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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2009 23:42:39 GMT
Alex, Faudrei & Mike,
Using my modest equipment I have been experimenting with a few CDs ripped in using iTunes at lossless res., .wav via WMP and ripped to HDD vs straight to USB pen. (no 24/96 going on here, just straight from disc)
I found VERY clear differences! .WMP wav is definitely superior to iTunes lossless. This is not subtle, best comparing by listening to .wav first then going back to iTunes, which sounds dull and retracted in comparison.
The recording (and subsequent playback) to the USB pen has a far more subtle improvement over the HDD, in the same vein as the above, but there.
I'm not sure what vaildity this has compared to methods/equipment used by those further down the PC music road but is a very clear result for my immediate usage.
So Mike, based on my findings I'd have to say forget iTunes and use .wav insted!
Chris
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Nov 2, 2009 0:03:45 GMT
Using my modest equipment I have been experimenting with a few CDs ripped in using iTunes at lossless res., .wav via WMP and ripped to HDD vs straight to USB pen. (no 24/96 going on here, just straight from disc) I found VERY clear differences! .WMP wav is definitely superior to iTunes lossless. This is not subtle, best comparing by listening to .wav first then going back to iTunes, which sounds dull and retracted in comparison. Chris, I think you compared two different rippers and two different players. For comparison to be fair - use one ripper and one player. For example: rip with iTunes to alac, then again with iTunes to wav. Compare within iTunes (or within WMP). Or: rip within WMP to wav, use iTunes or something else to produce alac from ripped wav. Compare again both files within same player (iTunes or WMP). See if you can hear changes then. Although it may seem impossible , Alex and I agree on one thing: Exact Audio Copy for ripping purposes. BTW, you didn't rip a HDCD by chance, did you?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 0:24:42 GMT
It has been reported by many that iTunes does not perform as well out of a PC as it does out of a Mac. I have not been able to do a side by side comparison but it makes sense that Apple would make their own sound better. Miguel Dream on !!! Why the hell would they do something so bloody stupid, when they desperately want to increase their market share, and win converts to their own platform ? Methinks that you have been spending too much time down at Miami Beach ! Were there by chance, lots of Bikini Babes in the same dream too ? Alex P.S. Yes, I am envious of what you can see! I would die with a leer on my face.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 20:55:32 GMT
Alex, Faudrei & Mike, Using my modest equipment I have been experimenting with a few CDs ripped in using iTunes at lossless res., .wav via WMP and ripped to HDD vs straight to USB pen. (no 24/96 going on here, just straight from disc) I found VERY clear differences! .WMP wav is definitely superior to iTunes lossless. This is not subtle, best comparing by listening to .wav first then going back to iTunes, which sounds dull and retracted in comparison. The recording (and subsequent playback) to the USB pen has a far more subtle improvement over the HDD, in the same vein as the above, but there. I'm not sure what vaildity this has compared to methods/equipment used by those further down the PC music road but is a very clear result for my immediate usage. So Mike, based on my findings I'd have to say forget iTunes and use .wav insted! Chris Chris You will never convince FauDrei, no matter what you do. This week, I have already had visits from 2 of our normal little listening and equipment comparison group. They are both ex workmates who are 20 years younger than me, and have some pretty decent DIY gear. David, The 1st visitor, was so impressed with the differences he heard, especially with the original .flac files after reconversion to .wav and being saved directly to the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB pen, that he intended purchasing a 64GB version of the Corsair. However, his plans came unstuck when he noticed a deterioration in SQ from the Benchmark USB DAC, when there were other USB peripherals connected after testing when he got home. He will now be buying an expensive small SSD, which his laptop has provision for. Another friend visited me last night (Geoff,who works in Networking etc.) and I let him take charge of the PC,and compare whatever tracks he liked best from previous visits. Geoff was amazed at the difference between the original saved .wav files from the June 2008 downloaded 24/96 .flac Claire Martin album , in comparison with the same .flac files converted to .wav and saved directly to the new USB pen. He also remarked about hearing many things from various other recordings that he had never noticed previously,including a word in one recording that he had not noticed before. Before he left, he emailed himself the details of an advertisement in a new PC magazine, where the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT is available at a good price, and the supplier is near where he works. Alex
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Nov 3, 2009 22:02:52 GMT
...just a remark I also use fast (>= 30MB/s) flash USB drives and would love to put an Intel X25-M SSD in my ThinkPad (but it is still too much $ and little Gbs for me). Just to let you know that I am not against new technologies and progress... I wanted to point out that, when you use DAC and music storage (USB HDD, USB flash disk...) on the same USB bus it happens something like this (simplified): - music data goes from USB music storage to computer memory/CPU
- music data is sent from memory/CPU to USB DAC/USB SPDIF converter
All good and transparent. The only problem here is that when data goes TO memory/CPU it can not go FROM memory/CPU and vice versa (because USB bus is locked to one transfer). This further means double source to target latency time. Finally this implies that sourcing music from internal HDD would have lower latency because we will be using two busses (SATA/IDE bus and USB bus) in the same time. Lower latency means less glitches in your music. Of course, both kind of transfers are transparent and in nowadays HW and OSes you can have >100 such music transfers in a single second while editing your work documents and surfing the net (without your boss seeing you), so no problems with that whatsoever... Only, if there would be problems - we would experience them with USB to USB transfers first.
