Energy-Hogging HDTVs

[rickcr42]

California being what they are: Human haters,lovers of all things NON human and why they not only have the most unfriendly to people laws in my entire nation which surprise surprise has also produced a state on the verge (past it actually,all smoke and mirrors) of total finacial collapse.No state services,workers or payouts PERIOD and all because those unhappy wingnuts are always looking for the "next new thing" they can pass into law that will piss off another group of folks with the eventual end game here being there will either be no one left to piss off (moved away) or the only ones left will be the wing nuts who I guess will eventually either move away also so they can aggravate "normal" folks somewhere else OR commit suicide there being no one left to fk with thus no FUN !


So anyway:




www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/03/california-tv/

now I personally have zero need for a Flat screen TV to replace my current 37 inch CRT (i'll get to that ) plus I don't live in that whack job state but the reason I bring these things up isbecause of the all too true "as California goes so does the rest of the nation eventually" so keeping an eye on them is just smart if you don't want some very unpleasant surprises down the road because the model of first CA f+cks it up then passes a tax increase to f+ck it up some more in the name of "fixing" it states have found that if you wrap that law up in the right PC Axioms,axioms drummed into our youth daily in school,then add to the fact that NO dissenting voice (non PC,get with the fkn program jerky) EVER gets heard the same old con job of things getting worse while you are TOLD they are better and all the while YOUR wallet gets lighter while anothers gets heavier and you were NEVER EVEN OFFERED A CHOICE !

that is a "Dictatorship" folks,not a democracy (look up the definitions of both,this is real simple sh*T)

So while this BOTHERS me it does not EFFECT me and here is why :


Was doing the should I upgrade and be like everyone else I know or keep what I have and continue to take the ridicule of being either old fashioned (GUILTY !) or cheap (GUILTY !) or,and this one amazes me when brought up the other party OBVIOUSLY not knowing squat about me "don't get the new technology rick ?"

So I wanted a definitive IS THIS FOR ME answer and with that borrowed a 42 inch LCD Flat screen TV which I set up alongside my 37inch CRT (but having a 16:9 Perspective setting).

As a control I used my Blue Ray Player to output the signal :

A-HDMI @ 1028 DPI
B-RGB/Componant Video fpr the CRT which has an RGB in of 780 DPI

and all discs were upsampled DVDs or Blue Rays,just to be fair


With the system set up I began my "non-scientific but real world use" eval and it was surprising to say the least.

With the normal "U-Shaped" seating array and with the furthest point being around 11 feet the CRT blew the balls of the HD screen !
I expected it to be close due to the distance,with the CRT winning on blacks/whites and image intensity but the obvious diffrences I was not ready for.

But as I moved closer ? Moved the "far" chair in closer or moved to another spot in the "U" each move itself being closer things changed and the extra "lines" discerned but the blacks/black contrasts were still better on the CRT based TV by far.


So it seems as screen size gets larger and/or you sit closer you get all those "extra" lines but in many situations it is a waste of loot unless you are upgrading for the wrong reasons (to impress someone else).

As I see it,the cost outlay (not to mention systemic hassle when mounting surfaces and cabling must all be changed,another "cost" to consider as being part of the overall upgrade cost) must produce a result that is not only BETTER but that by fair margin and hat is just not the case in my experience ad copy and salesmanship aside.Instead it has become another "must have" if you hope to entertain because if you don't ?

Like with me,wise cracks (good natured and comments on how some need to keep up with the times even if that means taking a step back as sadly has been the case with most advances in AV from my perspective and exerience

Rick out

[Deleted]

Rick
Let's face it. Manufacturers can churn out LCD TVs like sausages, in the main using panels from a select small group of manufacturers . I don't doubt that if they were to make a CRT High Definition TV ( yes, I know it would be very hard) it would easily blow LCD out of the water.
You can view a CRT from a distance,and way to one side of the TV and still see it perfectly clearly.
I continue to use my old JVC 28" TV with a HD capable STB,(3rd box!) and it still delivers a very watchable non fatigueing picture.
Alex

[cyteen]

You could go the other way and just get rid of the TV completely. Then when you get comments about 'getting technology' you can use the line 'oh TV, wasn't that something they had in the 1900's'. TV is so last century.

[andy]

The only problem is trying to buy a new crt tv. My old 28" went very wrong, turned out cheeper to get a LCD.
watching a dvd or bluray and the picture is great but trying to watch normal tv sucks

[PinkFloyd]

I bought one of these LCD things for the bedroom and the picture quality is dire compared to a CRT telly, especially close up where everything looks blotchy, it's ok when you sit back from it a bit though and acceptable for bedroom use

[rickcr42]

Another one of thos big scams we get hit with every decade or so where they take away what you have,replace it with something inferior then TELL YOU that the replacement is miles and miles ahead of what you had.

Oh yeah bubba ?

Well why then if you are so secure in the superiority do you not have FAIR in store demos to prove the point ?

For instance,placing a 40 to 50 inch flat screen alongside a POS 20 inch CRT is not a fair test but placing that same flat sreen alongside a 47 inch CRT monitor with a 16:9 perspective IS and would become even more valuable in making a decision if they actually had some damn ROOM to back away from the screen (the old you are so close you can SEE every line but back way ?) with markings on the floor at 5ft,10ft,15ft,20ft.........

They willnever do this "in store" because it will blow the sales pitch right out of the water when as you actually get to a "normal" viewing distance the weaknesses of the flat screen become obvious while the strengths also obvious which is

At normal distances you better go for the BIGGEST screen size in the store if want want to actually see any definition upgrade,or plan on moving your seating closer to the scren itself.

Me ?

