High quality phono stages

[Nigel]

Hi,

Anyone have any experience with high quality phono stages? For instance where does the law of diminishing returns really kick in hard.

I'm using a Cambridge 640p, which I prefer to the phono section in my integrated amp, offering a less grey more vibrant sound. I can't help wondering how the high quality, presumably very expensive, phono stages sound though.

[pjc68]

Nigel
The graham slee gram amp 2 se, seems to get a good reveiw,
when funds allow this is the one im,e getting .
At the moment i am using a mf xlps phono stage that i have bought
new about 7 or 8 yrs ago.

[colinh]

Hi Nigel, using a Pure Sound P10 here and very happy with the sound. I have tried the Cambridge 640p but after hearing the p10 decided to get one . I think its a case of getting the sound your after and then sticking with it. If you try and hear to many you lose track of what you have heard, in addition the cart is also a factor in getting the sound you want trouble is finding the right one !.

[XTRProf]

Jan 29, 2010 14:01:59 GMT pjc68 said:

At the moment i am using a mf xlps phono stage that i have bought new about 7 or 8 yrs ago.

Unfortunatrly the MF phono stage doesn't have any impedance or capacitance adjustments which may curtail the best from your cartridge. MC, though, is less affected by capacitance. When you are using a MM, both are important parameters. Fyi.

[XTRProf]

Jan 29, 2010 9:48:35 GMT Nigel said:

Hi,

I'm using a Cambridge 640p, which I prefer to the phono section in my integrated amp, offering a less grey more vibrant sound. I can't help wondering how the high quality, presumably very expensive, phono stages sound though.

That's a wonderful phono stage! I may get one to compliment those phono stages I have.

I have an AR SP11 internal phono stage, a Naim 32.5 internal phono stage (highly modded), Bellari VP129 tube buffered phono stage and a wonderful diy mc prepre headamp which I had highlighted many stars back here.

In general, the hybrid tube phono stages are better liked. So I like the SP11 hyrbid as well as the Bellari with diy hybrid. I have not tried a full tube phono yet as they tend to be quite noisy. I may latter.

In terms of price where diminishising return will surface, that is a question only each individual can answer as well as how high end and high resolution is your system. The higher the resolution, the more we can hear improvements as we go up the ladder in price. But in general, I will not look at things way pass 1.5k pounds as system matching and sound just change comes more into play then actual improvements.

[Nigel]

Hi Colin,

I've heard the Pure Sound P10 is very good indeed.

[freddypipsqueek]

I use a standard Graham Slee GramAmp One (Bridge). It is probably better than the MM input on my Cyrus One but I felt it changed the sound as opposed to improved it. I bought it as I have a Cyrus 6vs2 with no phono input which I will need to use as the Cyrus One is showing signs of "wearing out". I would suggest that the phono stage is both important (as it is the earliest amplification stage) and also the thing to get right (for the same reason). i.e garbage in garbage out.

[colinh]

Cheers Nigel ,the P10 was bought after a bake off of about 4 Phono amps. The Cambridge 640 that we still have and of course the p10. In addition there was an Aquavox that was superb and one of the guys had a home brew that he'd put together. The Aquavox won the day but at the time cost nearly double the price of the P10. Still no regrets.

[videoguy]

Hi Nigel: My recommendation is 1. If you are using a moving magnet cartridge, replace it with a moving coil cartridge. For approx. $288- usd you can get a Denon D103R. This cartridge is as good as many more expensive MC's. 2. get a good quality step up transformer box as the 103R's output is only 0.4 mv & output impedance is 40 ohms. 3. Try this combo into the cambridge & see how it sounds to you; if it is still lacking then look at some other preamps.

Regards: Bill Wilson

[Nigel]

Hi Bill,

I've heard great things about the Denon D103 series but I've heard some bad things as well. End of side distortion for one. Obviously I shouldn't comment without hearing one but I'm also led to believe it's less than an ideal match for a RB300 tonearm, effective mass of tonearm, weight of cartridge.

See there's a guy on youtube that removes the Denon cartridge body & replaces it with a wooden one!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ENq8PoXhaU

[Deleted]

Snap on those reports Nigel. Plus I've never heard one in anger.

That wooden body mod looks brutal! Reminds of the more civilised denuding of a Lyra Lydian, I also used to transfer the "Stilton" body off an old ATF5 to a new one. (Did Mick say he made those bodies?)

Which deck are we talking about Nigel, Linn or Technics?

