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Post by andy on Feb 2, 2010 13:22:39 GMT
So now you know, what would you do witht eh stickers?
Keep or chuck?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 14:22:53 GMT
Excellent question !
From a technical point of view I would say: keep 'em.
From an RG point of view: Rip off the bloody things ... way better.
From my personal point of view: Can't recommend anything really.. simply because I haven't taken them off myself ...YET.. and gave it a good listen!
Bottom line .. chuck it if you feel good about or keep it..
or chuck it and if you don't feel it is an improvement put it back on.
What the heck.. they are your cans do with it as you please !
B.T.W. he didn't explain the EXACT function of the sticker because I ONLY asked if the sticker was used to make the 3 versions.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 15:00:40 GMT
And is it?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 15:38:27 GMT
You can ask him yourself .. he knows YOU too Mike !  I only asked him if the sticker was used to create the 3 versions. I did NOT ask him what the specific function of the sticker IS. Be it a resonance chamber, a cheap way of fixing the HF part, a way of creating a certain wavefront, a way to create an equal load of the diaphragm in front AND back of it, a way to damp resonances, or even a way to start people guessing and forming a thread ?... I bet we can come up with a shitload of other assumptions and guesses that sometimes will be proclaimed to be IT (the TRUTH, without really knowing). ;D But as someone said earlier ... they will NOT give away certain info to the public. Also I will not tell what specific info I have because I promissed NOT to do that (make it public). Nobody wants to break promisses now do they.. Well I don't I value my honesty.  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 15:48:00 GMT
He's a busy man Frans, I don't want to bother him with silly questions about stickers  My personal pair of ears prefer the sound without the paper stickers but, if they are there for a reason, then my ears may be "wrong" but I'm not going to argue with them..... they've been attached to my head for 48 years and I don't want to upset them.... they may drop off  |
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Post by covenant on Feb 2, 2010 16:31:00 GMT
Excellent question ! From a technical point of view I would say: keep 'em. From an RG point of view: Rip off the bloody things ... way better. From my personal point of view: Can't recommend anything really.. simply because I haven't taken them off myself ...YET.. and gave it a good listen! Bottom line .. chuck it if you feel good about or keep it.. or chuck it and if you don't feel it is an improvement put it back on. What the heck.. they are your cans do with it as you please ! B.T.W. he didn't explain the EXACT function of the sticker because I ONLY asked if the sticker was used to make the 3 versions. Your opinion of the cans with the sticker removed would be valued-the more comment the better. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 16:45:44 GMT
I know Andrew Chung is a busy man. Still he took the time and gave me an elaborate answer also on things on a more personal note. a very nice guy ! If something SOUNDS better it doesn't mean it IS better b.t.w. but this is another discussion/thread ;D BUT in this forum it is all about the SOUND so.... In this respect you're absolutely right !  When I have received my new batch of HD681's I will take 'm off and will vent my opinion on this forum.  |
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 2, 2010 18:10:31 GMT
@ Rick, Ask the 15 people who I provided with a filter containing the exact same components as I PM'd you how they find the filter to be. These people are certainly not the least people when it comes to evaluating can's I might add. If these people agree I will PM you their names. No doubt there will be people that 'improve' my idea and will claim their version (with other coils, capacitor types, resistor values) will be much better. I don't care it works... and it works fine. I would have been on your same page if the coils were used in the signal path of speakers. At ear deafening levels the used coils still aren't near saturation levels. c'mon ... Feel free to use any coil you can lay your hands on. Just keep the resistance below 2.5 Ohms and mind the saturation levels. I have been designing audio electronics and later fail-safe railway electronics (where lives depend upon) and a lot about EMC solutions for MANY years and do KNOW what I am talking about and which components to use or not. ;D Also I do know how to read datasheets too and have had a good set of ears installed later in life  (yeah yeah the brain part had to be modified too I guess ). But I am certainly not anal about these details. sems you may have misunderstood my query so let me go into detail 1-if you allow that ALL parts have a "sound" (wire,resistors,caps,et.) then youmust too conceed that swapping out the caps for another brand or type can change the entire tonality of the filter as wood possiblyoverly soft carbon comp resistors or overly bright cheap a*s metal films. 2-Iron (series or shunt) can also be dramatic in its ability to shift the sonics from romantic to dead on cold and that from my current/recent swapping out of a "lowly" 10K bridgingn transformer where the Sowters are romantic and sweet,the Jensens/CineMags dead nuetral and the Lundah ? too expensive just for a test (Edcors on the way ) Yes,extreme examples but also an example of how we design audio gear A-design and build to the onn paper desing uswing whatever parts B-fie tune those parts by ear C-re-chack you are still on spec D-Re-tune,etc........................................ So While i am NOT saying you did not get this nailed Ineed to build a version or two before I can or will conceded which is "BEST" for me personallytaste,prejudices and all Rickamundo |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 18:35:51 GMT
Well mine are off. Removed from my experimental pair of 681`s first and thought Hmmmm, that sounds more open, and better placement of instuments, singers etc. Now removed them from my listening pair, and enjoying what im hearing, made some .5mm thick aluminium replacements in case i change my mind, but for the time being im happy with the SQ, STICKERLESS. My filter has arrived from Frans, and if it sounds as good as it looks( superbly presented, lovely workmanship :  i will be more than happy, the Velour pads are very nice too, very comfortable( not so thick as the originals, hence not so much pressure on my head, the originals i find a little uncomfortable on this issue, with prolonged use.), so will give the whole caboodle a listen tonight.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 19:11:27 GMT
< edited >
Didn't read Rick's comments very well.
