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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 10:26:23 GMT
You're in for a treat Israel. It'll lift it and it opens it out. I heard some demos where Frans switched it in and out on my T50.
Mine's currently plugged up on the baffle and soon to be having some stuffing put in and then adjustments once it's been looked at for FR on Fran's rig. I think he's even looking at the matching of the drivers as well, since they can be a little bit off with the T40. (Perhaps less quality control)Then of course, the filter.
From the demos I've heard, it is going to be pretty good I reckon. I'm really looking forward to hearing something so flat (which sounds quite funny written like that!!)
I saw some examples of FR printouts after Frans had calibrated the rig to read as accurately as possible and the results look stunningly flat to just beyond 22 or 23 KHz I think it was. (That's his one)
Regarding the use of the filter; I asked Frans about the points made concerning noise/distortion figures. He went through some technicalities with me but in the end it comes down to 'no relevance to real life matters.' That's how I felt about it when actually hearing it. There are also different ways to 'measure' distortion - it's not cut and dried. In any case, it's actually very low since he did say what it's likely to be.
He says that the headphone itself adds around 0.1% (dependent on freq probably between 0.01 and 1 to 10% but may be less). Distortion in the filter electronics is almost as vanishingly low as the specs of the used opamps and far below 0.001%.
Not many £130 headphones can reach this level of flatness/evenness of response (let alone much higher ones like your HE-500) with it's peak, so it's a question of leaving the uneven response as it is for the sake of hi fi resolution or introducing a filter to correct any abnormalities with minimal effect on resolution. (or 'no relevance' as Frans puts it)
He felt that it was rather too low to worry about. People at my work place thought it an excellent solution actually and are gagging to hear my T40!! (Me too!!)
Having said that, I still really like the T50 with just a pad change. The problem here is that once you know how flat these things are able to go, (when it sounds like any other headphone when the 940 pads are fitted), that is no longer good enough, when in fact, it's a really good headphone without opening up.
This tweaking just takes it right up into a different level from an already decent headphone. So I'm keeping the T50 as it is (with or without filter) and the T40 will be the flat one.
To me it's a true RG type project. Cheap and one of the most effective mods I've seen that goes way beyond tweaking capacitors in terms of differences.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 14:05:41 GMT
Hi, Ian I made a few tweaks of the physical mods on the T40s, and now they sound amazingly good! With the original mod, they were a little too screechy in the treble because of the treble reflector (an 18mm diameter glossy magazine paper circular piece), which was placed in the center of the backside of the driver. Without it now, the HF sounds much better balanced and flatter. At Frans' suggestion, I added some perforated stiff felt pieces at the business end of the drivers, which also helped tame down the screechiness. While they don't sound the same as my HE-500s, they are coming pretty close now. In a couple of days I plan to add some heavier damping with more mass (Dynamat) at the business side of the driver in an attempt to make the decay quicker. If that can be achieved, my HE-500 may go on sale! So far, I haven't heard anything that can match the HE-500 transient response and decay rendering air and black space between the sounds - they are that quick! I don't expect the T40/T50 to completely match them, but they are indeed getting pretty darn close, and especially with the pending active filter, will be more so!!! . Mind you, achieving this would be a very lofty goal, for the HE-500 with the Frans filter now are the flattest headphones I have ever heard and are truly phenomenal! As they are now, however, even without a filter, my T40's performance beats every other phone in my arsenal, with the exception of my HE-500, and that includes the modded Denons with the D-5000 mahogany cups, the modded HD600 and HD650 Senns, Beyerdynamic DT-990 pros, and many others, all recabled with Cardas 4x24 custom cables, etc... I can't wait to build the active filter as soon as the PCB arrives from Netherlands. You will then hear me loud and clear, singing the praises for this (SHHHHHHH!!!) incredible bargain! Cheers! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 17:28:21 GMT
They are incredible value, Israel. My headphones will also be going I think. The DT770 has already found a good home.
The T50 has made me see other headphones in a very different light and has shown how much tailoring goes on with them with regards to sound. Just need a home headphone and a portable one - I generally use the IE8 with a custom fit earpiece.