[Nigel]

Well I'm currently using the Technics for the moment.

[videoguy]

I am aware of the replacement wooden body. I am convinced that it is one of those tweaks that may give the last 3-5% improvement. The question is how far are you willing to go & how much are you willing to invest to get there.

Neve had the opportunity to hear one with the wood body so I cannot make a dogmatic statement on the subject.

It is a matter of separating the snake oil from the real. Example: oxygen free wire; Rupert Neve designer of the Neve mixing desks for recording studios & owner of Focusrite analog recording accessories calls it snake oil, I am in complete agreement.

We just have to determine how far we are willing to go & what we are willing to be satisfied with. I will stick with the 103R with my own transformer step up box, it sounds great.

[blackglass]

The Hart Audio Chiara headphone amp has had rave reviews elsewhere on this site and I highly recommend the company's phono stage with matching power supply. I have had a number of quality phono stages and this blows them all away as far as I am concerned. I read a review of it that said Hart seemed to sell their products based on part count without any margin for design etc. I would be interested to see if Mike could make the same level of improvements to the phono stage as he managed with the Chiara.

[Deleted]

blackglass
Do you have a schematic of the Power Supply especially, as well as the
phono preamp itself?
Even high quality internal photos may also be of assistance.
Even to Mike ! ;D

SandyK

[mrarroyo]

How much are you willing to spend? Besides GSP I have read good reviews on ...

www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/f-117

www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=220&rn=428&action=show_detail

www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=220&rn=429&action=show_detail

www.decware.com/newsite/ZP3.htm

[Deleted]

During a similar search I found these guys. I have no more information than this site as I never went ahead with the idea.

[pjc68]

I might have a chance to buy a secondhand trichord dino or gs gram
amp 2se phono stage.
The gs one has no adjustment capabilities and is basically plug and play were as the dino has cartridge loading and gain dip switch
settings underneath.
I have a sumiko bluepoint no2 mc cart, a rega rb250 arm on a rega
p2 TT going through a mf xlps phono stage, but i feel the xlps is holding the sumiko back.
If i end up with one of them i will test and report back.
paddy

[XTRProf]

Dec 28, 2010 1:35:35 GMT pjc68 said:

I might have a chance to buy a secondhand trichord dino or gs gram
amp 2se phono stage.
The gs one has no adjustment capabilities and is basically plug and play were as the dino has cartridge loading and gain dip switch
settings underneath.
I have a sumiko bluepoint no2 mc cart, a rega rb250 arm on a rega
p2 TT going through a mf xlps phono stage, but i feel the xlps is holding the sumiko back.
If i end up with one of them i will test and report back.
paddy

Hi Paddy,

I suggest that you get something that has adjustment as no cartridge will work its best without some form of adjustment.

[Deleted]

I've never heard the Dino or the particular model of GSA you mention.
However, the GSA I have heard was crap. No other way of putting it.

I would be more inclined to try a mod kit for the XLPS, which is very respectable indeed, even in standard form.

Caps, diodes, valves and a good psu, I reckon you'll reep more benefit on this course.

The Sumiko BPII is not too fussy, sounding pretty decent in many different set ups. (I have one as back up)

[pjc68]

Chong
The tricord dino has adjustments underneath.
www.trichordresearch.com/dinospec.html
paddy

[pjc68]

Chris
I was thinking of modding the xlps but i dont know of anyone who
does the kit so i thought sod it i will buy a differnt one
paddy

[Deleted]

...I guess it must be similar to the X-Can mods?

Whip the board out and take decent piccys both sides. I'm sure Mikeypoo could advise on compatible mods and a Pinkie PSU.

If the phono stage in my amp wasn't so piggin' good, this is the way I would I go.

[stevieg330]

Hi Paddy,

For what it's worth I have a Trichord Dino and find it to be a great sounding phono amp although to be fair I haven't heard that many!

It's certainly in a completely different league to the one on my amp (Marantz PM7200ki)or any on-board phono stage I can recall although at the moment the Dino is plugged directly into my Xcan V2 via a Nordost Red Dawn interconnect.

I use it with the standard Trichord PSU but I wonder what it sounds like with the Dino+ power supply.

Hope this helps

Regards

Steve

[pjc68]

Hi stevieg330
Thanks for the info.
I have just won a mk1 dino on ebay foe £129 in mint condition with
the manual.
Cant wait for it to come, it should sound better than my xlps.
What TT and cart are you using it with.
paddy