compairing OPA's in WNA MKII

[FritzS]

I want to use my WNA MKII on a second place in my house - with the old Philips CD650 too.
Headphone is the 25 Ohm impedance Denon AH D7000

Last testing OPA was the LME49710NA - it plays very good - but I am not totally happy with it.

So I searched further, after the LME49710NA I put in ...

OPA134 similar, but a bit more musically than the LME49710NA
OPA604 similar to the OPA134, but a bit more muted
LM6171 that's is - very detailed, more punch, the D7000 likes the LM6171 in the WNA MKII

My special mods in the WNA you found here
www.stockhammer.at/hifi/wna-main.php

I hear music if I write this text - the longer, the better the music are played, the WNA and CD640 burning in - they had a longer time out before

Music:
Audio - Digital Masters I / Sara K. + some Chesky & Telarc (Classic) samplers
www.audio.de/Heftvorschau/audio_6269702.html

The Klezmatics - Live in Berlin
www.klezmatics.com/

Neil Diamond - Jonathan Livingston Seagull
Paul Simon - Graceland

PS: My opinion - this statements are subjektiv - objective are only ABX tests with two similar amps but different OPA's and a ABX switcher.
But this statement is be true for the most of the DIY test's ..... or?

[Deleted]

OPA134 similar, but a bit more musically than the LME49710NAOPA604 similar to the OPA134, but a bit more mutedLM6171 that's is - very detailed, more punch, the D7000 likes the LM6171 in the WNA MKII

Friedrich
Your findings would be very much power supply related in the particular HA you are using, and unlikely to give the same order of results elsewhere.

objective are only ABX tests with two similar amps but different OPA's and a ABX switcher.

ABX testing is something beloved of people in the IT Industry.
All equipment evaluations should be performed in a relaxed atmosphere with no preconceptions of the result. ABX testing does not give you the opportunity to see if one version leaves you more relaxed and enjoying the experience more. You don't listen to your favourite music like you are in a school examination room with your future hanging on the outcome, so why do it when evaluating electronic gear ? !

Alex

[FritzS]

Dec 31, 2009 20:32:21 GMT @sandyk said:

Friedrich
Your findings would be very much power supply related in the particular HA you are using, and unlikely to give the same order of results elsewhere.

You could have right - but I compared the WNA as is - the WNA SMPSU are better than the same from Solo.

ABX testing is something beloved of people in the IT Industry.
All equipment evaluations should be performed in a relaxed atmosphere with no preconceptions of the result. ABX testing does not give you the opportunity to see if one version leaves you more relaxed and enjoying the experience more. You don't listen to your favourite music like you are in a school examination room with your future hanging on the outcome, so why do it when evaluating electronic gear ? !
Alex

I think about a ABX test's in a relaxed atmosphere. It must give a way to neutralize the autosuggestion. IMHO some of hearing differences are an effect of autosuggestion

I learned as I compared the headphones - the differences are only a short time noticeable, after longer hearing the closed loop - headphone, ear, brain - decrease the differences. The personal mood are a dominant what we observe too

Hearing is very complex. To understand it - a course of studies in Psychoacustic, Psychology, Neurology, etc. are needed.

But we want fun .... not working

[Deleted]

the WNA SMPSU are better than the same from Solo.

Friedrich
The actual external PSU plays a part, but as Robert will verify, there is also a major contribution from PCB layout and onboard bypass capacitors, both in type and location.This is usually far more important than the external PSU itself. Check out Robert's version of the SC HA .

learned as I compared the headphones - the differences are only a short time noticeable, after longer hearing the closed loop - headphone, ear, brain - decrease the differences. The personal mood are a dominant what we observe too.

Definitely ! ;D Don't try comparing music tracks after an argument with "she who must be obeyed" ! or when tired, (or DRUNK !!!).
After listening to a new amplifier or a new DAC for a day or 2, you need to go back to the original again for a short period. The differences will become more obvious again.

IMHO some of hearing differences are an effect of autosuggestion

Not for experienced listeners. There is no reason why music selections have to be in a particular order. Play files with identical names from different folders. More often than not when they are part of an extended listening session you will not remember which are which. If you then hear discernible differences, then check which folders they come from. But most important is to play them right through when relaxed. When you are fairly sure that you are hearing differences, then home in on that particular section in each version, to see if you can identify the differences.
Are you still able to play 24/96 files ?
Alex

[FritzS]

Jan 2, 2010 6:33:36 GMT @sandyk said:

Definitely ! Don't try comparing music tracks after an argument with "she who must be obeyed" ! or when tired, (or DRUNK !!!).
After listening to a new amplifier or a new DAC for a day or 2, you need to go back to the original again for a short period. The differences will become more obvious again.

