mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jan 29, 2013 10:39:54 GMT
Israel, good luck and look forward to hearing your impressions. I have not bought them … yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 12:56:43 GMT
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Jan 29, 2013 15:55:27 GMT
Hi Ian, Wow you have stirred up some interest. I have the Shure Pads. They are a bit of a pain to get on I can say that much. By themselves not an improvement, other than comfort. I prefer the sound of the stock pads. However I have been experimenting with tape over the bass ports and seem to be getting a little better FR, but with only my ears, I know Frans would want a measurement. . Hoping to get a chance to hear LFF's model and definitely will be hearing the Mad Dogs next month at the Chang-Fest in San Francisco, as Mr. Speakers will be their himself. I'll report back (subjectively of course) on the sound. Chris, Nice mods. Very nice instructions. I've been gradually buying the materials for the mods, but their are so many different ways people take with these I have been slow, like usual, to get started. The hardest part was getting that German plasticine. ;D . Particularly because I didn't know what plasticine was. I finally got a hint after listening to the Beatles "Polythene Pam". See, Ian they do have some useful songs! ;D Ron
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 17:21:29 GMT
Hi Ian, Wow you have stirred up some interest. I have the Shure Pads. They are a bit of a pain to get on I can say that much. By themselves not an improvement, other than comfort. I prefer the sound of the stock pads. However I have been experimenting with tape over the bass ports and seem to be getting a little better FR, but with only my ears, I know Frans would want a measurement. . Hoping to get a chance to hear LFF's model and definitely will be hearing the Mad Dogs next month at the Chang-Fest in San Francisco, as Mr. Speakers will be their himself. I'll report back (subjectively of course) on the sound. Chris, Nice mods. Very nice instructions. I've been gradually buying the materials for the mods, but their are so many different ways people take with these I have been slow, like usual, to get started. The hardest part was getting that German plasticine. ;D . Particularly because I didn't know what plasticine was. I finally got a hint after listening to the Beatles "Polythene Pam". See, Ian they do have some useful songs! ;D Ron Not me, Ron. The interest in these headphones is crawling all over the internet; especially since you guys in the USA get such a good price on them. (Hence the reference to drawing horse to water - thanks Chris!! ) Interesting that you aren't getting much in terms of sound improvements from the pad change. The graphs I saw suggest more bass. Apparently, the Paradox is pretty much flat and the Mad Dogs version is a more bassy type. The Paradox custom version is expensive though; especially if you want them painted. He says that there's no difference in sound so I personally wouldn't worry about the colour. It would be nice to know EXACTLY what he's doing though. I thought the filling used was some kind of clay rather than Plasticine on some mods. (we're going to start Mike up again now!!) I'm not sure if any differences can be heard. There was talk on one forum concerning the material used inside can have an effect and the least effective was cotton based. So I presume you're going to do the operation then, Ron? Brave man!! With the ports, Ron, I presume you're blocking both top and bottom ones? (Including the ones behind the copper coloured adjustment mechanism) I might have a play with putting my fingers over them while listening to see what blocking them does. When I have mine done, I'll write up what I think. I'm going to have to hide it at work though 'cos there are guys there who are wanting to dismantle it to see what he's done. I've banned them. I'm not sure who's more excited - them or me!! Funny thing, hi fi......
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 29, 2013 18:47:12 GMT
I wouldn't use plasticine, Butyl rubber would be much better... it's seriously "tacky" and great for dampening... plasticine doesn't really have any "tack" to it, stick a piece on a wall and see how long it takes before it falls off
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 19:18:12 GMT
Or the old bitch you man!! That'll stay put. A lot of guys are loading up the baffle with clay, I think it is, Mike. That's why I asked Chris if there's any chance of it falling out. The other thing is that it could harden on the outer edge and in effect, be loose fitting in there, which is really not the aim if it's to stiffen the baffle. The German high grade plasticine is a joke. I didn't know it came in grades. I thought Wallace and Gromit were the same stuff but maybe one's more classy than the other.
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 29, 2013 19:42:31 GMT
I must report, that my Plasticine IS German... Staedtler make... no joke...
The only reason i have it is that it seemed the best quality for its price... (bought from Jumbo toy store...), the guy making the mods on e-bay wasn't around then...
And it has remained tacky and firmly in its place since December 2011...
