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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 3:47:45 GMT
That was due to the type of printing ink used on some earlier CDs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 20:19:48 GMT
Yes, i always use the top end of the VTF limits that the manufacturer specifies for my cartridge, i find this works well in my medium - high mass arm. Three weeks ago, for the first time in 20yrs, and at least a 1000hrs of use, examined my stylus under high magnification, NO visible wear at all was detected by myself or my friend that supplied and set up the microscope. There may be some softening of the cantilever suspension, by now, but specialised equipment would be required to test that, and as it still sounds spot on to my ear, i wont be having that checked out for the time being.
Of course there will be some wear to the Vinyl groove surface, and i have had to discard a few of my LP`s over the years, but not many, and the ones that have gone in the Bin, have NOT been the ones with the most play time on them, i suspect bad pressings from inferior dies to be the issue here, and NOT wear from my stylus.
I repeat what i have already said on this Forum, i have yet to hear a digital recording that will out perform my Vinyl set up in SQ, and presence, and believe me, i have heard a few comparisons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 21:08:33 GMT
Mick Sounds like you have never heard a really good CD played by a decent player into a Class A system and good imaging speakers.  As a self professed vinyl addict, you are never going to hear any different ,because your ears like what you hear with the colouration from vinyl and it's limited dynamic range. Vinyl simply is not good enough to fully recreate the dynamics and exquisite detail present on excellent recordings such as the original CD release of "Dire Straits-Love Over Gold" Unfortunately, the "Loudness Wars" has dragged the SQ of the majority of recent CD releases down to the level of Vinyl.(or worse !) Early sealed CD releases of quality recordings are highly sought after, and often the asking price is >US$70. Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 21:26:21 GMT
Yes i have Alex, and probably far more than you have, we have had this discussion before, i am not a Vinyl addict, i love my cd players, i just prefer for ultimate listening pleasure, my vinyl set up, because i know what my ears tell me, and others that have listened to my system agree, both are very good, but for shear presence, my vinyl has the edge, so can we just agree to disagree, because this will be a never ending debate between you and me other wise.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 21:34:03 GMT
Mick Then why make such provocative statements ? The sad fact is that to retain anywhere near the full dynamic range of a modern recording on vinyl, the playing time of a 33 1/3 LP would need to be reduced to something like 8-10 minutes per side. This is easily verified by Googling Vinyl pressing companies, and looking at their fact sheets regarding playing time. Alex www.zenithrecords.org/ click on : "Prepare Your Master |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 22:14:21 GMT
Ok Alex, have it your way, I AM WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT, quiet frankly i don`t give a damn, is that provocative enough for you.
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Post by MaN227 on Feb 21, 2010 23:16:39 GMT
silly me I guess  I looked at this thread thinking I was going to find talk of great albums. but ..... I enjoyed it all the same  I don't know jack about 'finer details' of things but I know what I like to hear. Good sounding music, not by someones idea of good, but mine. When someone has put time and money to put together what they feel is the best setup(for ANYTHING), things sound(are perceived as) even better to them, and they defend it even more. call it human nature. be it hifi or marbles, we will defend our choices at times to hell and back . Some folks go about it in a more aggressive way so as to put down someones gear, and or knowledge on any given topic. an example is whatever we have that is the newest/biggest purchase becomes the best. the others that we felt all were the BEST become yesterdays news. another example is an addict of ANYTHING, the addict will find ways to justify their addiction and defend it. be they right or wrong. I KNOW everyone who reads this has seen what I talk about be it friend, relative, from reading , TV or yourself even. there is good and bad in everything, there is no absolute or perfect. only our notions of perfection. Enjoy what you like, be it a 20,000 dollar set up or effn soup cans and string,  don't worry be happy   Life is short , Relax and enjoy it. lets have a hand shake and a nod and be on our merry way gents  call me what you will, sticks and stones, sticks and stones  but I feel better for having spoken. mind you its not about you two folks personally in the least, its general observations of the human condition we share. Peace MaN227 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 23:31:22 GMT
