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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2010 15:38:46 GMT
You wanna really open the sound of these headphones up guys? Seeing as nobody has done the obvious I will let you into a little secret  It says "do not remove the acoustic grille" but it doesn't say "do not remove the sticker" What we have here is a bloody paper sticker which covers a quarter of the diapgragm... peel it off and have a listen  Before:  After:  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2010 15:43:34 GMT
Maybe the paper sticker "is" an acoustic damper but seeing it sounds better with it removed I doubt it ;D AND, if it was an acoustic damper the plastc grille would have it built in, it wouldn't have to rely on a thin paper sticker.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 16:55:14 GMT
You DARE DEVIL  !! What aspect of the SQ has become better ? You will also have solved the sticker left and right problem right there  ! I Will give it a go Mike as soon as my new shipment of (unmodified) HD681's comes in. Seeing the construction/airway path, with a sticker on it, about 25% of the signal produced by the driver would be 'vented out' via a small hole on the edge-side of the sticker and this MIGHT be considered as some kind of ported resonance chamber  ? thanks for the WD40 and other chemical shit tip. Will certainly give the stuff I have a go. |
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Post by puffin on Jan 30, 2010 18:07:24 GMT
You wanna really open the sound of these headphones up guys? Seeing as nobody has done the obvious I will let you into a little secret It says "do not remove the acoustic grille" but it doesn't say "do not remove the sticker" What we have here is a bloody paper sticker which covers a quarter of the diapgragm... peel it off and have a listen Blimey.  |
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toad
Been here a while! 
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
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Post by toad on Jan 30, 2010 19:01:02 GMT
That'll be the stickers I removed the day I got my HD681s then  |
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Post by andy on Jan 30, 2010 19:52:27 GMT
Pinky,
Whilst your im the mood for removing things, what about removing the white paper ring around the edge?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 20:17:43 GMT
What ... nobody removed the foam disks yet ?
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Post by covenant on Jan 30, 2010 20:53:43 GMT
Dont you think that the white paper ring is what makes it a semi-open design?
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Post by andy on Jan 30, 2010 21:06:53 GMT
Frans,
I didnt remove the foam disks as i have bigger ears than some and my ears touch the plastic sometimes! so i kept the foam disks, much more comfortable.
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Post by clausdk on Jan 30, 2010 21:37:28 GMT
What ... nobody removed the foam disks yet ? sure I did, but I am not sure if I like it better  it becomes a bit clearer in the highs and lose a tinsy vinsy amount of bass |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 22:04:46 GMT
I was only joking... ;D It is there to protect the driver from dust and hairs e.t.c. but your assessment of what would change if you were to leave it out is exactly what I would expect. Experimenting is fun !! I had bought (and use) the foam pads from AKG as I hoped they would be of higher quality somehow (they cost nearly nothing) but I can hardly tell the difference when looking and blowing through them and (more important) listening through them between the Superlux and AKG pad but use the AKG foam disk anyway just.... in case. maybe the AKG foam won't fall apart as fast as Superlux stuff but then again the Superlux stuff might surprise me ... again.. One can only tell for sure in a few years time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 22:09:50 GMT
I tried putting tissues and little bits of cloth in.......
Didn't think I'd tell anyone though.
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2010 23:00:36 GMT
The "difference" removing the stickers?.... to my ears, a "veil" has been lifted (no, SERIOUSLY).... it's now 100% diaphragm directed at my ears instead of 75% diaphragm..... The cheapest tweak so far (ie: "free") and, to my ears, one of the best...... Give it a go guys, all you have to do is pull that sticker off Mike. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2010 23:07:45 GMT
If anyone finds the removal of the sticker to be detrimental to the sound it's a simple case of making a new "sticker" and sticking it back on....... if you're really anal / paranoid you could form a piece of plastic in the same shape as the sticker and araldite it into place...... hell, you could araldite a piece of aluminium in place ;D
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toad
Been here a while!
I am the Super Toad, the Original Toad, the Whole Toad and nothing BUT the toad.... don't forget it!