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Nov 3, 2009 22:09:01 GMT
...which reminds me... A usable tool for you guys that can test the "Deffered Procedure Calls (DPCs)", or in a human language - a tool that will tell you if your computer is capable of real time audio and video. If your computer latencies are under 500 μs while playing music - you are OK.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 9:37:46 GMT
...which reminds me... A usable tool for you guys that can test the "Deffered Procedure Calls (DPCs)", or in a human language - a tool that will tell you if your computer is capable of real time audio and video. If your computer latencies are under 500 μs while playing music - you are OK. Faudrei Does it work with Macs too ? ;D I hope you aren't suggesting that everybody who claims to hear these diffeerences, have crappy Windows machines, because I know a few people who can hear the same differences with their Macs ! Alex
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Nov 4, 2009 17:26:46 GMT
Of course not, Alex...
It is just a handy tool that shows you if your setup may have problems with realtime playback, and if it does it helps you pinpoint the issue.
Beside, Mac or PC - from computer science perspective have the same von Neumann architecture and have the same vulnerabilities. The differences are only in implementation (and interface design).
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 4, 2009 20:34:27 GMT
Can we take all this non NG-27 conversation "outside" please folks? 3M damping tape and the benefits of Mac V computer belong in a seperate thread
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 22:06:58 GMT
Chris, I think you compared two different rippers and two different players. My intention was to compare two "inhouse" methods, apple lossless vs .wav. Wav was a clear winner done this way. I then used .wav to compare the HDD against a usb pen drive, the pen drive just pipped the HDD. I know what you were saying but it was not the test I intended to do. keeping it simple for now, after all the hardware is not exactly leading edge I've only had a very quick skim through the EAC programme and didn't quite "geddit", I'll have to look closer when I get a chance. Mike, Do you think a higher voltage PSU on the 27 would be beneficial?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2009 0:17:17 GMT
OK, I couldn't resist, as Mike, very kindly sent me a Pinkie with a white Minstrel white switch, I had to try a white one on the 27 too... Yeah, not so good eh. Changed it for a Marshall jobby... In action... The original knob was just a bit naff looking.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2009 0:26:58 GMT
Chris I agree with you. The white on/off on the Little Pinkie does look rather nice though, doesn't it ? Alex
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 18:40:44 GMT
Mike, NUDGE Did you ever try a higher voltage psu for the NG27? It's marked for up to 18v. With the benefits found for the AUNE, I thought it may be worthwhile/safe to try?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 24, 2009 21:24:13 GMT
Mike, NUDGE Did you ever try a higher voltage psu for the NG27? It's marked for up to 18v. With the benefits found for the AUNE, I thought it may be worthwhile/safe to try? Hi Chris, I'm bogged down with work at the moment and haven't had the time to experiment with any of my equipment (too busy building stuff for others ) 18V will be fine with the NG-27..... one of the Maplin PSU kits would be ideal rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=m&action=display&thread=4727&page=1 I'll order one and send it over if you like?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 1:21:36 GMT
I popped in the extra capacitance that Mike showed earlier in this thread. Once warmed up I could hear a little improvement to the midrange; piano and acoustic guitar displaying a little resonance that was not there before, bass a little tidier too.
Just because I had one, I tried a transformer style wall wart, of the same rating, in place of the SMPS offering. Placebo or real, not completely sure yet, but could swear the former brought a snadge more solidity and openness.
Mike, try a pinkie again, I reckon it's worth it. Maybe up the voltage as well, I'm yet to try that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2009 0:22:38 GMT
I've just popped a Sunv2 inti my NG27, powered up, no music playing. DC readings on the H'phone socket are; R= 49 mvdc L = 61 mvdc
compared to the 2134; R = 0.2 mvdc L = 1.2 mvdc
To continue or not continue, that is the question?
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 22, 2009 0:39:40 GMT
Chris
I have run the Suns with just under 50 mvdc offset with no problems bar a small audible click when plugging or unplugging the headphones. Have you got a spare pair of cheapish test headphones to try rather than risk your main set just in case?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2009 0:41:22 GMT
I've just popped a Sunv2 inti my NG27, powered up, no music playing. DC readings on the H'phone socket are; R= 49 mvdc L = 61 mvdc compared to the 2134; R = 0.2 mvdc L = 1.2 mvdc To continue or not continue, that is the question? Chris Does the amp have series output resistors ? Even with 32 ohm headphones that is still only 1.5mA , so I would say see what happens . You could always temporarily fit 33 ohm resistors across the output, as a typical worst case,and play music while making sure the DC reading across the resistors didn't go much higher when the music is paused. I think you may be worrying needlessly, although the readings are much higher than I would prefer. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2009 0:43:34 GMT
Dave,
Yep, sure have. Thanks for that, I'll put some 'phones on the sacrificial slab, here goes!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 22, 2009 0:46:20 GMT
Hi Chris, The readings will NOT damage your headphones (don't worry!). Go ahead and listen (and forget the readings, they are well within "acceptable" range)..... what does it SOUND like?? That's the main thing here......... Sorry, I didn't get round to trying the Sun in my NG27 today, as promised, I will definitely do it tomorrow..... that's me on holiday for a few days now
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 22, 2009 0:47:10 GMT
Dave, Yep, sure have. Thanks for that, I'll put some 'phones on the sacrificial slab, here goes! Wot! no magic smoke?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 22, 2009 0:55:19 GMT
Come on! stick it in you nancy boy I'm waiting to hear how it went before I go to bed ;D Seriously man, shove it in the hole.......
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 22, 2009 0:56:27 GMT
Hurry up..... shove it in ;D
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 22, 2009 0:58:14 GMT
<whistling> Have you slammed the big boy home yet? </whistling>
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 22, 2009 0:58:47 GMT
Push push in the bush......
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