|
Post by eightdigitword on Mar 29, 2014 0:32:22 GMT
I have a conundrum. after years of living in a flat with a growing Hi-Fi and a limit on volume I have finally got myself a detached house to let my Hi-Fi sing. since my amps grew to increase sound quality my speakers never grew to accommodate volume due to apartment life. it didn't take long before I blew my humble B&W DM601s2's. The woofer has gone in one channel. looking around on line I found a few options to repair, I left some bids on and I got a new driver. I forgot about the other bids and I now have another pair of DM601 S2 speakers (minus the tweeters). my thinking is....can I hook up the second set of speakers in parallel with the first set? will this give me the same volume? will this reduce the load on each individual woofer? will I get a better sound quality? or will i have half the volume in the woofers with the same sound quality? I could amplify each driver, 50w to hi, 100w to mid1, 100w to mid2. Would a diy xover let me take better advantage of this situation? or should I just keep the volume low and save up and buy a proper set of screamers?
I have: x2 DM601 S2 (full working order, cabinet, xover, all drivers) x2 DM602 S2 (tweeters removed, only cabinet, xover + woofers) x1 pre amp (musical fidelity xp100) x2 power amps (musical fidelity xas100, dual mono) x2 power amps (musical fidelity xa50 mono amps)- not in use but optional
what to do? all comments/advice welcome.
|
|
jc
Fully Modded
Posts: 5,417
|
Post by jc on Mar 29, 2014 18:22:12 GMT
If you are after a weightier sound I'd do the following;
Take the tweeters out of the 601s and put them in the 602s. Set up the XA50s and XA100s bi-amped onto the now complete 602s. If you still have the user manuals for the XA100s it has a nice easy wiring diagram showing how to that with said gear. At this level going active will not really gain anything more than bi-amping. If, however, you replace your 'speakers for something more upmarket in the future then going-active may be a nice further upgrade.
The 602s are made to produce more quantity of bass, giving the impression of stronger bass and better at filling a room with sound. With the biamps in place the resultant sound should be at under good control.
Running both sets of speakers in tandem will ultimately move more air but also place more strain on the amps, due to current draw, and totally muddy up your stereo image.
The only thing that worries me is why/how you blew the woofer in the first place? Did you drive whichever amps you had on at the time into clipping? E.g. very high volume levels, especially with a CD source.
|
|
rowuk
Been here a while!
Pain in the ass, ex-patriot yank living in the land of sauerkraut
Posts: 1,011
|
Post by rowuk on Mar 29, 2014 19:42:29 GMT
I have had great luck in doubling the cabinet size and adding the second woofer with a 6db/8va crossover (one coil) around 150Hz (15 mH for 8 ohms).
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 29, 2014 20:47:13 GMT
I agree with Chris, for the "simple" fix.... take the tweeters out of the 601 and fit them into the 602, you will then have a fully operational pair of 602's. Robin's suggestion, as valid as it is, is pretty much a "luck" type of thing unless you can accurately calculate the Q / VAS etc. etc. AND build a larger cabinet to incorporate a second woofer IIRC the tweeters used in the 601 / 602 were identical so whack them into the 602 enclosures and you'll be good to go. Mike.
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 29, 2014 20:55:06 GMT
I have had great luck in doubling the cabinet size and adding the second woofer with a 6db/8va crossover (one coil) around 150Hz (15 mH for 8 ohms). Hi Robin, As far as I'm aware the B&W 602 only had "one" woofer on board. Were you suggesting that eightdigitword built a new cabinet and incorporated TWO woofers into it? (seeing he has all these woofers spare)..... please clarify. All the best, Mike.
|
|
rowuk
Been here a while!
Pain in the ass, ex-patriot yank living in the land of sauerkraut
Posts: 1,011
|
Post by rowuk on Mar 29, 2014 20:57:29 GMT
www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.aspThis would get you going.................. My thoughts are that a parallel woofer down deep where it goes into resonance reduces the impedance and allows a decent amp to provide more current. Doubling the surface area of the woofer increases the "woof" reducing distortion at the same time. <150Hz keeps the midrange tidy. Of course you could build a second cabinet with the volume of the first and wire it in parallel (with the big coil) and get the same effect.
