Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 9, 2007 17:15:00 GMT
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 9, 2007 18:45:18 GMT
Blimey Wouldn't mind having a listen to them though
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toad
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Post by toad on Nov 9, 2007 20:18:21 GMT
I read somewhere that even at that price Sennheiser lose money on them.
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Post by dc on Nov 9, 2007 23:49:33 GMT
that be Australian dllars I think but the phones themselves go for about USD$9000 or so
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 10, 2007 1:57:22 GMT
I have had that rig in front of me. I refused to listen to it! why, because if I liked I would have had to have it and honestly there is no way in hell I would spend $30,000 on a headphone amp and headphone. At least not w/ my current salary.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 10, 2007 19:23:27 GMT
I have an interesting review of this kit from an old defunct Hi-Fi mag. I'll ask Mike if he can upload it. I've tried unsuccessfully.
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insanitybeard
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Post by insanitybeard on Nov 10, 2007 20:48:43 GMT
I've been interested in getting a listen to the Orpheus for years as well Nigel, as well as their cheaper sibling the HE60. My only experience of electrostatics to date has been a Stax 2020 (basic) setup and though the quality of sound and definition and complete lack of distortion was excellent, the lack of impact- i.e bass put me off buying a pair. I wondered whether any of the more expensive Stax systems might go any way to addressing this "problem" but on what I know and understand of electrostatics I guess probably not. I'd still like to hear the Orpheus, just to set my mind at rest. ;D
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Post by bizzel on Nov 11, 2007 16:38:14 GMT
I managed to get a detailed listen to the Baby O (HE60) at a Head-Fi meet last month. I don't know how much those things go for but, even without the amplification needed, I'm sure it's way out of my budget. I listened to them like this: iTunes > Cambridge Audio 740c > Stax Amp > HE60.
The first thing that strikes you is how balanced the sound is - there's the typical Sennheiser bass but completely free of bloat and the highs have a nice sparkle without a hint of sibilance. I had a good listen to some Hendrix (Night Bird Flying, Crosstown Traffic) and, in terms of jazz, Pat Metheny Group. Both were presented effortlessly - these cans are *fast* compared to their dynamic brethren and I could happily listen to rock with the baby o as if they were a pair of RS1s. If I'm honest, I was expecting the soundstage to be larger than it was but it was a little larger than the 650s at least. The typical Sennheiser presentation remains, that feeling of being a few rows back was always present but the seating in that row is reclining, heated, leather seats and I could sit there all evening.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Baby O is a very accomplished headphone but there's nothing that makes me feel "I have to have this!" like there was with the K1000, it's just a very refined sound. Overall, they do everything right but they lack the "wow" factor of some high-end headphones. I'd love to hear the HE90 based on what I've heard from the HE60, it'd only take me a few years worth of wages to get one.
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Nov 11, 2007 17:00:41 GMT
Back in '01 I went to the Stereophile "High end audio" show at the NY Hilton with my first stop (obviously) being the Headroom room.My wife was with me and it was her first real exposure to high end audio products so it was cool for me to take her around the various suites and show her just how serious this "hobby" can be. The headphones/amps display in the Hearrom section was extensive and we listened to just about every model but when the wife tried the Orpheus she said : "I like this one" Me-"no you don't" the ball and chain "yes.This is the one" El rickamundo "No.You REALLY don't like that one Suse" The persistant female"I KNOW what i like and this is the one dammit" so i tell it it goes for $30K and she says "you're right.I don't like this one.all of a sudden it sounds like crap' ;D funny thing is Headroom sold THREE of those puppies that day ! my take was yeah,sounded damn nice but not at that price..........there comes a point of diminishing returns and that was up there at #1 Moving along she decided she also like the Senn 600 and the ASL amp (model number escapes me presently) so I ended up cloning the amp and buying her the cans at a later date locally and she used the set all of maybe twice Cans are not for everyone no matter what they sound like with the future ex-wife (joke ) being exhibit A.
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 11, 2007 18:44:52 GMT
Going by the connections it seems it has a built in dac too
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Post by vpr5 on Nov 11, 2007 22:38:50 GMT
I was lucky enough at a Hi-Fi show some years ago to spend some time listening to the Orpheus system. Actually a friend an I paid several visits to that Sennheiser stand during the day and became on well enough terms with the rep at the end to be offered the set for a couple of thousand pounds discount (!).
