with uncompressed LPCM 2 channel audio stream. The ID#645 has a rating to 5.1 Surround in TOSlink format. The ID#698 has 5.1 / 7.1 / Dolby TrueHD / Dolby Digital Plus / DTS-HD Master Audio.
Please review and if you have any questions, please ask.
Best Regards, Chris Bailey. Manager sales@converters.tv
**************************************************************** CONVERTERS.TV 44-48 Maitland Road, Mayfield East 2304, NSW, Australia Tel: +612 4968 9313 Fax: +612 4968 9314 Date: 25th February,2010 ***************************************************************" My impression is that the first two products linked to do not seem to address my specific requirement but the third product may - what is your impression? Cheers, Dave.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 10:52:54 GMT
Dave Until recently,most Toslink Outputs have been limited to 24/48. There is no specification given here. You would need to specifically ask them if it is able to output 24/96 via Toslink. Alex P.S. Ask them questions about their HDMI to DVI Converter with Digital Audio ID# 431 It has SPDIF (coax) Out. I saved the specs on that one some time back.
* Digital video output: DVI-I connector (RGB or YpbPr pass through) * Digital audio output: Coaxial (S/PDIF) * HDMI input is Compliant with HDMI 1.1 * Operation frequency: Up to 165 MHz * Input/Output resolutions: PC: VGA@60/72/75/85Hz, SVGA@60/72/75/85Hz, XGA@60/70/75/85/87Hz, SXGA@60/75/85Hz, UXGA@60Hz, 1152@70/75/85Hz HDTV: 480p@60Hz, 576@50Hz, 720p@50/60Hz, 1080i@50/60Hz 1080p@24/25/30/50/60Hz * Dimensions: 105(W) x 76(D) x 30(H)mm * Power: 5V 2A center-positive
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 27, 2010 21:53:41 GMT
The Isokinetik support arrived today. A very solid item, beautifully made in Germany with top quality sorbothane feet (you position them yourself and they just peel off should you wish to reposition them)...... Well, I had good results with isolation platforms back in the day when I owned a turntable and have always wondered if they would make any improvement to CD players. I positioned the NAD on it, fired up one of my well known reference CD's and was pretty gobsmacked to be honest All of a sudden, the bass that I felt was lacking had appeared in spadeloads (and tight, tuneful bass too!)..... the midrange detail has improved no end and the overall "picture" of the sound has come well and truly into focus Absolutely amazing how a simple sheet of acrylic with sorbothane feet can do this, especially with it being a headphone based setup, with no "apparent" external vibrations to speak of. I know the earth vibrates, to a certain extent, but it's not usually noticeable (unless there's a mini earthquake or something) you would assume, under normal (headphone listening) circumstances, that CD players wouldn't benefit from isolation platforms...... WRONG! This £34.99 slab of German made acrylic / sorbothane feet has totally transformed the SQ of the NAD for the better.... it's not "subtle" either, it's a very noticeable improvement and worth £34.99 of anyone's money. If one Isokinetik platform can bring about such a vast improvement I wonder what two, or even three "stacked" could do? I am very tempted to order another one to try it..... I will also try a smaller version under my amps..... I'm extremely impressed with this product, it really does work wonders...... I am now totally satisfied with the SQ of the NAD and will stop comparing it to my CD17, the SQ is now on a par with the Marantz (I don't find it lacking)..... of course, when I fit a Isokinetik under the CD17 it may be a different story I cannot recommend this more highly, for what it does it is stupendous VFM @ £34.99! Way more "performance" than wasting money on silly "boutique" interconnects and an extremely noticeable improvement too..... you don't have to "concentrate" to hear what this platform does, it smacks you in the face.... Awesome
|
|
toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by toad on Feb 27, 2010 21:57:12 GMT
OMG that's more cash I need to spend then LOL... Edit: Make that spent
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 27, 2010 22:27:51 GMT
OMG that's more cash I need to spend then LOL... I shit you not Ian.... you will be amazed with the improvement the platform brings about..... I have to consider my "reputation" every single time I make a recommendation and, as such, I will only recommend products that "do the business"..... the Isokinetik / T585 is a match made in heaven IMO. Mike.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2010 22:31:20 GMT
OMG that's more cash I need to spend then LOL... I shit you not Ian.... you will be amazed with the improvement the platform brings about..... I have to consider my "reputation" every single time I make a recommendation and, as such, I will only recommend products that "do the business"..... the Isokinetik / T585 is a match made in heaven IMO. Mike. The cheapskates should be able to obtaihn a small improvement by sitting it on a piece of sound absorbing material such as used in automotive audio upgrades. e.g. www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AX3688p
|
|