Frans has been working on my T40 today and has found that one mod can introduce other things so he's looking for the best combo. (including DT770 pads on his with a different filter)The pads can cause a 'ripple' further up. He's also looked at 'dampening' materials and the amount.
He's also checked them with a waterfall plot to see if anything is ringing (to get it to stop quicker as you mention about the HE-500)
I'm really looking forward to hearing what he feels is the best solution for them. People at work are getting ready to mug me for them!!
Went out today and the wife has bought a 55" TV. When I got home, she mentioned she'd bought a glass stand for it as well!! Home movies are going to show every flaw in my face ......
This thing goes 3D as well but I'm not going that far yet.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Feb 17, 2013 20:08:42 GMT
They are incredible value, Israel. My headphones will also be going I think. The DT770 has already found a good home. :-*The DT770 has certainly found a good home thanks to your very kind generosity Ian I will certainly look after them and more importantly use them a lot - thanks again I am really looking forward to hearing them now Chris
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 20:49:34 GMT
<snip> He's also checked them with a waterfall plot to see if anything is ringing (to get it to stop quicker as you mention about the HE-500) I'm really looking forward to hearing what he feels is the best solution for them. People at work are getting ready to mug me for them!! I am very confident that Frans will come up with something! He always does! Yeah! We bought a 47" Panasonic Viera the beginning of this year, and it is really "in your face TV" with incredible HD detail and resolution! We have it on a mahogany stand with a rotating platform. Also, it flashes a warning, which unlike the side-view mirrors on my car, reads "OBJECTS ARE SMALLER THAN THEY APPEAR!" Since yours is 55", it should also have the same warning! . Does it? Just kidding! Ours does 3D, and it came with a Blu-Ray player and a bloated sound system, etc. Haven't gone there yet. Maybe when I have some time to kill. Cheers! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 21:07:41 GMT
<snip> Yeah! We bought a 47" Panasonic Viera the beginning of this year, and it is really "in your face TV" with incredible HD detail and resolution! We have it on a mahogany stand with a rotating platform. Also, it flashes a warning, which unlike the side-view mirrors on my car, reads "OBJECTS ARE SMALLER THAN THEY APPEAR!" Since yours is 55", it should also have the same warning! . Does it? Just kidding! Ours does 3D, and it came with a Blu-Ray player and a bloated sound system, etc. Haven't gone there yet. Maybe when I have some time to kill. Cheers! Israel You had me going for a moment there, Israel!! Well, I've estimated the size of this thing compared to the current 32" Samsung and it's huge. I want to be able to read the make of the oboe that I see being played on its bell!! I already have a Blu-Ray player which is a nice Sony one which is a 'smart player' too so I can stream Netflix and Lovefilm, which is nice. However, I dread to think what they'll look like on a 55" TV!! I plug the TV into a couple of Edirol active monitors. I can't be bothered wiring up surround. Too many wires. My front room is about 30 feet long so the TV will no longer look like a portable I suppose. (Good for flying helis too) Maybe if I show a nature programme on fish, the fish in my aquarium might start to watch and think they've been released.... Chris, I'll get them off tomorrow.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 17, 2013 21:24:04 GMT
How is Frans doing Ian? There is a place for all our "beliefs" and it is right here
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 21:40:44 GMT
Mike It disappoints me that Frans is now becoming regarded as the "Guru" from afar, and is getting seemingly as much coverage here as he did when he posted here regu;arly.This means that none of the other members have a chance to discuss these things with him in open forum, and even suggest alternatives . Replies from Frans in open forum would also give him the opportunity to explain why he is doing things the way he is doing them, and what he believes are the pitfalls of alternatives. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 22:21:42 GMT