Over perhaps three quarters of an hour we back to back compared the Orpheus to their lesser electrostatic system and then to several of their moving coil headphones, thought I can’t recall if this included the HD600s. We then went off around the show and tried various Grado models, and even something that looked like the old Jeklin Floats (which I think was a new version, but am not sure) before coming back again and again to spend time with that legendary headphone system. Stax unfortunately were not there.
Well the Orpheus amp and dac not only looked like something out of Flash Gordon or Things To Come with all that chrome and those (unique?) chrome valve covers. It also exuded an additional sense of opulence with a curved and polished wood edging strip, a silky smooth volume knob and an expensive Lemo circular multi-pin connector on each flank. It also pushed out quite a lot of heat, similar in amounts to perhaps my pair of Quad IIs.
The headphones themselves were remarkably (perfectly?) comfortable, light in weight and clamped to my head by just the right amount. Vaguely similar in external design to the HD600 they were perhaps slightly larger around the ears. The oval housings of the transducers appeared to be made out of or were trimmed with polished hardwood, and the cable while substantial, was actually highly flexible and I believe unique to this model.
Now (at last!) the sound of these headphones was quite simply (to our ears) embarrassingly far in advance of anything else we heard that day from headphones or from any loudspeaker. This included a rather daft looking pair of JM Lab’s Grand Utopias at £80K (Bah!) and I am afraid all of the then current Grado headphone line (including the RS1s). The Orpheus system seemed to us to have been quite obviously in an altogether different league. The sense of near infinite refinement, smoothness detail and simply ‘being there’ I will never forget. The ’budget’ (£1K?) Sennheiser electrostatic system sitting next to the Orpheus sounded by contrast a little crude and un-refined and there simply was no comparison. This effect was noted to varying amounts with the rest of the headphones auditioned on that rather memorable day. Bear in mind though I listen mostly to acoustic Jazz and Classical music through valved amped pair of ELS57s or LS3/5As so my SQ values might differ from yours.
I came away with an impulse bought pair of Grado SR125s (as they seemed to the best cost compromise of their range) and wondering if I could talk Sennheiser into supplying my employers an Orpheus system at trade price, and I acquire it through the staff purchase scheme…
A couple of years later I bought a Stax Lambda Nova Signature system as a poor man’s Orpheus. And while this system is impressive (good impact and bass once burnt in and warmed up for a couple of hours), has great detail and many good qualities I believe it is no Orpheus. But of course audio memory is highly unreliable, especially mine but those couple of hours with the Sennheiser legend were impressive.
Lately I have been using (while at the computer) some HD650s and one of Graham Slee’s 2007 Solos. And as these fairly sanely priced devices gradually burn themselves in, you know they are beginning to remind me of that Orpheus system. I have an Equinox cable on order, so perhaps that will get me even nearer.
Yes the Orpheus system was an insanely priced millionaires toy and a ‘legend in it’s own lifetime‘, but unlike many other such things (think of watches) they were perhaps almost worth the money.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 11, 2007 23:15:40 GMT
vpr5, on the HD600 I tried the many aftermarket cables including the Equinox. The two that IMO came on top were the Headphile Senn V2 in Black Silver and the Revelation Audio Cryo Silver.
Yes the Revelation Audio was the top sounding but at around $250 it is hard to buy when you can get a pair of used but in excellent shape HD600 fro about $180-$200. The Headphile Senn V2 in Black Silver is about $120 and it opens up the HD600, improves the top end, and helps remove the veil the HD600's are famous for.
Have you removed the foam in front of the drive? I did and the top end was also improved quite a bit. Since I was concerned for the drivers I used I took of my wife's new knee highs and stretched it over the driver enclosure, then I snapped the cushion. Finally I trimmed the excess and repeated the process on the other one. Try it, you will be surprised by the improvement.
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Post by vpr5 on Nov 12, 2007 0:40:06 GMT
I rather plumped for the Equinox and am actually buying it just to see if I can detect any differences at all (ageing ears etc). I was thinking of making up some of my own leads, but there again thought a known respected cable might be a good place to start. Respectful thanks for your suggestions though, and I might indeed go for those wires in due course. Lots to find out and learn here, early days eh?.
Yes I tried removing the foam about an hour after first plugging them in. But I soon replaced it because: 1) The increase in upper midd / treble seemed to change the overall balance a bit too much. It was different but I was not sure if it was more accurate. 2) I thought it probably a good idea to keep them standard as a known reference set of well regarded dynamic headphones.
