elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 23, 2010 0:03:25 GMT
Having owned the K701 for over 4 years and tried both the K601 and the K701 I say the best sounding is the ... K501 and IMO by a wide margin. It is hard to convey in words why, but all it would take is a listen side by side and you will hear why. BTW, the K501 is even more demanding of an amp than the K701/702/601 are. We have a lot of information about K701/K702 on the forum. And now we have also more and more K501 (K500/K401/K400/K301 etc.?) information here. But what about the K601? They are rather cheap compared to the K701/K702 and still available new.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2010 0:21:06 GMT
Alex I bought the attenuated interconnect because i did not like that in yer face sound also the output voltage of my arcam cd player is 2.2 vrms into 220mv input of the amp, now i have more range on the volume knob instead of 9 or 10 oclock and ending up with a Tony curtis haircut due to the loudness. The minus 14db does not degrade the sound it makes it a hell of a lot more musical and dynamic plus i dont get fatigued anymore, i can hear subtlety instead of a boomy wall of sound. I have at adh ad700,s which are 32ohm and i have the volume on the xcan v2 inbetween 9 and 12oclock but when i plug the k501,s in the volume is 12 to 3oclock, i have heard these are a bugger to drive but i thought it was down to the 120ohm impedence and the difficulty to drive issue as well. If i turn the v2 vol up full they become too loud so i think the v2 is good enough to drive them ok, someone else might dissagree. paddy Paddy Installing an additional attenuator in line can not improve the SQ as you have described. If the amplifier needs far less than the available signal voltage, it is far better to reduce the gain of the amplifier, if it is excessive. The V2 is quite capable of having it's gain reduced very easily, just by changing a few resistor values. Mike posted this info for the V2 some time back . Alex www.rock-grotto.co.uk/X-canv2-gain-adjustment.html
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 23, 2010 1:27:20 GMT
Alex The problem lies with the cd medium itself, i think the output voltage of the cd player (2.2volts) to the amp input sensitivity (220mv) is way too high, i think the -14db just helps it sound and behave like it should. We dont have this overload problem with turntables or cassette decks as they have a lower output voltage plus i dont belive in a wide overload margin as they say. I took this route as i dont know of any other way to solve the problem. paddy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2010 1:43:09 GMT
Alex The problem lies with the cd medium itself, i think the output voltage of the cd player (2.2volts) to the amp input sensitivity (220mv) is way too high, i think the -14db just helps it sound and behave like it should. We dont have this overload problem with turntables or cassette decks as they have a lower output voltage plus i dont belive in a wide overload margin as they say. I took this route as i dont know of any other way to solve the problem. paddy Paddy The problem isn't with the output level from the CD medium, it's the very high gain of the X Can V2. Virtually all modern equipment is designed to accomodate this level without any problems. Why don't you try the mod ? Mike and quite a few others have done this, and it not only reduces the gain of the V2, it gives a small improvement in SQ, as well as a more realistic volume setting. Alex P.S. Are you also using a TT or Cassette Deck with your V2 ? I researched Cassette Deck output levels, and most appear to be a minimum of 500mV, and some have a much higher output level.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 23, 2010 13:18:39 GMT
I've washed the pads of my "new" K401's thoroughly this weekend.
The clothy pads of the K400/401/500/501's are IMO not a bad thing. Equal or at least almost as comfortable as velour pads, but they are also very strong.
The pads of those K401's have been used for years and it's clearly visible that they're old. But they're still very usable after washing.
I had to wash them three times with different washing agents before they lost their smell. Now they are in a condition that is absolutely no problem for using (also regarding sanitation).
I'm had only a few minutes for listening with them, but although I find the K501 (and K702, HD650) clearly better than the K401, I'm sure that I've bought another interesting headphone.
One of the first impressions is that they are rather bass heavy. There's also something that I don't like exactly, but I can't say at the moment what it really is.
I already think that it's save to say that they are good 'phones as long as you get them cheap. I'm absolutely sure that they are NOT better than the K501/K702/HD650, but they are very interesting. While I'd say that the K501's are sounding "natural", I can't say the same for the K401's. There's sometimes an artificial touch.
They are NOT laid-back, it's just in front of you. In-head-localization is clearly noticeable, maybe because the pads are flater than in new condition.