How is Frans doing Ian? ... there is a place for all our "beliefs" and it is right here After the last stint he became a little disillusioned, Mike. However, once he went, we discussed everything backstage and no grudges etc were held, which I'm very pleased about. No point going into details really, but 'agreeing to disagree' as Alex did with me earlier over his filter would have been a better route with Frans and that wasn't the case. If it had been the case, my belief is that he 'may' have stayed for a little longer. He's had an ear infection recently, which hasn't been nice but he gets to spend more time with his family which is nicer for them, although he works so damned hard and in such a focused way on whatever takes his mind up. His recent work with the T50 is getting quite a reputation in other places, since he's taken the mods developed in the USA for the T40/T50 to another level and is getting quite a reputation for it. There is a quite a high demand for his filters actually. That's why I brought it all up here. It's quite an interesting development which I think is very relevant to RG and modding cheap gear. Alex, I have relayed basically the nub of what he thinks concerning distortion after you raised it. After all, it's in my best interests as well. You wouldn't agree with his reply so he isn't replying, although he has to me. You're also presuming that he wouldn't have considered these matters when in fact, he has all along and tried to work out a 'best' solution taking that and FR into mind. ie - which is the worst of the two scenarios. I did try to say that to you, but you don't accept it, but with me, you're more willing to 'agree to disagree' but not so with Frans. That's why he won't reply on RG.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 22:49:19 GMT
Ian That perfectly illustrates my point about the "Guru from afar" I would suggest that I copped a lot more flack from Frans and other members due to my beliefs than most, but I didn't seek refuge elsewhere when the going got tough, and believe me, I did at times feel like disappearing. If Frans was having problems due to health or personal problems,, or simply needed quiet time to pursue his ideas, I am sure that everybody would have understood. As Frans is still a member here,I feel that it would be in the best interests of this forum if Frans posted this information himself, and responded the same to questions as every other member has to,not by way of relays from 3rd parties, who may, or may not, completely and accurately convey the gist of his replies. I was not alone in suggesting that the digital equalisation route may have perhaps been less invasive, but it would have been nice to have been able to openly discuss this, and perhaps learn why Frans dismissed this option. It would appear that Frans is getting a lot of free publicity without being held accountable. I bet that others like Aune, and John Kenny,who do respond to questions and are very approachable through this forum, would like to be able to do the same. How about a level playing field for all ? It also raises the question as to whether Frans designs are now in the commercial area, or about to become available commercially. I would love to see Frans get his arse back here, and post this stuff himself, and be also open to questions . We all should have learned a lot from what happened previously, and I would hope that things would be better moderated next time by all concerned. Kind Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 23:50:20 GMT
Alex, every headphone and amp on here gets free publicity. Good or bad. You don't believe what I said so I asked the maker. I have a fuller and more detailed reply but I didn't think it right to quote it. Since this seems to be about publicity for Frans and his status as a 'guru' (your words, no-one else's) shall we take this thread off and leave it out? Perhaps it's better to forget the T50 for now because Frans is involved? So let"s just close this thread down! Ian I have been enjoying reading your thoughts on the Fostex, and Israel's as well, I would hate to see the thread closed. I have read Fran's documents elsewhere and obtained one of his filter boards, though not yet made it up. I have put felt in the cups of my 50s and on the driver. I used 5mm medium felt and used, as Mike suggested, the black mastic, non setting stuff. Upshot is these phones now sound amazing (to my ears). I have the 940 pads also. I didn't follow Fran's instructions as far as the materials he used as I couldn't find similar nearby and was impatient, I used the above and therefore don't know if these sound the same as those that Frans has been working on. I love them as they are but I suspect I have managed to make them too bass loaded, they make my Senn 650s sound 'airy'! Syd
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 6:41:23 GMT
Hi Syd, I presume you put a little square of material behind the driver? Perhaps not enough filling (or wrong type)in the cups? Experiments have shown that different materials affect them in different ways - which is why I went on about doing the mods carefully at the start of the thread. Other than that - the electrical route that introduces distortion! Syd, perhaps we'll move it somewhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 7:43:03 GMT
Ian You are assuming that I have no previous experience using active filters, I have constructed many preamps over the years, valve, transistor, and I.C. based, with and without active filters/tone controls , as well as active filters in general. I have yet to hear one that doesn't cause some degradation of the sound, just as opamps in tandem do. I have absolutely zero interest whatsoever in hearing any more I.C. based active filters, no matter who they are designed by . I will leave it at that, as I am clearly pissing you off big time.. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 8:04:03 GMT
