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Post by colinb on Oct 12, 2012 9:50:12 GMT
Hi Israel,
I find flat driver headphones (i.e Orthos and stats) make other cheaper dynamic phones difficult to listen to if you try to use both types at the same time. You can often audibly hear the extra distortion of the dynamic phones in comparison. However, I find that if you exclusively listen to a dynamic phone for a few weeks you can get somewhat accustomed to that distortion though again, a bit like getting used to a particular freq response shape.
Glad you are liking the HE500s. Really look forward to hearing your views when you recable it.
Cheers, Colin
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 12, 2012 10:13:23 GMT
Israel, if you ever want to sell the stock silver cable let me know. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 15:28:29 GMT
Israel, if you ever want to sell the stock silver cable let me know. Thanks. Hi, Miguel Thanks for the offer! I will keep it in mind, however, my wife is also in love with my new HE-500, and strangely enough, seems to like the sound with the silver cable. After I build the Cardas cable, she may find that she prefers it to the silver, so we will see where we go from there. Have a Great Weekend! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 16:23:02 GMT
Colin, Israel. I found that by adding a pr of Senn foam head band strips to the leather head band of the HE6`s, made them a lot more comfortable on my head!! Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 18:16:57 GMT
Colin, Israel. I found that by adding a pr of Senn foam head band strips to the leather head band of the HE6`s, made them a lot more comfortable on my head!! Mick. Hi, Mick Thanks for posting these! I was thinking of doing something similar, and it looks like a good idea! I was thinking of placing some velour fabric on the leather band, but I may try using foam strips, and the foam will add extra cushioning. It will probably help my bald head, and solve the stickiness problem of leather against skin. Did you order the foam head band strips directly from Sennheiser? All the Best! Israel Sent from my iPad
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 18:50:55 GMT
Hi Israel,
Same problem as i have, hair, or lack of, on top!!
These allow air to circulate under the leather headband,also give a nice cushion, improving comfort.
They are spares for the HD 25`s which i purchased from ebay, look to see if any are available on the American ebay site.
Mick.
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Post by colinb on Oct 12, 2012 19:42:08 GMT
Hey Mick,
Many thanks for the info and pics! I'll look into that when I get my HE500s.
Cheers, Colin
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 0:10:49 GMT
Hi Israel, I find flat driver headphones (i.e Orthos and stats) make other cheaper dynamic phones difficult to listen to if you try to use both types at the same time. You can often audibly hear the extra distortion of the dynamic phones in comparison. However, I find that if you exclusively listen to a dynamic phone for a few weeks you can get somewhat accustomed to that distortion though again, a bit like getting used to a particular freq response shape. Glad you are liking the HE500s. Really look forward to hearing your views when you recable it. Cheers, Colin Hi, Colin I just recabled my HE-500s, and am very happy with the Cardas 4x24 cable and the Cardas Gold rhodium-plated stereo plug. Compared to the silver, it is smoother overall, and the bass is better. Much more musical, and more refined. The mid-frequencies are just beautiful. Strings sound magnificent - silky smooth. Brass sounds brilliant without being harsh, and woodwinds sound very lifelike. All in all, absolutely beautiful! I am enclosing a photo
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 8:06:19 GMT
Nice job Israel, Pleased your happy with the end result. Great HP`s, even the 400`s sound excellent. Enjoy. Mick.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 14, 2012 11:55:54 GMT
Nice job indeed, like Mick I use the OCC balanced cable from Head Direct on the HE500 and HE300. Very happy with the results and I hope you enjoy yours.
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Post by pagan on Oct 14, 2012 12:15:28 GMT
Miguel Did you ever try the Stax variant in comparison to these.... I'm thinking about the he-500
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Post by colinb on Oct 14, 2012 19:06:37 GMT
Hey Israel,
Your recable job looks great and I'll intrigued by the results you got compared to the silver cable. If it make the bass bigger that's very good (and usual compared to a silver cable). I'm a little bit of a bass head so this is a must for me to try when I get my HE500s.
Does anyone know a good place to get this particular raw cardas 4x24AWG cable in the UK?