Actually with time both the HD650s and the Solo seem to have opened out and changed to the extent that the overall balance seems now very natural and lifelike (and they still seem to be improving - or I am getting more used to them). The 650s don’t have the extreme HF detail that the Stax have, but there again they don’t have that certain coldness that the Stax seem to have either. Perhaps I might remove the foam again once the 650s are more run / burnt in, it might be a different story then. Oh and the foam sheet in front of my Stax drivers has disintegrated, so that might be affecting their sound in the wrong direction as well!
I read that someone thought the HD650s had been voiced to sound like a good pair of speakers, and this reminded me that some years ago I had seen HD600s being used at the Decca Recording Centre in London to check the integrity of classical recording edits. They used B&W 801 studio monitors in the edit suits, but when they came to see if they could hear any problems it was the HD600s that were used.
Sorry, getting rather off-topic here, did I say that the Orpheus sounded good?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 12, 2007 9:56:40 GMT
Removing the foam from the HD650's isn't my cup of tea, especially whilst using the Green Solo.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 12, 2007 10:13:07 GMT
My Solo & HD650 is currently sounding very good as well. I have a theory that the Senn pads reach a perfect moment in time, whilst they are flattening over a period of use, before they start to gradually sound worse. Bit of a bell curve from the moment you start using them.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 15, 2007 9:42:25 GMT
Here you go Nigel, I parked the review for you...... many thanks
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 15, 2007 10:26:43 GMT
Thank you, Mike. Managed to transfer those files in the end. lol
Pity about the background colour on the right hand side of the review, that's the way it is in article though.
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Post by dc on Nov 15, 2007 12:45:04 GMT
Nice article, even if the reviewer seems a bit biased towards Stax.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Nov 15, 2007 23:01:39 GMT
The review is from 1991, if I recall the AKG K1000 were available at the time. Sixteen years later & has anything surpassed these models?
I have some old AKG K1000 reviews from the same period, I'll dig them out.
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Post by merton on Nov 16, 2007 3:22:19 GMT
i can't understand why they don't make some k1000 type phones with bigger bass.
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Nov 16, 2007 22:51:09 GMT
Would mean an entire re-design which would negate the strengths which is almost loudspeaker-like imaging quality due to the open construction (front,back,away from the head) Bass "bloom" needs a resonant chamber of some type and is why sealed headphones typically have better bass than open cans (too the point of a damn headache many times ) which release as much energy outward as they do inward much as with a flat panel loudspeaker which BTW are also bass shy without some electronic (EQ),dynamic driver or other help. "Other" : ( caution ! X-Rated ! ) photo.net/photo/pcd3391/manipulated/speaker-5.jpg If there IS a way to retain the open sound characteristic and add some bass slam my thought is it would be to use passive radiators like in an earlier AKG headphone,the hybrid "electrostat-Dynamic" AKG K-340 BTW- True low bas is not and can not ever be achived in ANY headphone no matter what the specs say because bass if felt more than it is heard so when you "hear" low bass you are either A-fooling yourself.Your brain is filling in the fundamental note from the overtones you actually hear much as with a mini-monitor B-The is an artificial "hump" in the bass area centered in the 50-100hz area rather than a truly flat response curve,another trick used in minimonitors to have the illusion of low bass. Personally i'll take flat/nuetral with a natural rolloff over woolly bass any day though i realize that most prefer the opposite (bloated cans plus a "bas upper" EQ setting) having had only "recorded bass" as their benchmark of what bass should sound like (NOT !) rather than TRUE bass as it would be heard during a live performance with a good seating position. That True Bass is not just a whump whump whump sound but is played by an actual musical instrument so should sound as if that is the case.Only then can you pick out where one bass note/instrument ends and another begins as opposed to a single note rumble on the bottom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2007 23:29:36 GMT
Rick Couldn't have said it better ! Unfortunately, many people prefer that colouration over accuracy. Hence, "Contour" controls etc. WTF would the producer of the original recording know ? SandyK
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2007 1:11:26 GMT
I'm quite happy with the K701's so far, they are very quick and neutral, still going to give them another week constant run in, these do certainly sound more like stand mount speakers regarding bass. I like the headphones for late night listening, I'll never get rid of the speaker based rig
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Nov 17, 2007 1:53:48 GMT
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Jun 3, 2008 18:31:47 GMT
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