I was in an overworked/heavily stressed period at that time.
I do not 'believe' in sonic differences between caps, and resistors.
Inductors quality depends on the core and saturation of the core above a certain point.
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 2, 2010 20:59:23 GMT
@ Rick, Ask the 15 people who I provided with a filter containing the exact same components as I PM'd you how they find the filter to be. These people are certainly not the least people when it comes to evaluating can's I might add. If these people agree I will PM you their names. No doubt there will be people that 'improve' my idea and will claim their version (with other coils, capacitor types, resistor values) will be much better. I don't care it works... and it works fine. I would have been on your same page if the coils were used in the signal path of speakers. At ear deafening levels the used coils still aren't near saturation levels. c'mon ... Feel free to use any coil you can lay your hands on. Just keep the resistance below 2.5 Ohms and mind the saturation levels. I have been designing audio electronics and later fail-safe railway electronics (where lives depend upon) and a lot about EMC solutions for MANY years and do KNOW what I am talking about and which components to use or not. ;D Also I do know how to read datasheets too and have had a good set of ears installed later in life (yeah yeah the brain part had to be modified too I guess ). But I am certainly not anal about these details. sems you may have misunderstood my query so let me go into detail 1-if you allow that ALL parts have a "sound" (wire,resistors,caps,et.) then you must too concede that swapping out the caps for another brand or type can change the entire tonality of the filter as would possibly if using overly soft carbon comp resistors or overly bright cheap a*s metal films be dramatic. 2-Iron (series or shunt) can also be dramatic in its ability to shift the sonics from romantic to dead on cold and that from my current/recent swapping out of a "lowly" 10K bridgingn transformer where the Sowters are romantic and sweet,the Jensens/CineMags dead nuetral and the Lundah ? too expensive just for a test (Edcors on the way ) Yes,extreme examples but also an example of how we design audio gear A-design and build to the onn paper desing uswing whatever parts B-fie tune those parts by ear C-re-chack you are still on spec D-Re-tune,etc........................................ So While i am NOT saying you did not get this nailed Ineed to build a version or two before I can or will conceded which is "BEST" for me personallytaste,prejudices and all Rickamundo |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 22:00:23 GMT
Hi Rick, Where did you get the idea I just 'slapped' something together' without any knowledge and didn't even bother to listen to it ? Where have you read or even asked me if the filter wasn't tuned using a set of (good ?) ears too. At which point in time did you think I know absolutely nothing about even the basics of electronics. Where did you get the idea that the filter wasn't designed properly. How did you get the idea it was tuned by a lucky shot. You redesign it... find better parts... squeeze the last tinsy vinsy bit out of it. Making the filter the way it is now took me well over a month of listening, MEASURING, simulating and MANY years of experience with filters and electronics and audio. I don't need lectures on the properties of certain parts. I used parts that can be mounted inside the cans so they wouldn't take up too much space and it works fine as other RG members can validate. Sure you can use other parts, bigger coils, other materials, other types of caps that are considered audiophile. Just wouldn't fit anymore now would it ? I made the boxed filters because I was ASKED by RG members with the same parts I used for the internal mod. How did you get the idea I just 'grabbed' some components I accidentally had or can't you figure out these (and other parts I tried) were just selected and BOUGHT for this sole purpose ? Where did you get the idea that if I publish something (had the PDF already BEFORE this thread started and have had contact on it with Andrew Chung before you knew the guy existed) You really SHOULD not put me down here on this forum as some kind of idiot who doesn't KNOW what he is doing. If I PM you (which I did a few times) it is polite to answer.. not bash or question someone in public on your forum (Mike doesn't) If you have any questions or remarks just PM as as other members did and there you can have CONSTRUCTIVE and polite conversations with me in Proper English.. and this is not even my native language. Perhaps I should go to your rant-zone I reckon. There I have said it... that's of my chest... guite a load and didn't need a rant zone either. You're very welcome to have polite conversations with me on PM's and hope I didn't offend you too much. All Rick is saying is that "all" components exhibit their own "signature" on the sound, and I totally agree with him. He then goes onto say he would prefer to try a few different components to get the signature that suits "his" ears. He is not questioning the validity of your filter or your design capabilities, he is merely throwing the fact that "there is more than one way to skin a cat" into the mix. I actually applaud Rick's observations and thought that you would be the first to agree that different components exhibit different sonic flavours and there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to personal sonic preferences. I think you want to re-read Rick's posts Frans SURE, your filter does the business but (with different components / of the same value) it may suit other people's ears better..... he is simply stating the fact that we have a wide choice of components to select from and nothing is set in concrete. The main reason Rick is one of the most respected people in our "hobby" is, he doesn't consider the world flat and is always thinking out of the box promoting (not only) fresh ideas but a fresh outlook. Mike. So while I am NOT saying you did not get this nailed I need to build a version or two before I can or will conceed which is "BEST" for me personally. Taste, prejudices and all Rickamundo Perfectly valid comment Frans and takes your filter "further".... hopefully, people WILL start experimenting with the parts (I will) and reach a decision on what's best for them according to their own set of ears. You have provided a starting point, we can now fine tune the tone with our own flavour of component. Pinkie. |