Ian You are assuming that I have no previous experience using active filters, I have constructed many preamps over the years, valve, transistor, and I.C. based, with and without active filters/tone controls , as well as active filters in general. I have yet to hear one that doesn't cause some degradation of the sound, just as opamps in tandem do. I have absolutely zero interest whatsoever in hearing any more I.C. based active filters, no matter who they are designed by . I will leave it at that, as I am clearly pissing you off big time.. Alex No Alex, I'm not pissed off!! Not at all. However, I don't like being in the middle of these things. I respect and like both yourself and Frans very much. Last time there was a problem I ended up falling out with Frans and he left. I have never felt right about RG since then if I'm honest. Anyway, I'm leaving this T50 thread alone now so it doesn't cause any more problem. Basically, you're saying the filter is a bad idea and I'm saying I can't hear the effects. It's as simple as that. It's not because I'm using mp3 to test it!! (You cheeky sod!!!! )
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 8:17:43 GMT
Ian You appear to be seeing me as inconsistent here, and thst this is due to problems with Frans. If you check much further back, you will find that I took a similar hard line when Jon Clancy tried to promote the use of an optical attenuator with my Class A preamplifier. On that occasion Frans sided with me due to the added distortion etc. that the optical attenuator brought, especially a preponderance of USUALLY even order distortion with it's non natural added warmth. Regards Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 18, 2013 20:16:30 GMT
I would like to see Frans contribute to this thread (and others). He is a member here and it would be just as quick for him to do a write up "out in the open" as it is to do individual PM's. I don't know what went down with Frans but do agree that it's pretty childish the way he is totally snubbing the forum yet, at the same time, using it when it suits him for private messages. I too have great respect for Frans and like him as a personality but feel he has let both himself and forum members down with his decision to leave (yet NOT leave). This is a great thread Ian, leave it be, it would be nice to have Frans join in rather than you being a go between. Everybody here likes Frans, there's no doubt about that..... I'm just beginning to wonder if he likes "us". There is no reason, whatsoever, that Frans can't post.... he is more than welcome here and missed by quite a lot of people, myself included. Frans is not the first person to get pissed off after a clash of "egos" and he won't be the last..... Rick quite often took time out ("I'm out of this joint knuckleheads!") but he always came back, stronger than ever He didn't go "cry baby" (as he put it) he argued his point and he stood by his opinion.... he didn't go crying to Mummy when somebody challenged his opinion..... he went straight to the locker room and got his boxing gloves out! Another person I respect greatly is Alex. He has his opinion and he stands by it, he taken a lot of stick (over the years) but he has always stood firm with his beliefs and has been loyal to this forum and it's members.... he's not a "cry baby" either and is more than capable of giving as good as he gets in a heated debate. This recent "prima donna" type behaviour reminds me of modern day footballers, they hit the deck crying "foul" if you so much as fart in their general direction..... I thought Frans had more balls than to leave the pitch crying foul. Anyhoo....... keep this thread going Ian, you've got balls.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2013 20:49:18 GMT
I'm taking a rest for a while ...... I'll go one better Ian...... I'm going to DELETE this forum in the next 24 hours
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2013 20:57:37 GMT
Let's do it.... all things must pass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 21:10:11 GMT
Let's do it.... all things must pass. Press da button!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2013 21:14:04 GMT
Let's do it.... all things must pass. Press da button! You lookin' at me?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2013 21:16:12 GMT
You want a bit you Slaaaaaaaag?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 21:17:10 GMT
It's the best way to clean the thread. Blow the friggin' country up!! No survivors.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 22:28:54 GMT
You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off !!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 23:05:18 GMT
You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off !! Yeah, shit happens. Do you feel lucky, punk?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 23:10:45 GMT
Yippee-ki-yay, motherf%$£@r!
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