I guess my K401's have already seen a lot of use with the original owner and they're probably more than just burned-in. I think they're candidates for modding because the they are not in perfect condition anymore.
The bass is just a bit too pronounced, maybe pads from other AKG's can help with this.
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 23, 2010 20:58:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2010 22:05:01 GMT
Hi Paddy What you are saying now makes a lot more sense. The integrated amp was obviously being overdriven into clipping. Alex
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 23, 2010 22:49:58 GMT
I'm not really sure if this makes sense, but I must admit that I like the hard to drive nature of the K501's. They are insensitive, but in a good way. They have a touch of HD650/600/580's. They are rather forgiving (much more than the K702/701's). IMO that's a good thing. Sometimes I have the impression that my K702's let me hear thing that I don't want to hear. That's one of the biggest advantage of the K501's: They are much more forgiving that the K702/701's. And they are not coloured in the treble. It's not always a good thing to have low-impedance 'phones. I think those hard to drive beasts have also they advantages, especially that they are more forgiving if the source/amp setup isn't optimal. I've noticed something similar with the HD650 and K702: While I hear quite a difference between the FCA202 and the UCA222 when used with the K702's, I can't hear as much difference between both audio interfaces if I use them with the HD650's. I don't miss the the higher resolution of the FCA202 with the HD650's. I can even use the analog out of my Macs to feed an amp together with the HD650's. They smooth out a lot.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 24, 2010 0:02:30 GMT
I did a search for new K501's inside Switzerland. Suprise: I can still find some, but the costs are higher than in UK. They are in the price class of the K601 here and if you add shipping and custom taxes to an UK offer then I'd end up will almost the same amount of money spent. No need to go outside Switzerland to get some new K501's. I've searched with help of this website: www.toppreise.ch/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2010 14:17:04 GMT
K501 vs K601 vs HD650. K601 has lows rolled off from 20Hz (about -3dB) and K501 from about 35 Hz (about -3dB) acc to graphs. Highs are similar in amount though K601 seems to be slightly 'better' smoother? and reaching slightly further then K501. K501 is a bit light on the deep bass about 10dB down @ 20Hz (that is half the amount in sonic experience) Around 32 Hz is the lowest you get in most music (unless there is a huge organ playing it's lowest note which you cannot 'hear' but can only 'feel' Sorry no graphs available of K701 for comparison from the same site.. HD650 given as a comparison instead. Notice the 5dB 'hump' centered at 100Hz... it's what gives the HD650 it's 'warm' and more 'bodied' signature. K501 and K601 are very flat indeed, not everybodies thing though.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 24, 2010 16:48:13 GMT
If I understand the graphs correctly, then the K601 isn't that far away from the K501?
I don't have a K601 and can't give comments about it, but I've always wondered that the K601 isn't mentioned as much as the K702/K701 or K501/500.
The K501's are probably the most neutral 'phones in my armory, but not in the sense of "boring". Deep bass isn't really a strength of the K501's, but I don't miss anything – even with electronic sound that has a lot of bass.
I still prefer my HD650's or K702's for some music, but the K501's is overall very impressive.
My K501's are still almost new and I have used them only a few days. I'm very curious how my taste (of preferred 'phones) will change in the next few months.
I had already a lot of changes in taste during the last few months and I'm at a point where I can say that only one "perfect" 'phone would be boring. I really like the alternation with different 'phones. I can't live with only one model.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Aug 24, 2010 21:07:27 GMT
After comparing the K501/K601/K701 I found the K601 un-inspiring. They did not do anything poor nor great.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 24, 2010 21:52:47 GMT
After comparing the K501/K601/K701 I found the K601 un-inspiring. They did not do anything poor nor great. Are the K601's simply too unobtrusive?
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 29, 2010 10:23:05 GMT
I have had the k501 plugged into a tuner now for 1 week with music playing 24/7, and the SQ is a lot better than when they were new, they now sound more mellow and smoother with a week of burn in, i will leave them plugged into the tuner for about 5 weeks and hopefully they will be 100% burned in by then. I am using a modded xcan v2 with tesla gold pin valves and the sound is warm and not boring or fatiguing and i have not yawned once while listening to them, is the modded xcan v2 a good amp for the 501,s or would ss amps be better like the solo miguel recomended. I have read somewhere valves are good for making these sing. paddy
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 29, 2010 12:44:23 GMT
I can't say how "new" my K501's really are, they had at least a few hours but are otherwise absolutely mint. I'm using them very often at the moment and they're also still plugged-in while I don't use them. I liked them from the beginning although I'm sure they're still changing somewhat.