Cheers, Colin
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 22:55:24 GMT
Hi, Colin To my ears, the bass on the HE-500s with the Cardas 2x24 cable, sleeved with Techflex multifilament sleeving and the Cardas Gold Rhodium-Plated 6.3mm Stereo plug, is bigger sounding, at the same time being considerably tightened (no ringing whatsoever). As I said, the midrange is absolutely gorgeous, and the highs, while not as brittle and cold as in the silver cable, are all there, but much smoother, refined, and natural sounding, making the strings in symphony orchestra recordings sounding silky, and much more refined than with the silver. I don't know of a supplier for the bulk Cardas cable in the UK. I get mine from Moon Audio - www.moon-audio.com in the US, priced at $8.00 US per running foot, which is a reasonable price. You may want to contact the owner Drew Baird at his website, about the cost of shipping. You may find that it would be more reasonable to purchase the supplies from him, which may end up somewhat cheaper, as compared to a UK supplier, charging more than $10.00 per running foot. Drew also sells the Cardas Gold Rhodium-Plated Stereo Plug for $15.50 US. My total for 6 feet of Cardas Cable, plus the plug, was about $75.00 US shipped. You can find Techflex multifilament sleeving at eBay. I also periodically check eBay for reasonably priced bulk Cardas cable, but this time, I did not find any, other than expensive ready-made ones, i.e. $200 US and up. Cheers! Israel Sent from my iPad
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 15, 2012 9:59:29 GMT
Miguel Did you ever try the Stax variant in comparison to these.... I'm thinking about the he-500 Only a Lambda Pro via SRD-7 modded by Birgir. I preferred the HE500.
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Post by colinb on Oct 15, 2012 23:55:35 GMT
I've tried around 15 Stax phones before, i.e. all of them apart from the Omega I, SR009 and original SR3 and the current cheaper range. The Lambda Pro has a very clinical sound. It's very detailed like a stethoscope but in a really grey way. Its quite unmuscial IMO and you can't really listen to it for that long. The midrange has an unusual narrow dip centered at a certain frequency that's very well known and sounds a bit odd. Not surprised you preferred the HE500. Miguel Did you ever try the Stax variant in comparison to these.... I'm thinking about the he-500 Only a Lambda Pro via SRD-7 modded by Birgir. I preferred the HE500.
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Post by colinb on Oct 16, 2012 0:04:07 GMT
Hi Israel, That for the info. This sounds like a really great cable change on the HE500 from your description for what it does to all aspects of the freq range whilst making things more refined compared to the stock silver cable Thanks a lot for the info on buying the cardas wire new but I should be able to find a used cardas starquad cable here. Lots were sold as Sennhesier headphone leads. I'll terminate with the right parts for the HE500. In fact I heard Nigel's Cardas cable on my Sennheiser dynamic phones a few years back. It mainly changed the sound by making it more silky and refined in the mids and treble (like you describe) if my memory serves me correctly. I know for sure I'll have to try a decent copper cable on the HE500 before deciding whether I want to keep it or not. Still not got it yet. It should come anytime soon. Will post my thoughts up when I've heard it. Cheers, Colin Hi, Colin To my ears, the bass on the HE-500s with the Cardas 2x24 cable, sleeved with Techflex multifilament sleeving and the Cardas Gold Rhodium-Plated 6.3mm Stereo plug, is bigger sounding, at the same time being considerably tightened (no ringing whatsoever). As I said, the midrange is absolutely gorgeous, and the highs, while not as brittle and cold as in the silver cable, are all there, but much smoother, refined, and natural sounding, making the strings in symphony orchestra recordings sounding silky, and much more refined than with the silver. I don't know of a supplier for the bulk Cardas cable in the UK. I get mine from Moon Audio - www.moon-audio.com in the US, priced at $8.00 US per running foot, which is a reasonable price. You may want to contact the owner Drew Baird at his website, about the cost of shipping. You may find that it would be more reasonable to purchase the supplies from him, which may end up somewhat cheaper, as compared to a UK supplier, charging more than $10.00 per running foot. Drew also sells the Cardas Gold Rhodium-Plated Stereo Plug for $15.50 US. My total for 6 feet of Cardas Cable, plus the plug, was about $75.00 US shipped. You can find Techflex multifilament sleeving at eBay. I also periodically check eBay for reasonably priced bulk Cardas cable, but this time, I did not find any, other than expensive ready-made ones, i.e. $200 US and up. Cheers! Israel Sent from my iPad
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 16, 2012 9:55:18 GMT
Miguel Did you ever try the Stax variant in comparison to these.... I'm thinking about the he-500 Only a Lambda Pro via SRD-7 modded by Birgir. I preferred the HE500. Actually I meant side by side, I have tried other Stax and although fine not my cup of tea.