But i think all this doesn't really matter... anything you use to stiffen the baffle will have a similar effect...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 20:17:10 GMT
Hi Chris, I had reservations because it can harden with time on the outside and although it stays in place, it may not maintain contact with the baffle. (Also -(this is me) - plasticine does resonate; especially as it hardens) What's the difference between Greek plasticine and German stuff? Is it more sticky? Seriously? The type of stuffing you put in does indeed have an effect on how flat you get the headphone to go. Most of the graphs that have fillings show a mild hump in FR around 200 Hz. He can eliminate this but it's not due to just filling the cups. Malleable eraser works and is a bugger to get off. It won't move at all. He's closing the ports, using eraser but not over dampening. The amount and kind of wool he uses in the cavity is also key. However, that filter ...... it sorts out the mild hump at 200 Hz and raises 10 - 20 Khz. This way one doesn't have to pull the maximum bag of tricks needed to iron flat that 200Hz small bump, it's just filtered 'flat'. So it's a combination of things and it sounds to me like he's going slightly easier on the stuffing and being careful about the type and quantity of wool. Don't get me wrong - I reckon they improve with the mods that are shown, but I'm aiming at as flat as possible and I think he's found a way. Ron, try malleable eraser but don't put it on the furniture!!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 29, 2013 20:21:05 GMT
Plasticine is OK, they could have also used blu-tack.... my personal experiments with the AT W-1000 found that butyl rubber tape worked best: It will stick onto ANYTHING and can either be applied as the tape or you can massage it into balls with your fingers.... being butyl rubber based it has excellent damping properties..... I like to call this stuff SUPER blu-tack, the butyl rubber tape is one of the best discoveries I have made over the years.... Roll into 4 same sized balls..... place under loudspeakers.... beats sorbothane hands down Damping a CD enclosure? Butyl rubber tape is your best friend In fact, this stuff gets used by me for a multitude of things! I carry a blob in the car (just in case), I used a small bit to hold a loose crown in position whilst awaiting a dental appt., 5 years ago I stripped down solar garden lights and to make SURE they were waterproof I replaced all the bogus seals with butyl rubber tape.... they're still working and still 100% waterproof! My mates boat had a small leak (wooden boat), it didn't bother him but it bothered me.... we were out fishing and I wedged a lump of butyl rubber tape into the crack with a pen knive.... no more leak! The stuff is sooooo versatile..... I even dry mount SOIC chips with a teeny weeny "pinch" of butyl rubber tape..... annoying noise from the rear tailgate of the car, a few strategic blobs of butyl rubber tape.... noise gone! Back on the "teeth" theme..... a filling fell out when I was eating a Tunnocks caramel wafer..... I was in fekkin' agony, the nerve was exposed..... after about two hours of clove oil and a cornucopia of painkillers I went out to the workshop and jammed a blob of butyl rubber tape into the cavity.... instant relief! It stayed in situ for 3 days until the dentist's appointment Be warned though.... this stuff can be really strong, especially if it's left in service for a while, I mounted a pair of el cheapo Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 loudspeakers on Atacama stands with blobs of butyl rubber tape inbetween...... A couple of years later I went to remove the speakers and found they were pretty well stuck on Side to side movements to break the bond seemed to be going well UNTIL I pulled "upwards" and heard a kind of "ripping" sound...... the veneer had parted company with the speaker cabinets! Probably more indicative of poor quality "veneering" than the grip of the mighty butyl rubber tape..... anyhoo...... I'm veering off on a tangent here..... I would feel a lot better knowing my headphones were damped with butyl rubber tape..... plasticine / clay may well work loose over time (especially when it hardens in cold weather)..... even "German" plasticine (yes, hard to believe)....... In fact, IIRC, didn't the Germans lose the war because their plasticine wasn't up to scratch in the V3 bombs? If they had used Butyl rubber tape those vibrations wouldn't have been an "issue" and we would have all been eating bratwurst today. I'm off to buy a pair of these..... will report back soon
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 20:28:43 GMT
;D That was a great post, Mike. Teeth? ?? Jeeze!!! I agree, that stuff sticks like flippin' 'eck!!! Did you use it on the dt770 as well? I have been thinking about doing something to that one. You won't like the stock T50rp, Mike. Stuck in the mids. They are darker than a Senn HD650 in stock form. No deep bass. BIG amp and turn the wick up and you can hear that there is potential. Apparently, it ends up pointing out bad recordings rather well so you could end up changing the CD's!!!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 29, 2013 21:01:32 GMT
Not as great as this one: I can't compete with that post
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 29, 2013 21:13:06 GMT
Just hit the BIN button... will report back as and when
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 21:22:17 GMT
Have you bought the pre-modded one Mike?