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Post by clausdk on Feb 2, 2010 22:03:50 GMT
The only way to skin a cat I know is to grap a cat and rip off the skin, easier said than done if they are still alive ;D ;D How do you skin your cats ??  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:09:36 GMT
Hi Rick, a fellow RG member has explained your 'situation' of which I was unaware of (quite new to the forum). I will sent you the parts I use FOC (just learned this expression from Mick ) when I have received them. just PM me your address data. Enjoy music while you can, the filter, as designed, will surely help and if you feel it can be made better just donate the parts I sent to someone that isn't that concerned about my 'handywork' and wants to suck out the absolute last final tinsy vinsy itsi bitsy more out of the filter. Let everybody know how YOU think the filter should/could be improved. Take care ! |
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Post by covenant on Feb 2, 2010 22:12:18 GMT
Group hug!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 22:18:34 GMT
Hi Rick, a fellow RG member has explained your 'situation' of which I was unaware of (quite new to the forum). I will sent you the parts I use FOC (just learned this expression from Mick ) when I have received them. just PM me your address data. Enjoy music while you can, the filter, as designed, will surely help and if you feel it can be made better just donate the parts I sent to someone that isn't that concerned about my 'handywork' and wants to suck out the absolute last final tinsy vinsy itsi bitsy more out of the filter. Let everybody know how YOU think the filter should/could be improved. Take care ! Rick doesn't need sympathy, you need to understand and "read" his posts Frans.... at no time did he "diss" you (or your filter) he simply threw "component flavours" into the pot. Mike. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 22:23:06 GMT
You feel like being the first member here to be banned for life? Well.... do you punk? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:58:06 GMT
It wasn't his sympathy I was after nor anybody else's for that matter.
The explanation I received made me realize what the mail you sent me earlier was all about (talking about sympathy eh ?).
But please.. let this thread be about the HD681 modifications and leave Rick's personal things out of here nor my inability to 'read' properly (English is not my native language).
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 2, 2010 23:11:49 GMT
It wasn't his sympathy I was after nor anybody else's for that matter. The explanation I received made me realize what the mail you sent me earlier was all about (talking about sympathy eh ?). But please.. let this thread be about the HD681 modifications and leave Rick's personal things out of here nor my inability to 'read' properly (English is not my native language). My "sympathy" reference was NOT aimed at you. "Rick" doesn't need sympathy.... his points, re: your filter, are VALID... the fact that he isn't well doesn't give you the right dismiss his observations with "sympathy" ;D English is not your native language but you've got a bloody good understanding of the lingo when it comes to charging money....... You understand VERY well Frans ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 23:13:57 GMT
Frans You have a problem reading or writing English ? Boy, you could have fooled me !! At no time, during our recent communications have I even thought for a moment, that perhaps English was not your native tongue ! The accent may be a give away though? Alex |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 23:25:29 GMT
< edited >
Didn't read Rick's comments very well.
I was in an overworked/heavily stressed period at that time.
I do not 'believe' in sonic differences between caps, and resistors.
Inductors quality depends on the core and saturation of the core above a certain point.
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 3, 2010 1:37:31 GMT
All good,I'll just build and listen without any of you cats even knowing I did it then decide for myself if the cans are keepers or not.Not my show on this one dude but Franz's.Was just trying to expand the converstion is all........................
Rick out
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Post by MaN227 on Feb 3, 2010 7:06:18 GMT
You feel like being the first member here to be banned for life? Well.... do you punk? best post of the day here. I was rolling I'm quite keen on finding out more of these new cans, or updates if you will. are these perhaps the cans on their site now? as none have price listed, just TBA... off to bed, Peace  |
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robertkd
Been here a while! 
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 3, 2010 8:45:47 GMT
The only way to skin a cat I know is to grap a cat and rip off the skin, easier said than done if they are still alive ;D ;D How do you skin your cats ?? A stick of gelignite ;D |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 3, 2010 11:11:11 GMT
The only way to skin a cat I know is to grap a cat and rip off the skin, easier said than done if they are still alive ;D ;D How do you skin your cats ?? A stick of gelignite ;D I boil mine and then skin them from tail to head ;D |
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My personal pair of ears prefer the sound without the paper stickers but, if they are there for a reason, then my ears may be "wrong" but I'm not going to argue with them..... they've been attached to my head for 48 years and I don't want to upset them.... they may drop off 
(yeah yeah the brain part had to be modified too I guess 
i will be more than happy, the Velour pads are very nice too, very comfortable( not so thick as the originals, hence not so much pressure on my head, the originals i find a little uncomfortable on this issue, with prolonged use.), so will give the whole caboodle a listen tonight. 
