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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 1, 2009 21:25:27 GMT
No no....... the electrons grow a lot fatter inside a larger cable and when they come up against the single copper strand they've got to squeeze through, one by one.... just like fat people who eat too many burgers being forced down a chimney with a large stick ;D Mike Seeing you are thinking of making a better cable, at a good price, I will give you a very cheap alternative, that is guaranteed to sound better, at a very minimal cost. 1. Take the existing 10 foot headphone cord, and with your sidecutting pliers, chop through it at the 5 foot mark. 2. Reterminate the cable coming from the headphones in a new decent quality connector, of the same size as the original plug (3.5mm or 6.3mm) 3. Plug it in and sit closer to the headphone amplifier !  Now for the more technical side. The cable capacitance has been halved, and the HF will be improved. Coupling between channels has been decreased, and the soundstage will be improved because of better channel separation. Also less inductance, and less ohmic resistance in the leads.  Alex On the subject of "decent quality connectors" I have sent you a 6.3mm Neutrik jack along with your Superlux HD-681 so you can do the cut it down to 5 foot and reterminate it thang with them  If you want to get REALLY anal then hard wire the headphone lead direct to the amp's PCB..... if you are certain these are your "headphone of choice" then hardwiring direct is the only way to go..... same with interconnects, hardwire direct to the board... same with opamps, lose the DIP8 socket and solder direct to the board..... Most of the "connection" problems are just that..... "connection problems".... lose the plugs and sockets and you may gain a subtle improvement in SQ. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 21:37:27 GMT
Mike Seeing you are thinking of making a better cable, at a good price, I will give you a very cheap alternative, that is guaranteed to sound better, at a very minimal cost. 1. Take the existing 10 foot headphone cord, and with your sidecutting pliers, chop through it at the 5 foot mark. 2. Reterminate the cable coming from the headphones in a new decent quality connector, of the same size as the original plug (3.5mm or 6.3mm) 3. Plug it in and sit closer to the headphone amplifier ! Now for the more technical side. The cable capacitance has been halved, and the HF will be improved. Coupling between channels has been decreased, and the soundstage will be improved because of better channel separation. Also less inductance, and less ohmic resistance in the leads. Alex On the subject of "decent quality connectors" I have sent you a 6.3mm Neutrik jack along with your Superlux HD-681 so you can do the cut it down to 5 foot and reterminate it thang with them If you want to get REALLY anal then hard wire the headphone lead direct to the amp's PCB..... if you are certain these are your "headphone of choice" then hardwiring direct is the only way to go..... same with interconnects, hardwire direct to the board... same with opamps, lose the DIP8 socket and solder direct to the board..... Most of the "connection" problems are just that..... "connection problems".... lose the plugs and sockets and you may gain a subtle improvement in SQ. Hi Mike AND Ian. As you probably guessed, I was stirring, mainly for the benefit of Nigel, who appears to be biting very well at the moment.  I wonder if there is a market for shorter headphone cables, for those occasions when people want something better, without blowing the budget ? Alex P.S. I just noticed this option from Stefan Audio Arts : Tail End 5-ft (1.52 m) K1000 Headphone Cable Options |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 21:56:01 GMT
Well Alex, I'm thinking of going with two and half feet of cable but these valve amps are bloody hot and I've developed a burnt, red and bubbled nose using the prototype.
Then I cam up with something new.....
I was also thinking of wiring the plug in the top of the headband so you kind of headbutt the amp to get as clean a signal as possible. However, the shortest route is straight down rather than round to the ears so it needs a bit of work.
Also, if the cable is shorter than it is wider, do the elctrons get lost and just don't know which way to turn?
Actually, in 50 years, maybe we'll have nails implanted in the head and hear music automatically by twitching our noses. A true wireless.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 22:02:23 GMT
Ian Are you sure the red nose was caused by that ? That reminds me. I need to treat myself to a new bottle of Scotland's finest ! It might be summer downunder, but I would much rather warm myself inside that way, than stick my nose on a hot valve amplifier ! Alex  Perhaps they think that single fine strand of wire near the earpiecece is a footpath, and not the road way ? No wonder the poor things get all confused ! |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 1, 2009 22:09:35 GMT
I was also thinking of wiring the plug in the top of the headband so you kind of headbutt the amp to get as clean a signal as possible. Old school The modern way is to "nose" the CD direct.... not a lot of people know it but if you place your nose on a spinning CD the music transponds through your nostrils direct to your ears..... hardcore audiophiles utilise this method to great effect..... I advise you don't go down on a CD bareback though (even though some claim the experience is "more real man")... always wear a protective nose guard to prevent nostril screech (friction burns to the layman)..... I can send you an audio grade nose guard if you PM me your details ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 22:15:51 GMT
Well, at least the thread has it all in perspective and didn't disappear into its own ... I get the picture now. They may make slight differences (Especially tonal and spacial) basically because of capacitances within the cable. Not always for the better perhaps. Basically though, the front needs to provide the sound you want with the cable being the last thing on the menu really for a final (probably desperate) tweaking. This is probably why so many cable makers don't let you try for too long if they even offer!! One guy on HF emailed me offering a nice 'cheap' HD650 cable for £400. It probably came with a stopwatch on a chain to self-hypnotise and convince yourself it's really improved listening life. Who knows. I must stop acting the fool on the internet. I'm getting a reputation for being a mug.  Ian |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 1, 2009 22:19:43 GMT
I must stop acting the fool on the internet. I'm getting a reputation for being a mug. FAR from it Ian.... you're a clued up geezer and an asset to the internet..... keep doing what you do man, it's all good Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 22:24:27 GMT
Ian You are a braver man than me, Gunga Din ! Alex |
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Post by clausdk on Dec 1, 2009 23:14:05 GMT
If I cut the cable in ½ I would need extensioncables..