Going back, I take this too - sometimes with surprising results, ......
I test a new headphone or HA and think WOW I hear things I dont hear every time before, after went back to the old settings, this »new« details are present too .... very disillusionment

Not for experienced listeners. There is no reason why music selections have to be in a particular order. Play files with identical names from different folders. More often than not when they are part of an extended listening session you will not remember which are which. If you then hear discernible differences, then check which folders they come from. But most important is to play them right through when relaxed. When you are fairly sure that you are hearing differences, then home in on that particular section in each version, to see if you can identify the differences.

IMHO - sometimes switching between different amps, DAC's, cables, etc. are useful, but this needed a real, very good switch, with short switching time and exact the same level. Very little differences between hearable, if played the same cut of music again. Both, longer hearing and AB have right to exist and helpful to evaluate.

I think about the hearing differences of exact the same musik files - one from a magnetic HD and one of a SSD.
One could be - magnetic HD's produce much more electromagnetical disturbances, they could influence the DAC.

IMHO - one way to confirm this - play the music from a laptop only with accu, well-placed long distanced away from the DAC, connected with optical TOSLINK.
A computer don't work synchronous - it produced many jitter - only a FiFo buffer in the DAC could block this off. If the FiFo buffer large enough, a difference should not be hearable.

Are you still able to play 24/96 files ?

Today I dont have an external DAC - I give back the loaned Grace DAC

I search for an very good DAC - top to 24/192, USB 2.0 or 3.0, TOSLINK, S-PDIF, ....
X-DAC v3 are a good joice, but no longer produced, or?

[Deleted]

I think about the hearing differences of exact the same musik files - one from a magnetic HD and one of a SSD. One could be - magnetic HD's produce much more electromagnetical disturbances, they could influence the DAC.

Friedrich
I believe the difference is Jitter from the HDD.
BTW, a friend from DIYAudio visited me today.
He has also constructed the SC DAC, with very good results after modifications. He also heard clear differences between a CD played back using Creative Media Source Player into my X-DAC V3 then Class A HA when using both the Pioneer DVD writer and the LG BR writer. He was also amazed at how much better it sounded when the tracks previously ripped from the same CD to the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB 2.0 pen using the LG BR writer were played,in comparison with the direct playback from either writer, using the identical playback software and hardware. He did judge the direct playback from the LG BR writer to be closer to the SQ of the USB pen's playback, however.
Unfortunately, he owns a Mac !

Alex

[FritzS]

Jan 3, 2010 8:55:48 GMT @sandyk said:

Friedrich
I believe the difference is Jitter from the HDD.
BTW, a friend from DIYAudio visited me today.
He has also constructed the SC DAC, with very good results after modifications. He also heard clear differences between a CD played back using Creative Media Source Player into my X-DAC V3 then Class A HA when using both the Pioneer DVD writer and the LG BR writer. He was also amazed at how much better it sounded when the tracks previously ripped from the same CD to the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB 2.0 pen using the LG BR writer were played,in comparison with the direct playback from either writer, using the identical playback software and hardware. He did judge the direct playback from the LG BR writer to be closer to the SQ of the USB pen's playback, however.
Unfortunately, he owns a Mac !

Jitter from the HDD? The most jitter coming from the OS self - I think the OS self make a difference if he read from HDD or SSD - but why don't the FiFo from the DAC not eliminate this jitter? Please tell your friend about my theory of HDD electromagnetical disturbances and best regard to him from me too

About X-DAC V3 - gives a good, recommend source of purchase?

[Deleted]

Jitter from the HDD?

Yes, otherwise why would the SQ improve when the HDD is dampened with the 3M 2552 tape ?


[/quote]About X-DAC V3 - gives a good, recommend source of purchase? [/quote]

Friedrich
AFAIK , the X-DAC V3 has not been available for a few years now. It also only goes up to 24/96 although it upsamples to 24/192.
However there were a lot of good components used such as decent SPDIF transformers, and a good 24.576MHZ clock module.
Alex

P.S.
Another RG member now has a working SC DAC too.
You will just have to wait! ;D