Basic TT Stuff

[andy]

Ok i am hoping that through this therad some of you experienced turn table users can impart some wisdom to us less experienced lot!

I will start with a question:

I have a Technics SL1200 with a goldring cartridge and a silicome rubber matt with a thin foam topper (otherwise you cannot get the record off after playing).
I am playing this into the phono amp on my Analogue Audio pre amp.

Now in theory this set up should sound good, not great but good. Still i find myself playing CD's over vinyl, and when i put a record on it dosnt 'do it' for me.

Would anyone be able to give me some ideas of things i can try to improve things a bit?

Thanks

Andy

[Deleted]

with a thin foam topper

Andy, is that a proper TT topper, or a DIY job? I don't associate foam with mats It could be a problem. Poss. try a felt one (even a slip mat).

I've also never seen a Goldring used on a standard 1200, to my mind it would not be happy here. Try a AT110E or AT95E.
Most importantly, check the little sucker is accurately set up.

I think what you are getting is smooth (Goldring under performing), a bit of durge (foam topper), and smooth again into the very silky but rather fine Bellini. A little too much of the same thing IMHO.

Both the above cost peanuts so worth a go.

There are a couple of guys here who have done loads of mods to the 1200 and will know more.

Nigel?

[Nigel]

Which Goldring cartridge is it? Yes, it should sound pretty good assuming it's all set up correctly. Is the sound too bright or dull?

[Nigel]

Chris,

Your right I've spent quite a lot of cash on my Technics obtaining genuine improvements along the way. With retrospect, initially it was a bit sterile sounding but even then I considered it pretty good.

[andy]

it is a goldring 1006, set up my a propper hi-fi dealer specialising in turntables, so it should be set up correctly.

Matt is neoprene rubber on a silicone rubber onto the platter, this sounds better than the standard technics one.

[guadixman]

Hi Andy,
I got turned on to DDs with an original Technics SL120 - that is the deck did'nt come with an arm, the 1200 has fitted as standard a Technics arm.

I bought the deck so Angela could play her 45s easily. I fitted a Rega arm and could'nt believe how much better than the Rega decks it is.

As Nigel has said there are lots of mods you can do to make it into a very good deck indeed. Don't be so sure that you will always get a good job done at a shop - there are horror stories.

All the best decks in the 70s came with heavy composite mats - you can waste time and money trying other types but for me they can't be beat - that is only my opinion, others may differ.

Even the heaviest alu platters can ring and these original mats damp out any such problems.

I prefer DNM reson to Goldring - again only my opinion.

[videoguy]

Hi Andy: Living in the colonies I can't comment on the Gold Ring cartridge; I can tell you that I started using Shure & A.T. magnetic pickups when stereo was introduced in the late 50's. Prior to that I had an ESL ribbon cartridge, fantastic sound from mono vinyl & a Farichild moving coil. The magnetics just can't stand up to a good moving coil cartridge.

A fantastic one is Denons D103R $274- usd on ebay. You would have to use step up transformers as the output is only .0004 vac & the impedance is 40 ohms. This cartridge is the equal of some of the very expensive moving coils & tracks @ 1 1/2 grams; easy on the vinyl.

If you do upgrade I have an extra stereo step up transformer box with high quality microphone input transformers used in many h.q. mike preamps from 50's & 60's.

[Nigel]

Andy,

You can throw a lot of money at the deck & for sure it will sound outstanding but there's no reason it shouldn't be providing major enjoyment as it is right now. The mat looks fine & (although I've never heard it) the Goldring is a well established cartridge.

I was wondering, in your collection, do you have most of your fave music on cd or vinyl?

[Deleted]

OK, I'm going to be the first to be a little heavy here...

The Goldring, DNM, Denon are all good cartridges BUT not suited to a STANDARD 1200 series deck. The tonearm was not designed for these.
IMO you will actually get a worse sound from these cartridges than from the AT s I mentioned above.

If you want to change the arm then they will all sing quite happily.

I would also recheck the set up.

Sorry to be insistant, I do mean it constructively.

[guadixman]

Andy,
Chris is right, a Shure will give better results on the Technics arm.
First get aquainted with the deck and don't go rushing anywhere with your money.

Set-up is of paramount importance with any TT.

[andy]

Nigel, I have a bit of both, though i do have some same albums on both cd and vinyl, hearing the same things from both cd and tt.

I have had a look at the setup of the cartridge and from my untrained eye everything looks good, i know that my dealer used a marked mirror guage and checked the weight etc, but coming from the digital age i must admit that i am not 100% sure how to set up a tt!!

I do have the standard arm on my technics, the only other mod that has been made is to replace the cable as the original was cut in half. I use a double screened audio cable and have used high quality plugs.

[Deleted]

Most TT`s will only give off there true potential if set up correctly, in the same light a good arm, be it a low medium or high mass,needs to be matched, with a cartridge thats best suited to a particular mass category, to give its best. I`ve heard some very modestly priced setup`s sound very nice,that had been set up properly, and some ridiculously expensive setups sound very mediocre, mainly due to poor setup.