speaking of those would a supirior cable make a difference if it is extended with stock cable ?? I mean does the goodness stay in place or magical appear when they enter or leave the super duper cable..
Clearly you guys know zip and nada on electrons, they do not grow, they are just blown up..
Thinking about the bottle neck, well electrons are just about the smallest things in the universe, so you can probally have millions of them marching nice and uniform through the hairstrand, without getting any space issues.
Ian do not feel stupid, in this world the questions is much more important than the replys, if nobody had any stupid questions, we would not get anywhere, also it is nice to have "a brother in arms" that is almost as big a mug as myself..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 23:28:10 GMT
If I cut the cable in ½ I would need extensioncables.. speaking of those would a supirior cable make a difference if it is extended with stock cable ?? I mean does the goodness stay in place or magical appear when they enter or leave the super duper cable.. Clearly you guys know zip and nada on electrons, they do not grow, they are just blown up.. Thinking about the bottle neck, well electrons are just about the smallest things in the universe, so you can probally have millions of them marching nice and uniform through the hairstrand, without getting any space issues. Ian do not feel stupid, in this world the questions is much more important than the replys, if nobody had any stupid questions, we would not get anywhere, also it is nice to have "a brother in arms" that is almost as big a mug as myself.. Claus Of course Ian, myself and others realise this. It's all rather tongue in cheek,and meant to highlight the absurdity of some of the claims, as well as further stir Nigel . Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 6:33:47 GMT
If I cut the cable in ½ I would need extensioncables.. It's all rather tongue in cheek,and meant to highlight the absurdity of some of the claims, as well as further stir Nigel . Alex Oh bugger. I cut mine down to two inches. It's the weather - it's turned frosty in the south of UK. The sound IS amazing though. It seems that two inches is the ideal size. Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 6:48:55 GMT
If I cut the cable in ½ I would need extensioncables.. It's all rather tongue in cheek,and meant to highlight the absurdity of some of the claims, as well as further stir Nigel . Alex Oh bugger. I cut mine down to two inches. It's the weather - it's turned frosty in the south of UK. The sound IS amazing though. It seems that two inches is the ideal size. Ian Tell that to your wife !  |
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Post by toad on Dec 2, 2009 9:44:10 GMT
I wonder if the application of some WD40 would improve cables. ;D
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 2, 2009 11:19:50 GMT
If I cut the cable in ½ I would need extensioncables.. It's all rather tongue in cheek,and meant to highlight the absurdity of some of the claims, as well as further stir Nigel . Alex Oh bugger. I cut mine down to two inches. It's the weather - it's turned frosty in the south of UK. The sound IS amazing though. It seems that two inches is the ideal size. Ian |
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Post by Nigel on Dec 2, 2009 12:37:00 GMT
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Post by toad on Dec 2, 2009 13:44:45 GMT
I have some Blue Jeans cables and some I got off ebay made with Neutrik jacks and Vanne Dam cable. Both are very good and I doubt sepnding 10 or more times the amount would improve my listening experience... Colour it maybe... but improve it... Nah!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 13:44:52 GMT
Bet some of you cable disbelievers are still using some interconnects that came free with a Hitachi cassette deck back in 1973. I've got some pretty cables from Van de Hull and a very bright green one which I can't remember the name of. I also have Monsters so I suppose I succumbed in the interconnect area. (To an extent) With interconnect, it's not as uncomfortable as the things built for headphones. Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 13:47:44 GMT
Nigel, Are you going to experiment with these? Taking advantage of their "You no likey, We refundy" policy |
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Post by Nigel on Dec 2, 2009 14:26:36 GMT
Well, I'd like to hear them for sure. I've spent a bit too much money on hi-fi lately, but I've nearly reached the end target.