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chris1967
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Double dip recession, Humous and taramosalata are off the menu!
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 29, 2013 21:32:21 GMT
The difference between Greek Plasticine and German is that we don't produce any... i think...
I am enjoying this thread... it goes from scientific to practical at any given time... i enjoyed the comment about the crown... haven't seen that one yet, in over twenty years of practice...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 21:39:55 GMT
Careful guys, or you will all end up hearing things like Frans does(n't) ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 21:57:02 GMT
That one made me wince actually!! The difference between Greek Plasticine and German is that we don't produce any... i think...
I did wonder ...... You have lots of marble though instead so you can model with that I guess. But please, no more naked men on pedestals. You know that one of a discus thrower. He has no arms - I reckon it's because he had no clothes on and just couldn't leave things along, so the artist (quite rightly) took his arms off to stop him!! That's the fun of hi fi, Chris. We can tweak away and have a bit of a laugh. (and that discus thrower did far too much tweaking for his own good) Reflections are 'louder' than resonances of the plastic so we need to stuff a sheep in there! The membrane has to have something to push against, that should be as 'fixed' as possible. So the padding on the back is to stiffen it. The magnets themselves are quite heavy and the baffle is light.
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chris1967
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Double dip recession, Humous and taramosalata are off the menu!
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 30, 2013 6:25:21 GMT
... we have some naked women also... and when you think things couldn't get weirder... they also don't have arms...
get well guys!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 7:48:21 GMT
Well, I guess it's 'armless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 12:01:31 GMT
Don't get them drunk as well then, they'll be legless too
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 30, 2013 20:25:52 GMT
No... the stock ones..... I e-mailed them this morning to cancel the order but they had been dispatched....... I'll see how I feel when they arrive, I'll either send them straight back for a refund or start hunting about for some German stuffing...... I need another pair of headphones like a hole in the head
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 20:29:35 GMT
I don't think you'll like the stock sound, Mike. It's good for a monitor, but I would say hard for Hi fi.
Opposite to Sony. Top end is curtailed at 10KHz. It focuses on the mids.
Not yer typical 'rock' headphone!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 17:09:23 GMT
I took the old pads off. (carefully - they're stuck on at certain points) They were replaced with Shure 940 pads which are velour.
Result - more comfortable. Stil semi open .... but the bass. OMG. They go deeeep.
It is a different headphone altogether with these pads. It sounds much more like a hi fi headphone now. Just the pads, no opening up and dampening has produced a sound that is drop dead gorgeous.
I like these headphones big time.
Worth every penny and I think will become my main headphone at home.
I may keep this one as it is now and get another one for fully modding to compare.
IMO, this is a bargain headphone that takes headphone listening to a new level. Mike ..... I take that back. Keep it!!!!!!! Just get the Shure 940 pads.
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Post by dicky on Feb 3, 2013 17:22:20 GMT
I'm glad to hear that, Ian - I haven't put my Shure pads on yet. I've built Frans' filter (today) but I need to sort out a power supply for it - so I haven't tried that either. I was going to recable them too. For no other reason than the stock cable is intermittent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 18:18:37 GMT
Dicky, it's a totally different headphone.
I stuck with the stock headphone for a while so that any changes would be immediately apparent.
Today was time for the pads to go on and it hits straight away. It feels deeper and the top seems less retrained. The mids perhaps have slightly receded. Not massive though.
I'll stick with this for a while now before either modding this one fully or getting another one.
I'd say it's an HD650 match.
BTW - that pads are funny. There are two ways of getting them on. Either get hold of the edges and stretch your way around or bend the flaps of the pads back onto the actual pads - put them in the right place and try flipping the flaps over the cups. A bit tight.
The old pads are stuck down in different places with a piece of double sided tape so if you want to keep them, you need to take care.
A lot more comfortable. More bass weight and just impressive. They are also a very 'fast' attacking headphone this way. There's something about orthos that make them seem to have a lot of impact.
Mike, if you don't want another headphone, just readdress it and I'll buy it. With the pad change, it simply takes you to another level.
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Post by dicky on Feb 3, 2013 18:55:46 GMT
I agree about their impact, Ian. It was definitely one of the positives I first noted.
I've just ordered the remaining bits for the filter - so hopefully I'll get them up and running next weekend with pads too.
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