Anybody out there got a Linn LP12, the biggest improvement i`ve ever heard!! forget power supplies, solid aluminium chassis, Carbon fibre Arm mount boards,fancy base plates. A small mod to the Main Bearing, blows the rest right out the ball park, cost!! Pennies.

[andy]

Mike, you may know my dealer, you ever come across Analogue Seductions? run by Gary in Hampton Haragte?

[Nigel]

Jan 29, 2010 20:57:39 GMT @heliharris said:

Anybody out there got a Linn LP12, the biggest improvement i`ve ever heard!! forget power supplies, solid aluminium chassis, Carbon fibre Arm mount boards,fancy base plates. A small mod to the Main Bearing, blows the rest right out the ball park, cost!! Pennies.

Don't keep us in suspenders then, or is it beyond the home enthusiast?

[Deleted]

With apologies for mentioning 'another place' on this forum I was in exactly the same place as the OP Andy a few months ago and a Mod on that forum (not a very nice guy it subsequently transpired but generally accepted as being a knowledgeable and opinionated 'authority' on TTs in general and the Tecchie in particular), recommended me to 'invest' in a Sumiko Universal headshell and a Nagaoka N110 cartridge which he then set up for me, a decision I have every reason to be happy about. I have subsequently seen others make the same recommendation. I am not suggesting that Andy goes out now and spends the £120 ish that this involves but bear it in mind when thinking about spending money. Another frequently recommended upgrade for the Techie is a Herbies Way Excellent mat. This is cheaper to buy direct from Herbies in the USA than anyone in thew UK as far as I can find, about £50 I believe, but be sure to buy the one specifically for the Techie (lipped) platter.
Hope this helps.

[Nigel]

I have the Herbies on mine Dave. Great mat.

[Deleted]

Mike, you may know my dealer, you ever come across Analogue Seductions? run by Gary in Hampton Haragte?

Yes i do Andy.

[XTRProf]

Jan 29, 2010 20:57:39 GMT @heliharris said:

Anybody out there got a Linn LP12, the biggest improvement i`ve ever heard!! forget power supplies, solid aluminium chassis, Carbon fibre Arm mount boards,fancy base plates. A small mod to the Main Bearing, blows the rest right out the ball park, cost!! Pennies.

Care to share what small mode to the main bearing? I have the LP12.

[XTRProf]

Jan 28, 2010 16:26:17 GMT andy said:

I have a Technics SL1200 with a goldring cartridge and a silicome rubber matt with a thin foam topper (otherwise you cannot get the record off after playing). I am playing this into the phono amp on my Analogue Audio pre amp.

Now in theory this set up should sound good, not great but good. Still i find myself playing CD's over vinyl, and when i put a record on it dosnt 'do it' for me.

Would anyone be able to give me some ideas of things i can try to improve things a bit?

Thanks

Andy

Hi Andy,

Don't play too much with the mat and forget that the technics tonearm is just so so. Perhaps, you should concentrate on changing the tonearm will be better than playing about with accessories as this will give you a bigger change in the sound. If I were you, I will do just that.

[freddypipsqueek]

I might be totally wrong here but the 1200 is used in nightclubs throughout the world. I would look at the cartridges used by DJ's to see what suits the deck in its standard form. I expect there is a cheap one that is very musical - perhaps not the best quality - which should at least get your feet tapping and tell you whether further work or money is needed or the sound simply doesn't suit you.

And - I would repeat the need for basic setup. level, solid base, etc.

[PinkFloyd]

Feb 2, 2010 22:47:28 GMT freddypipsqueek said:

I might be totally wrong here but the 1200 is used in nightclubs throughout the world. I would look at the cartridges used by DJ's to see what suits the deck in its standard form. I expect there is a cheap one that is very musical - perhaps not the best quality - which should at least get your feet tapping and tell you whether further work or money is needed or the sound simply doesn't suit you.

And - I would repeat the need for basic setup. level, solid base, etc.

Word!

[Deleted]

You guys probably know this, but for tips, hints, tweaks etc., keep an eye on the Hi-fi mag. "Hi-Fi World". The editor David Price is a big fan of the Technics and they have regular articles on modding it, better arms , carts., etc.

[XTRProf]

Feb 3, 2010 3:56:09 GMT @ekbluesboy said:

You guys probably know this, but for tips, hints, tweaks etc., keep an eye on the Hi-fi mag. "Hi-Fi World". The editor David Price is a big fan of the Technics and they have regular articles on modding it, better arms , carts., etc.

Yeah, that guy is going banana over that! He's the best from all read ..........

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2010 22:47:28 GMT freddypipsqueek said:

I would look at the cartridges used by DJ's to see what suits the deck in its standard form.

The only fly in that ointment is that DJ styli are made to be tough, try and scratch with a standard stylus and you'll be replacing it PDQ. By that nature you need to pay more for similar SQ to a standard equivelant.

Something from Ortofons Concorde range would come to mind. I'd still stick to ATs in the standard arm though. I've never tried/heard Stuarts suggestion of a Shure in situ on a Technics so can't really comment beyond in theory, should be OK.

[Nigel]

I have the David Price, Technics review with modified RB300 on a pdf file. If anyone wants it pm me.