xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Aug 10, 2006 11:58:08 GMT
I got a quote direct from Solen for the larger caps, 0.47uF, 10uF and the 220uF whoppers. I asked them to quote me for enough to build 5 Live to Neutral filters and 5 Neutral to Earth. This came in at $442.00 USD delivered to the UK. By the time I've added the cost of cases, plugs etc. I reckon we'd be looking at around $550+ USD. It all sounds rather expensive, until you consider that this is less that the cost of ONE of the larger Russ Andrews filters.
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Aug 10, 2006 14:09:47 GMT
that is insanity build cost should be no more than $10-$15 U.S. or I would not have a boatload of similiar devices plugged into various outlets.I would rip one open to see exactly what I put inside (all built years ago) but I triple insultated the PTP wire up (spagetti on the cap/resistor leads,taped the bundle up then put it all in an insultated plastic plug enclosure----a mess to unravel ,plus I will probably electrocute myself in the process ).I did mine over a period of months as the mood hit when I was deep into the "gotta build something dammit !" part of my second childhood when after an absence of almost twenty years got back into electronics (still back on the learning curve trying to recall things once known,don't get old man,always stay young ,be a "Toys R Us kid 'til they cart out the body in a plastic bag ) Remember one thing here,there is no sound from the box so your choice of caps is more high voltage low leakage than it is sonic quality so audio grade caps are overkill and i only thought to suggest the solens due to what I thought was pretty much universal availability and cheap pricing.I think any 10uf caps paralleled up to get to the 50uf would be fine and again would look to either an electronics surplus dealer (surely you have those in the U.K. ? ) or guitar amp parts dealers and especially to B+ power supply section parts-just not polarized caps
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Aug 10, 2006 16:34:27 GMT
Hi Rick, Here's the breakdown: 5 x 220uF 400v 63mm x 115mm - $43.33 each 25 x 10uF 630v 32mm x 45mm - $4.45 each 20 x .47uF 630v 13m x 22mm - $1.35 each It's those big ass 220uF monsters for the Neutral-Earth filters that are ramping the price up. Despite these being "audio grade" caps, they are actually cheaper than similar, no-name, generic items that I can get here in the UK: rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searchBrowseAction.do?Nr=avl%3auk&N=4294773974%204294870340&forwardingPage=searchAlso, I can't find larger values like 10uF and 220uF anywhere other than at specialist DIY Audio suppliers which want silly money, for example: www.hificollective.co.uk/components/m_cap.htmlI had a quick look around for surplus electronic components and capacitors, but it didn't turn up anything useful.
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Aug 10, 2006 21:26:45 GMT
In the middle of a mind fk project (for three friggin' days now ) but will have a solution for you later dude.Hang in
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Aug 11, 2006 12:58:12 GMT
One thing I wanted to ask you Rick, why is it unnecessary to have the 100K "discharge" resistor in the Neutral to Earth filters:
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Aug 11, 2006 16:20:16 GMT
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Aug 11, 2006 16:56:22 GMT
Surely with that big capacitor in there, some charge builds up, or is it constantly dumping the charge to earth? If so, doesn't it mean that the earth is carrying some current? Under normal circumstances earth should be "dead" and only live when a fault in some item occurs which is earthed, correct? It reminds me of a time I was networking some computers, these were old mainframe terminals which were daisy-chained. The system used a carrier wire for data and dumped to earth, so that a completed circuit was unnecessary; something like that it was a long time ago. I kept getting shocks when connecting them up, anyway, it turns out that the photocopier was faulty and there was 110v AC on the earth line. The electrician that came out was somewhat surprised that I'd managed to network a good dozen or so terminals before complaining.
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Aug 11, 2006 20:17:49 GMT
possibly.I do know a cap of that size can give one a nasty burn and why my power supplies all use bleed down resistors-even the low voltage ones. I also when possible like a "visual aid" to tell me when ALL voltage is drained out and when it is a low voltage DC supply wire my LEDs across the +/- of a bipolar supply rather than the typical V+/Common wiring method.when the LED is dark the power is drained. With typical line operated gear there is AC "on" and AC "off" with ZERO storage so if say a neon is lit then you know the amp is switched on and if dark the amp is off with any remaining voltage in the DC supply if not bled off. This device discussed here is unlike any other line operated device in that it acts more like a storage battery for the AC that will linger for a comparitively long period of time unless bled off but that is in the Hot to Nuetral position.The Earth connection should be a shunt to earth and I would think dissapate harmlessly though i may have to rethink this before someone gets hurt If you use the typical incandescent bulb table lamp analogy then think of how the filaments are connected across the hot and nuetral but have zero earth contact so use a two wire plug.turn it "on" and it lights.off and it goes dark-no storage capacity (the key word here-capacity ).Now replace that with a flourescent lamp,a lamp that has a ballast and you find what ? More often than not three wires mains connection.what has changed that made the former two wire mains go to a full triplex connection ? BALLAST CAPACITORS ! Re-reading the original magnan article (brief perusal ) and if I get a chance will read up on the other versions again to KNOW if I am totally off base here none of the devices have both a hot to nuetral and a hot to ground or nuetral to ground filter in the same device.you either make on or you make the other but no combination units and that alone is telling-tells me not to. So my advice up front would be to do the simple small cap with bleed down resistor and visual indicator versions then when/if we/i can sort out the other version do a separate build and compare results to maybe answer the question if one is preferable to the other or if it is the combination of that is the gold mine
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Aug 14, 2006 16:37:45 GMT
Hi Rick, That was the idea behind the switch and the lamp. The extra cost is next to nothing, so why not. You mentioned earlier that this device should be double insulated. I was going to use these ABS cases, they're about the right size and reasonably cheap: I would mount the components on some matrix board and use plastic "stand offs" so there should be at least an 8 to 10mm gap between anything live and the case. Would I still need some additional insulation? If so, what would you recommend I use?
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Aug 14, 2006 17:06:36 GMT
Mine were "air wired" point-to-point so I added spagetti to the cap leads then taped the bundle with electrical tape then an overall outter insulator made by using a non conducting case
your method should be fine
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