I like the K501's with the Neco Mosfet V.2 and the PreSonus HP4. The Mosfet is slightly better but the HP4 is very close regarding SQ. I still need to test the K501's with my Neco Portable V2, but I'm almost sure the Portable is able to drive them.
I didn't test my K501's with my tube amps until now. I have only MF tube amps and all are unmodded. Probably not fair to compare them directly to the Neco's or the the HP4.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Aug 29, 2010 13:38:45 GMT
Do try the K501 with the X-Can, you will be ...
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 29, 2010 20:25:09 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2010 20:34:24 GMT
Do try the K501 with the X-Can, you will be ... Was my favourite combo a few years ago Lovely headphones....
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 29, 2010 21:19:17 GMT
Mike I am impressed with the modded xcan v2 and k501 combo and will be even more so when the headphones burn in, is there a hf amp that will bring out the magic in these headphones, miguel recomends a slee solo. The xcan does the 501,s more justice than the audio technic ad700,s, dont know if thats something to do with impedence issues or the xcan is better with higher impedence phones or the 501,s are better with valves (still like the ad700,s though). paddy
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Aug 29, 2010 21:26:39 GMT
I like my X-Cans (unmodded V2+V3) the most with my 300Ohms Senn's (I didn't test the K501's until now). The K702's don't sound good with both amps IMO (at least in their unmodded state and in comparison to my Neco's and the PreSonus HP4).
Maybe the higher impedance of the K501's is an advantage if used together with the X-Cans.
HD650 and HD580 are very forgiving 'phones and my first impression of the K501's is also that they are more forgiving than the K702's.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2010 22:19:02 GMT
Mike I am impressed with the modded xcan v2 and k501 combo and will be even more so when the headphones burn in, is there a hf amp that will bring out the magic in these headphones, miguel recomends a slee solo. IMO you will be throwing your money away going from a V2 to a Solo (with K-501). In fact, I would consider that combo as a major "downgrade". The V2 adds a bit of honey to the K-501... the Solo, IMO, will add vinegar. K-501 is inherently a neutral 'phone and needs a bit of garnish to bring the flavours out.... K-501 / Solo, IMO, is a recipe for those with a bland palate.... K-501 is neutral to the point of being pedestrian, it needs a full flavoured engine to truly blossom.... match it up with a screecher like the Solo and you are looking at a thin, bright type presentation (IMO). If you want to go down that route you can save a lot of money and pair the K-501 up with the likes of a C-Moy..... Again (IMO) there is something truly special about the V2 / K-501 synergy... a match made in heaven (IMO)..... introducing a Solo into the equation will (IMO) throw the balance into "painful" territory. Solo with HD-600? YES! Solo with K-501? NO!! (IMO!) Try it for yourself (Solo / K-501) I'd be interested to read your impressions..... to these old ears it's not a combo I'd recommend. Pinkie.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2010 22:22:56 GMT
I like my X-Cans (unmodded V2+V3) Christian.... seeing as you are a senior member here I think it time you get your V2 and V3 modded. If you can send both boards to me I will perform some Pink magic on them free of charge Mike.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Aug 29, 2010 22:51:45 GMT
I never got to hear it but from reading posts over the years the AKG K501 / Heed Can Amp combo was pretty special as well.
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 29, 2010 23:00:35 GMT
Thanks for the info Mike The xcan v2 has the panasonic upgrade kit with alps pot and jalco phono jack with tesla gold pin tubes. I now appreciate it better now with the 501,s because everything sounds effortless and flowing and very musical with no fatiguing sound whatsoever (so do the ad700,s as well) so i will keep the xcan v2 and sod the solo, i also read somewhere the heed canamp works well with these too but for now i am liking the sound of the xcan v2 and 501,s. My ad700,s are 32ohms and while the xcan v2 is ok with them i feel there is a better hf amp to run these excellent phones. paddy
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pjc68
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Post by pjc68 on Aug 29, 2010 23:04:20 GMT
I never got to hear it but from reading posts over the years the AKG K501 / Heed Can Amp combo was pretty special as well. Bloody hell nigel you must have posted that as i was typing the post after you paddy
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