man227 What are you trying to do, stifle all robust discussion, and make the place as boring as hell ? I doubt that Mick is too fazed about the differences of opinion. In any case he has far less trivial matters to worry about, and I wish him well with his operation. SandyK |
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 22, 2010 11:32:55 GMT
....but for shear presence, my vinyl has the edge, I grin until my jaw nearly drop when what I heard was replicated and reflected by another good system. I support what you had said there. I call it the third or twilight dimension for those who had compared seriously and heard it. Oh, the shear ambience, emotion, air, volume, depth and 3 dimensionality of the recording environment. Ooo, la, la ........  Btw, I like digital as well but for really some serious enjoyment, I will pick ........ Gentlemen, can we be more gentle like ladies and agree to disagree. Just remember this is a vinyl column. |
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 22, 2010 11:53:28 GMT
Vinyl simply is not good enough to fully recreate the dynamics and exquisite detail present on excellent recordings such as the original CD release of "Dire Straits-Love Over Gold" I agree with the dynamics but not the details and the presence. This played to death track by hifi nuts, I had heard many times in many systems from those digital and vinyl camps. Yes, we are talking of things like Esoteric, DCS, Sim Audio vs Linn, SOTA, Goldmund, Continuum, etc. Sorry to say, the vinyl camp outplay the digital on that track front. Even many hifi dealers dealing them agreed. I want digital to succeed but they everytime disappoint when cost-no-object digital come face to face with cost-no-object vinyl systems. Sob, sob and ........  Sorry gentlemen, I'm too tire to carry on here after today schedule. Bye-bye for now ..... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 13:41:30 GMT
'Magic' is in the air. Magic is so much fun to 'experience' (see/hear/feel). But a magic act is not magic anymore once you know the magic behind the act. Indeed we all must kindly agree to disagree but it must not kill the debate for each of us can always learn a thing or two from a good debate. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 20:08:37 GMT
Was this thread originally in the Vinyl area, that was quoted as having Nigel as the Moderator ?  Chong But you prefer valve amplifiers too, which suggests that your preferences may be quite biased by how you would prefer music to sound, as distinct from the way it was originally recorded.( leaving out the usual reply from you about valve amps and guitars ! ) Alex |
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 22, 2010 23:33:35 GMT
Was this thread originally in the Vinyl area, that was quoted as having Nigel as the Moderator ? I knew you would end up stirring the shit so I declined Mike's offer of being a moderator in this section. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:00:11 GMT
Was this thread originally in the Vinyl area, that was quoted as having Nigel as the Moderator ? I knew you would end up stirring the shit so I declined Mike's offer of being a moderator in this section. URL=http://img8.imageshack.us/i/fockfockfock.gif/]  [/URL] Nigel If someone makes claims about the superiority of vinyl playback that can not be substantiated technically, then even if I do not comment, there are a couple of qualified EEs, and others in RG that most likely will at some stage decide to differ. I have to keep copping taunts about valves all the time too, from Miguel, Ian , Chong and others. And most of all from Mike who loves the bloody things so much, that he is trying to stockpile the world's dwindling supplies of brand new vintage tubes. I just hope that he makes money on them while he is still able to enjoy the proceeds from their sale. Alex |
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Post by clausdk on Feb 23, 2010 0:12:17 GMT
Nigel If someone makes claims about the superiority of vinyl playback that can not be substantiated technically, then even if I do not comment, there are a couple of qualified EEs, and others in RG that most likely will at some stage decide to differ. I have to keep copping taunts about valves all the time too, from Miguel, Ian , Chong and others. And most of all from Mike who loves the bloody things so much, that he is trying to stockpile the world's dwindling supplies of brand new vintage tubes. I just hope that he makes money on them while he is still able to enjoy the proceeds from their sale. Alex Well it is a bit like when someone is claming that ripping with a bluray device makes better sound, than a normal dvdrom, also without technical evidence to back it up.. Sorry, could not resist Going to the bunker now ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by mrarroyo on Feb 23, 2010 0:15:35 GMT
