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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 13, 2006 21:06:46 GMT
This has probably been done a million times before but I thought it a good idea and would save on a lot of board space. First off I have superglued 12 x 220nF polyester film caps onto the side of a Panasonic FC 2200uF. I will run a small bead of epoxy around them just to make sure they're sound as a pound and will nthen connect them all in parallel to the legs of the Panasonic FC electrolytic. This will give me a one stop shop electrolytic with film bypass, what do you guys think? Obviously this is my first go at this so the supacap is pretty simple but, if it sounds ok, I will glue on many combinations of polypropylene, silvered mica, polyester etc. to make up a true supercap... just got to wire this one together now and will then try something a bit more exotic but, in general, what do you think of the concept? Mike.
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Stormy
100+
Advocates putting smokers in a "Sin Bin"
Needs to learn to keep his big mouth shut.
Posts: 153
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Post by Stormy on Feb 13, 2006 21:44:27 GMT
That would certainly overcome some of the problems with attaching multiple small caps to the stubs of the big electrolytics on the solder side of PCBs, however they wouldn't fit in places like the PSU section of an X-Can V3 (and probably many other applications) because the board designers put the caps too close together. Great for more spacious existing designs, or new DIY stuff though! Well done.
I did start to map out the PCB for the V3 when I first had it apart, with a possible view to redesigning it with proper pads for parallel caps and things - there is quite a lot of room left on the original PCB if you wanted to space out the existing components a bit because of the sheer size of the case, although it would be more for neatness and convenience than anything else. I wonder if placing a parallel bypass cap slightly away from the original (á la your mods to the output stage on the V3) would sound noticeably different from attaching their legs directly together (signal path lengths/impedance and all that...)?
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 14, 2006 16:19:15 GMT
This is for ? If the smaller caps are RF bypasses you kinda defeat the purpose by adding way too much lead inductance into the equation plus the WIMA's are better suited to filter /frequency modification networks. If you want to try a kick ass RF bypass cap look at the AVX stacked film ceramics.Superior by far if performance is the goal but but not very "pretty" so overlooked mostly for audio use. Shame on AVX ! Don't they know they should change the color of the package and add some cool writing plus add a website explaining why theirs is the only choice for audio bypass SUPERCAP duty ? That they could then multiply the price by a factor 0f X100 and everyone would be more than happy to pay extra thinking it was a bargain ? ;D
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 14, 2006 20:40:34 GMT
Well, I've got a ton of red WIMA caps in a bag and thought I'd experiment with them. There is no particular reason for this other than experimentation. Obviously I'll practice constructing them with these cheap WIMA caps before I use anything "exotic" in the mix.... once I perfect the construction then I can start listening to all sorts of different combinations and see if they sound better than standalone electrolytics or not.... pure experimentation Rick If the smaller caps are RF bypasses you kinda defeat the purpose by adding way too much lead inductance into the equation plus the WIMA's are better suited to filter /frequency modification networks. Trying to keep that to a minimum... see number 2 pictured on the left. If you want to try a kick ass RF bypass cap look at the AVX stacked film ceramics.Superior by far if performance is the goal but but not very "pretty" so overlooked mostly for audio use. Will do but first I will get used to constructing them before strapping expensive caps together. Don't they know they should change the color of the package and add some cool writing plus add a website explaining why theirs is the only choice for audio bypass SUPERCAP duty ? Marketing. They know the fancy colours and marketing BS will appeal to the herd. That they could then multiply the price by a factor 0f X100 and everyone would be more than happy to pay extra thinking it was a bargain ? Again, these are targetted at the mainstream herd.
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 14, 2006 21:37:32 GMT
pennies on a dollar man.what passes for mainstream "audio" part is still at a premium ver "electronic" part until someone discovers something sounds good then they try to corner the market or even re-brand the part and sell it at a premium. The AVX stacked film caps are so far the best I have found for high frequency bypasses and take the old "ceramic caps suck" and stuffs it. It works man,and works very well.Take two identical electrolytics but with the difference that one is "pretty" and has fancy gold writing while the other is drab gray and then charge 10X the price for the pretty one and you will have folks SWEAR that not only does the more expensive capacitor sound better but that it is a bargain then go on and explain why Brand-X sounds like crap. Same part,different color,two entirely different reviews. Dirt cheap at digikey man.Less than the wimas by a fair amount but I do realise you need to "burn up your stash" before trying something new ;D strictly on the merits it is still waaaaay too much.An RF bypass cap only works where it is and if that "where" is away from the actual circuit it is meant to protect then it does very little actual shunting if any at all. You can usually get away with this in a low speed analog circuit but with high speed analog or digital circuits you expose the power entry points of the ciruit to contamination. No big deal man.Just telling you the extrmeme correct version just so you know. BTW-I may end up haunting this joint a bit and getting on everyones nerves here with my "suggestions" since headfi is on my last nerve lately so rather than shut down entirely I may just camp here for a bit.They don't want answers to questions over there just who is popular and what do we like this week. My time is valuable to me so would rather "waste it" posting where it is of value to someone rather than where it is more important to argue personalities than it is to learn a new thing,which by the way if it is not here then SOME DAMN WHERE I will end up camped but I WILL BE HEARD ;D
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 14, 2006 22:09:03 GMT
It works man,and works very well.Take two identical electrolytics but with the difference that one is "pretty" and has fancy gold writing while the other is drab gray and then charge 10X the price for the pretty one and you will have folks SWEAR that not only does the more expensive capacitor sound better but that it is a bargain then go on and explain why Brand-X sounds like crap. Same part,different color,two entirely different reviews. I agree with this up to a point Rick. There are caps and there are also "good" sounding caps irrespective of price, whether cheap or expensive. for example the Panasonic FC with their low ESR audibly "blow" the Jamicon general purpose types into tomorrow. I, personally, think these Black Gate caps sound like total shite and are one of the classic examples of premium rate daylight robbery "oooh Black Gate they must sound good" not to my ears they don't and all this stuff about "they must burn in for 9 months before they sound good" blah blah blah....... Nine months to get used to the harshness more like...... Cheaper than 99p for 1000? That's what I got my WIMAS for on ebay quite a while back. They look pretty though Not exactly a large "crowd" here Rick, more a small gathering... your suggestions are most welcome and there's no way possible you could get on my nerves... not online anyway The floor is yours just one thing...... "political correctness" will not be tolerated
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 14, 2006 22:29:10 GMT
never was one of my strong points anyway.I am more of a "here it is take it or leave it" layed back kinda guy who truly enjoys answering any questions I can until challenged for no reason then the "MONSTER" wakes up and all hell breaks loose.................. This especially when dealing with know-it-alls who have zero clue but still like to argue anyway just to have something to say.If it was about knowledge the thread would have ended on page #1 and that would have been 1/2 blank. And finally. I don't care who the fk reads this or goes running back carrying tales because my days of dealing with ill mannered punks is about at an end anyway.Two weeks stretches at a time being away seems like a lot until I have to deal with the same old crap as soon as I post then two months looks like way too short because it is me that is the asshole for even thinking i was being helpful when I really should know better. How's that for non "PC" ? Too f**kin' mild ? I leave anything out ? examples please ?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 14, 2006 22:42:28 GMT
Ignore whoever is trying to wind you up mate, you're a font of knowledge and if certain dimwits choose to try to undermine you then they're just showing their own ignorance and lack of smarts.... don't let a small bunch of halfwits stop you from posting, you're too much of an asset Rick.
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 15, 2006 0:16:31 GMT
Edited to keep the thread on topic
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Post by zanash on Apr 15, 2006 12:17:59 GMT
But how did it sound ?
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