Close to 800 lines CRT with RGB video is all I can see needing which means I save a fortune on the HDMI connections because I truly have zero need for them when you consider my audio feed is all analog

[cosmopragma]

I dunno.
When I looked for a new TV I wasn't satisfied with the quality of LCD but the Plasma TV I ended with is great.The picture quality is overall as good as the quality of my former CRT that was smaller and more expansive when new.
You have to feed such huge monitors with a quality signal though for great results.The receiver has to be of good quality (lots of low budget crap out there), and the format has to be right. Analogue cable is (often) inferior, DVB-T is utter crap, normal digital cable (DVB-C) is good, digital satellite signals (DVB-S) are even better and cheaper, and DVD or even Blu-ray discs are beyond any doubt.
For high-end results you have to fine tune your Plasma TV .
The factory settings are for the average monitor and the means to fine tune it (e.g. custom colour lookup tables for very natural colours) aren't provided by the manufacturers to the consumer but you can easily get the codes for access to the inner programs of your TV at video related forums.
A misaligned modern huge flat TV set performs worse than an old mediocre CRT (except that it's huge), but done right it can be great.
Somewhat similar to quality audio rigs.It doesn't necessarily have to be very expensive to get good quality, but walking into a chain store style shop and obtaining what's cheap and what a clueless seller recommends often won't get you anywhere near good quality.

Analogue CRTs did have a few decades to mature and in the end almost all CRT TVs on the market were quite good..
The new technologies are still in their infancy and there's still lots of crappy gear out there, and lots of consumers want huge and cheap and don't care that much for quality.

[Deleted]

cosmopragma
The new LED backlit LCD TVs are reported to have far more accurate colour reproduction, and are getting very good reports. My son told me that he saw one in action at a local retail outlet, and was blown away by the reproduction. Properly implemented LED lighting should also be far less current consuming. I note also that the state of California is introducing tough new legislation to make large TVs far more energy efficient.
SandyK

[cosmopragma]

Nov 23, 2009 2:26:42 GMT @sandyk said:

cosmopragma
The new LED backlit LCD TVs are reported to have far more accurate colour reproduction, and are getting very good reports.

Two years ago quality wise LCD was not competitive but fast progress has to be expected.
Due to its less fragile nature the LCD technology has already more than 80% market share.Plasma TVs are extremely fragile, not shock resistant at all, and they have to be transported upright.Lay a Plasma TV down and chances are great it's broken.
No way to transport a Plasma TV via a parcel service, it won't survive, and therefore the technology will vanish when the LCD technology catches up quality wise.

I note also that the state of California is introducing tough new legislation to make large TVs far more energy efficient

Yes, and tomorrow those arses will outlaw class A amps and enforce switching PSUs.
Who cares for sound quality?Those ideology driven bureaucrats certainly do not.
We do have such blunders in Europe as well.
Our Eurocrats just have outlawed traditional light bulbs due to energy efficiency reasons and in a few years most halogen lamps that do emit attractive warm light will be illegal as well.The latter are more efficient than traditional light bulbs but not efficient enough.
In the future we have to live with cold ultra efficient light.Homes like factories.
Sales of those soon to be illegal technologies are rising.Lots of people are stocking up for the rest of their lifetime.

[Deleted]

Our Eurocrats just have outlawed traditional light bulbs due to energy efficiency reasons

Cosmopragma
We have had to live with that for a while now. In my bathroom, we have a cluster with 2 heating lamps and a central light globe. Even with a 90W Energy Saver lamp fitted, the grandchildren still often feel the need in hot weather to turn the damn heater lamps on to get more lighting !
TBH, despite all the energy saving globes, I haven't noticed any reduction in the KWH's used !, The savings are dwarfed by the big items such as Fridges, big TVs, electric stoves, electric hot water heating,PCs etc.
Alex

[rickcr42]

The savings are dwarfed by the big items such as Fridges, big TVs, electric stoves, electric hot water heating,PCs etc.
Alex

Does no one find it ironic that at the very same time they want to outlaw our incandescent "energy hogging light bulbs with WAY inferior in the actual human friendly lighting scale front (I find even the "soft glo" or special color bulbs to be quite harsh when bright enough to read by and very much an eye strain when not) and that globally because of the handful of actual bulb manufacturers having paid the right organizations off to get their product sold as tTHE ONLY CHOICE) while at the same time having no dog in the energy efficient and possibly just as good in the viewing CRT vs. EXTREMELY high energy burning ,maybe better in some respects,maybe not,Flat Screen HDTV debate which has the real potential of dwarfing light bulb accumulative energy use in the next decade ?

Proves one thing to me-all about the money,not the Planet"


Back to the quality isues-


You can twiddle and tweal all you want and yes you may actually improve on the perfomance to YOUR test but that does not make the HD set better,just better than it was wbefore it came out of the box.

There are many many many web sites that have done the extensive testing and evals,granted they mostly test like technology head head though sometime they do all (all but the CRT that is) so you need to not only know what the specs MEAN but what they mean in the home,that is where it gets tricky.

once you do that,go back and read the results from the same sights of two,three,four and five years ago then compare the RELEVANT facts and you may get a better window into what is going on and what is no just hype but in some cases outright deception-on both sides

Problem is,if you find the above point about energy use to be ironic an if you accept the possibility that in an actual home you must either purchase a VERY LARGE flat screen size or sit closer or the "extra" lines you payed for will be irrelevant (and this "fact" has been back up by both the science and the real worl dusers who don;t have and agenda which translated means-won't lie to you to
'prove" the non-provable what then ?

Not like the CRT's are being made anymore o it means leftover stock or used and if there is one thing you NEVER buy "used" it is anything with a screen because you KNOW it will not last long