The truth is that Alex owns an expensive TT and a tube amp to go with it. He just fails to admit it since he has the "persona" of an SS guy which is not really true. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:19:35 GMT
Nigel If someone makes claims about the superiority of vinyl playback that can not be substantiated technically, then even if I do not comment, there are a couple of qualified EEs, and others in RG that most likely will at some stage decide to differ. I have to keep copping taunts about valves all the time too, from Miguel, Ian , Chong and others. And most of all from Mike who loves the bloody things so much, that he is trying to stockpile the world's dwindling supplies of brand new vintage tubes. I just hope that he makes money on them while he is still able to enjoy the proceeds from their sale. Alex Well it is a bit like when someone is claming that ripping with a bluray device makes better sound, than a normal dvdrom, also without technical evidence to back it up.. Sorry, could not resist Going to the bunker now ;D ;D ;D Claus You will keep ! I am still waiting on Peter St. from XXHE (www.phasure.com) to get around to finally checking the differences he heard , with his very sophisticated test gear. I must remember to login to Chat one night and give you a hard time ! Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:27:09 GMT
The truth is that Alex owns an expensive TT and a tube amp to go with it. He just fails to admit it since he has the "persona" of an SS guy which is not really true. Sorry Miguel, but I gave the TT and records to a friend. As for the valve amplifiers, they impressed me so much that I can't even remember what I did with them all those years ago. I do however remember what I did with the phono preamp that I built, as I heard it again only a couple of months ago, and it would still be superior to the vast majority of today's I.C. based RIAA preamps. I would like to hear it fed via a JLH though, if my friend ever gets around to it. Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:49:28 GMT
Maybe all the differences in opinion are caused by CD champions have a one sided view, whereas LP champions see both side A and B Claus, you made me laugh! Though if those measurements Alex mentioned confirm the heard differences, I guess he'll have the last laugh. Spot light on you Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:53:40 GMT
Maybe all the differences in opinion are caused by CD champions have a one sided view, whereas LP champions see both side A and B Claus, you made me laugh! Though if those measurements Alex mentioned confirm the heard differences, I guess he'll have the last laugh. Spot light on you Alex Chris If you think I am all BS, why bother with any of the projects that I have posted in RG , or the modifications that I have described ? After all, my modifications were based on subjective differences. Alex |
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Post by clausdk on Feb 23, 2010 0:56:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 1:01:35 GMT
Claus
There are now some commercial gadgets that can be placed in line to do that, but I think some are restricted in the bandwidth of the Optical OUT usually employed, although Toslink can now have wider bandwidth than previously.
Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 1:04:32 GMT
Chris If you think I am all BS, why bother with any of the projects that I have posted in RG , or the modifications that I have described ? After all, my modifications were based on subjective differences. Alex Touche monsieur! EARS! Always the best testers and I trust mine, like you do yours. You are also way further down the digital route than I am. I can only compare what I currently have with my preference well stated. I have also come to think that you look for similar criteria in music reproduction to mine. This is why I'm proceeding with the SCHQDAC, again on the back of your findings. I am very much looking forward to close the gap at home. I will be very happy if digital can finally come of age, it is so much more convenient. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 1:08:43 GMT
Chris
Don't just rely on my findings, after all, some claim that I hear imaginary differences. ;D Look at Jeff's latest post about the simplied onboard filtering that I suggested way back near the start of the SC DAC thread.
I will send you an email with further info
Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 1:38:30 GMT
Alex, Received, thanks. Chris PS counting down, kit comes to Spain on the 11th March |
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I looked at this thread thinking I was going to find talk of great albums. but ..... I enjoyed it all the same 
don't worry be happy 
Btw, I like digital as well but for really some serious enjoyment, I will pick ........ 