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 29, 2014 21:27:31 GMT
www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.aspThis would get you going.................. My thoughts are that a parallel woofer down deep where it goes into resonance reduces the impedance and allows a decent amp to provide more current. Doubling the surface area of the woofer increases the "woof" reducing distortion at the same time. <150Hz keeps the midrange tidy. Of course you could build a second cabinet with the volume of the first and wire it in parallel (with the big coil) and get the same effect. Hi Robin, Yes, that's all good but let's get the 601 / 602 bits and bobs working for starters..... I think that's all eightdigitword requires...... Simple solution, fit the 2 x 601 tweeters into the 602 holes and job done By the way, eightdigitword, what is your first name? I'm Mike. All the best.
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 29, 2014 21:42:25 GMT
www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.aspThis would get you going.................. My thoughts are that a parallel woofer down deep where it goes into resonance reduces the impedance and allows a decent amp to provide more current. Doubling the surface area of the woofer increases the "woof" reducing distortion at the same time. <150Hz keeps the midrange tidy. Of course you could build a second cabinet with the volume of the first and wire it in parallel (with the big coil) and get the same effect. Ah, I understand what you're saying now Sorry, but I thought you were suggesting that he put his FOUR woofers into new enclosures which "would" be a major job (for somebody who is unsure of what to do with his existing woofer / tweeter stash)...... you could even increase the internal volume of the existing cabinet by applying more BAF wadding, sheep's wool yada yada BUT that's a "given" to us guys, we know that...... The original question has been answered and it's a simple case of "fitting the 601 tweeters into the 602 cabinets"...... The resultant 602 "with 601 tweeters" will be a fully functioning 602. Let's leave it there, for the time being...... All eightdigitword wants to know, at this present time, is the answer / solution to his question. All the best, Mike.
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 29, 2014 21:47:32 GMT
Over to you Robin..... I clearly misread the original post I need to consult an optician.
|
|
|
Post by eightdigitword on Mar 29, 2014 22:43:30 GMT
Tremendous response gents, you wouldn't believe some of the responses I've had on other forums!
I will build up the 602's into a working pair for a quick fix, the engineer/modder in me cant help wonder what i could do with the spare set of woofers and cabinets from the 601's. I'm no stranger to cabinet building or using T&S parameters. plus I already have cabinets that B&W deem suitable for the drivers. what i dont know is if it is worth my while. I am in France with work right now and the speakers are in the post, so its all 'what if' until i start messing about when i get home. xover 'what if' is the big thing i'm wondering about. I know that B&W set them to cut off at 4k, drivers are rated down to 60hz. what about setting a driver 60hz-'low amount' (150hz? as CJ suggested), other driver to 'low amount'(150hz?)-4khz. nonsense? plausible? waste of time? worthwhile? all responses welcome. very interested in rowuk's ideas, double woofer, double air moved, just need to create suitable xovers and potentially use the existing cabinets. rebuild the 601's to a working pair, and use the 602's as modified LLF woofers in their original cabinet, with tweaked xovers.
The woofer actually blew while connected to my AV amp, onkyo 606, not my musical fidelity set up. The sub is connected to my av amp but not my hi-fi. I decided to blast it while doing work in the house and noticed a woofer had gone while passing. worth noting that the level that i had it screaming at was no where near the level id had them through the MF set up previously. Had i been in the room id have noticed the clipping, volume was increased by smart phone over my squeezebox network. Doh!
interested in your comments rowuk, I like the idea of re-housing these. Ultimately i need to buy a set of speakers to keep up with the rest of the hifi but would like to see what i can do with these before i condemn them forever to the loft, especially while i'm skint and full range speakers are about a year away right now.
CJ, there are x2 Xas100's, I previously used one for each channel bi-amp per speaker. I had thought about using the twin x-a50's for driving the tweeters, and each (x2) xas100 for each of the two drivers per channel. much appreciated,
Kevin.
|
|