Posts: 1,223
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Post by toad on Jan 31, 2010 9:37:17 GMT
The "difference" removing the stickers?.... to my ears, a "veil" has been lifted (no, SERIOUSLY).... it's now 100% diaphragm directed at my ears instead of 75% diaphragm..... The cheapest tweak so far (ie: "free") and, to my ears, one of the best...... Give it a go guys, all you have to do is pull that sticker off Mike. I found the soundstage opened out slightly. Other than that I could detect very little difference apart from maybe a slightly fuller sound. Both changes were subtle enough for me not to be confident enough to mention it to you guys. However this was before my HD681s had Micks rings etc so it may be more obvious on a tweaked 681. Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 10:09:32 GMT
Hi Mike, I suspect the guys at Superlux put it on there for a reason. The fact that it is more costly to design the front grille as they did and installed the sticker and made a vent hole of a specific size on the side will have been more costly then just making a uniform grill without the sticker (arguably). Still they did ... of coarse the sound will change if you take it off. The resonance chamber is gone, the way the sound waves travel from the diaphragm is altered. But if it sounds better it does... that's what this thread is all about in the end isn't it ? Too bad for us that Superlux didn't feel the same way because the HP would probably have been a few cent cheaper to produce and development costs of this sticker (and the reason for it) would have not been made so would decrease the development costs also and thus the sale price to make a profit (yes.. an AKG has a totally different construction when it comes to the drivers so yes.. no easy copy/paste there but real development in a lab with excellent measuring equipment) Why on earth was Superlux so stupid to install such a sticker and put a warning on it not to remove it just to make it sound worse. And they were telling us they want to provide us with the best possible sound.. go figure.  Maybe they'd better dump all their expensive development and measurement tools. But what the hell ... I'll take 'm off as an experiment some day ... honest. and if I do not forget I will post my outcome. Boy.. I am a very skeptic guy I guess ;D Solderdude. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 10:16:47 GMT
Frans Yes you are, but you may need to listen to something better than Mega Poop 3 to hear the improvement ! Alex |
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Post by andy on Jan 31, 2010 10:34:06 GMT
I would take a guess that for the cost of the headphone there was not a huge amount of R&D done.
It may even be that the original design had this sticker on and seeing as it sounded good it was never removed to check if it was necesery.
Well it is for us to try and see what happens.
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Post by derekrumble on Jan 31, 2010 11:02:06 GMT
Hi Mike, I suspect the guys at Superlux put it on there for a reason. The fact that it is more costly to design the front grille as they did and installed the sticker and made a vent hole of a specific size on the side will have been more costly then just making a uniform grill without the sticker (arguably). Still they did ... of coarse the sound will change if you take it off. The resonance chamber is gone, the way the sound waves travel from the diaphragm is altered. But if it sounds better it does... that's what this thread is all about in the end isn't it ? Too bad for us that Superlux didn't feel the same way because the HP would probably have been a few cent cheaper to produce and development costs of this sticker (and the reason for it) would have not been made so would decrease the development costs also and thus the sale price to make a profit (yes.. an AKG has a totally different construction when it comes to the drivers so yes.. no easy copy/paste there but real development in a lab with excellent measuring equipment) Why on earth was Superlux so stupid to install such a sticker and put a warning on it not to remove it just to make it sound worse. And they were telling us they want to provide us with the best possible sound.. go figure. Maybe they'd better dump all their expensive development and measurement tools. But what the hell ... I'll take 'm off as an experiment some day ... honest. and if I do not forget I will post my outcome. Boy.. I am a very skeptic guy I guess ;D Solderdude. It maybe that the presence or absence of the sticker, or its size and position may be all that is necessary to create the different tuning in each of the three 681s in the range. Juts a thought. Derek |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 11:18:04 GMT
Possibly ... but given the reported small effect when removing them and the differences between the 3 versions are huge (many dB's i.e. VERY noticeable, even for untrained ears) this is highly unlikely. Nope.. I think they were put there for a good reason and is not something they just slapped on there to open discussions, make it sound less good, or even just because they had it in stock anyway and needed to get rid of it. They certainly didn't copy it of the original design (the AKG K240) It did not have such a sticker/construction at all and had a totally different driver design !! so THAT can't be it. They developed their OWN driver (which is a good one by the way) and it is either a design that (by accident ?) worked out fine or decent knowledge of these matters ... IF they can produce more excellent sounding cans in the future with other drivers we'll know. Frans @ Alex.. damn.. I thought CD's and excellent quality HP amps that I use were considered to be good reference material ;D |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 31, 2010 11:18:33 GMT
It maybe that the presence or absence of the sticker, or its size and position may be all that is necessary to create the different tuning in each of the three 681s in the range. Just a thought. Derek Very good observation Derek and probably spot on too |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2010 11:31:25 GMT
Mike.. order some samples from Superlux... All three versions and verify this hypothesis... otherwise we would all be guessing at it would we now ?  the differences in the three versions range from bass shy to huge bass (the red ones we have without the suffix) Surely the difference you hear can't be this big (a staggering 20dB at 20 Hz  ) while the rest above 100 Hz seems to be quite the same. Or simply ask Andrew Chung ... I just did ;D Frans |
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Post by covenant on Jan 31, 2010 11:56:46 GMT
I would imagine the designers would be reluctant to give too much away. If they have hit upon a method of tailoring the sound at very low cost why broadcast it.
Trust your ears!
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Post by derekrumble on Jan 31, 2010 12:02:12 GMT
The driver in the 681 is obviously inexpensive. Probably a bit coarse; ragged at the top end? Cheap drivers of any sort usually are. The sticker is just a quick and dirty way to tame the top end I bet. And set up a bit of resonance lower down to fill in a trough or re-inforce some bass?
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Post by andy on Jan 31, 2010 12:21:19 GMT
The sticker may have been a cheep way to tame the sound that little bit.
Frans filter has done the same, but better by altering the flow of electrons rather than trying to change the accoustics of the speaker.
Just an idea?
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!!
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) while the rest above 100 Hz seems to be quite the same.