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Post by toad on Dec 2, 2009 14:48:40 GMT
I've got some pretty cables from Van de Hull and a very bright green one which I can't remember the name of. I also have Monsters so I suppose I succumbed in the interconnect area. (To an extent) Ian What are you experiences of the higher end cables Ian? |
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Post by pjc68 on Dec 2, 2009 14:54:30 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 2, 2009 15:16:55 GMT
Bet some of you cable disbelievers are still using some interconnects that came free with a Hitachi cassette deck back in 1973. I actually make all my own interconnects out of Evolution Pro OFC cable and am currently terminating them with NEUTRIK PROFI NF2C-B/2 plugs.... not claiming there's anything "special" about these interconnects but they are well made and use good quality parts..... oh, they're relatively "cheap" too |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 15:54:02 GMT
I've got some pretty cables from Van de Hull and a very bright green one which I can't remember the name of. I also have Monsters so I suppose I succumbed in the interconnect area. (To an extent) Ian What are you experiences of the higher end cables Ian? I could hear effects of interconnects. Nothing obvious on headphone cable - that just left me feeling robbed. To be honest though, it's subtle. On the silly priced gear that I was lent, it was actually quite obvious. (along with speaker cables) I think that more could be changed by altering stuff ahead of the interconnect though. For instance, one CD player that I found difficult to get on with was the Cyrus 'breed'. Glassy and very forward. Changing the player had more effect imo than the cable. With speakers it's more dramatic, so playing around with cables is expensive for small tweaks in sound which I don't think are always for the best either. It's probably better to get the 'right' gear in the first place rather than be forever playing with pieces of wire and plugs since it is subtle to say the least. There may be small changes (I felt, in timbre or tone) but not sure about more revealing and 'spacious' descriptions. The spaciousness may be the result of the slight tweaking of timbre. (Now someone is going to tell me how obvious it was when they changed to multi multi fatboy power slammers wire) Ian |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 16:30:36 GMT
There used to be a rough rule of thumb for cables as used by retaliers and some of the press, way back when. Which was, don't spend more than 10% of your main equipments value on them. I think this was good to stop lunatics! Which makes me think what the hell happened with headphones, spending equal to or more than their value I do have favourite interconnects for my system (and quite a few others ), Nordost Blue Heavens, they nudge the sound in the right direction for me. I've played with many others that were either "Too Good" for the system they were tried on, incompatible or just plain s-h-1-t, depending on your point of view. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 18:01:45 GMT
There used to be a rough rule of thumb for cables as used by retaliers and some of the press, way back when. Which was, don't spend more than 10% of your main equipments value on them. I think this was good to stop lunatics! Which makes me think what the hell happened with headphones, spending equal to or more than their value I do have favourite interconnects for my system (and quite a few others ), Nordost Blue Heavens, they nudge the sound in the right direction for me. I've played with many others that were either "Too Good" for the system they were tried on, incompatible or just plain s-h-1-t, depending on your point of view. I suppose the rule of thumb idea stops the 'crazy gang' perhaps. Then again, it just isn't worth worrying about cable if you're using your standard cheapo supposed 'hi fi'. However, a lot of listeners still go ahead with cable tweaking on the end of a budget system. What surprises me is how many people I know who proudly demonstrate their nice little NAD set up with cables costing as much as the NAD amp itself. This is also because of magazines telling everyone how great NAD is. Then the magazines say how great Monster Huge Terrific cable is and so people put the two together and 'hear' audio Nirvana. The price of it put together is what makes them hear it 'cos I don't. Also, for the price of an amp and expensive cables, some of the guys I know could have bought a better amp and got a far better result for their money. This also happens with Headphone people. Crunched MP3's being the main source of music, being put into Senn HD650. (Then complaining about a so called 'veil') Or even a Grado 325i and complain of harshness. I'm guilty of MP3's (at least at 320 though or lossless) but I just listen for what it is and don't get all hi fi about it and complain about the quality of the headphone!! With the 'Headphone cable' idea (Which I admit was slightly tongue in cheek from the start 'cos I ain't as stoopid as I make out, (I'm a really good actor!!) I think that the front end has to be good before anything can possibly be noticed and even then, in my case it was so minimal (if at all) that I couldn't really be bothered to stick with it. The other thing I have a real problem with is 'sound stage'. With speakers, I get it plain in the face - scarily so. With headphones ......... Nada. I find it difficult to understand how anyone hears soundstage on headphones. The 'impression' of the room is there but not forward/backward placing for me. Someone needs to teach me how to do that 'cos I just don't get it. So when I hear that cables introduce a better 'soundstage' I start thinking snakes and oils and sexy women pictures from that pervy guy in Florida. (I like him) Now for a nice low bit mp3 going through a pocket amp2 into my SennHD650 and snake cable. A gin and tonic = audio nivana. Does anyone else notice distortion in Sennheiser headphones? (Joke!!!!!!) Ian |
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