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Post by colinb on Oct 17, 2012 15:59:30 GMT
Hi guys,
I got my used HE500 today, and a used LCD2 Rev1. I have FR and tonality issues with both (which are the most important thing to me in a headphone). The LCD2 sounds a bit hard/harsh in the midrange to personally, and quite clinical sounding. This example sounds better than the first one I had a couple of year ago though as the highs seem a little more extended. I am not sure if the hardness is something that is just there to some degree (and like I say I am very sensitive to tonality) or the way my ears interact with these particular headphones. Bass is good of course and has the edge slightly over the HE500s.
The HE500?, - well its very refined and more musical/less clinical than the LCD2 in my opinion. Bass is good, midrange is good, but the treble?, - it’s just a bit too bright. The cable it came with was not silver, - it is Canare 4S6 speaker cable which is plain old copper. (same cable used in the stock LCD2 in fact)
I thought about just reselling both headphones and looking at something else, but I quite like the HE500. I will try to put extra material in the middle of the pads to tame the highs and I will look at other cables. The Cardas is an option but its quite pricey and I don’t think it will do enough to tame the highs for me. I will look at cable with thicker gauge copper wires. In fact 18 or 16 AWG would probably be good for this purpose, but then the headphone cable would be too stiff! Done this before with interconnects. The thicker copper cable gives less brightness at the top due to the skin effect. It does work and can be a useful fix for taming bright highs.
For me personally I prefer the general FR of the HD600 over both these headphones (apart from very low bass which the HD600 significantly lacks in comparison.) The HD600 is known for its evenly balanced FR, though many people prefer the similar but darker/thicker sounding HD650.
The HD600 has audible distortion compared to the Orthos as its a dynamic, and that really does count in favour of the flat driver orthos. Classical and Jazz music with the Orthos sounds superb in particular and much more natural.
The HE500 came with two sets of pads, - I originally tried it with pleather pads then the original velvet type ones. I am not sure the pleather ones seal properly as the bass is lacking. The velvet type ones are much better souding to my ears so they are the ones I’ll use.
On a side note I heard the HD800 for a second time last night. “What’s the hell is going on?” I thought, when I put them on. The FR abnormalities are intolerable to me, - there is some very weird and very obvious peak or peakiness in the upper midrange/lower treble than gives a nasty nasal sound, and there is severe sibilance too! The Soundstage was incredible like everyone says, but this peakiness is a real problem for me personally, - like I say the good tonality and linear FR is the most important thing to me in a headphone. In direct comparison the HD600 has a much better FR without these peaks (but of course the soundstage is not as good and its not as transparent as the HD800). Apparently people have tried some mods to address the HD800 peakiness but I’ve not looked into it yet. I can’t see myself ever buying a pair unless this problem can be solved. Also from what I have heard, - some examples are worse than others, so its a bit of a lottery buying one anyway.
Anyway, will post up when I've adjusted my HE500 a bit.
Cheers, Colin
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 6:00:04 GMT
Hi guys, I got my used HE500 today, and a used LCD2 Rev1. I have FR and tonality issues with both (which are the most important thing to me in a headphone). The LCD2 sounds a bit hard/harsh in the midrange to personally, and quite clinical sounding. This example sounds better than the first one I had a couple of year ago though as the highs seem a little more extended. I am not sure if the hardness is something that is just there to some degree (and like I say I am very sensitive to tonality) or the way my ears interact with these particular headphones. Bass is good of course and has the edge slightly over the HE500s. The HE500?, - well its very refined and more musical/less clinical than the LCD2 in my opinion. Bass is good, midrange is good, but the treble?, - it’s just a bit too bright. The cable it came with was not silver, - it is Canare 4S6 speaker cable which is plain old copper. (same cable used in the stock LCD2 in fact) I thought about just reselling both headphones and looking at something else, but I quite like the HE500. I will try to put extra material in the middle of the pads to tame the highs and I will look at other cables. The Cardas is an option but its quite pricey and I don’t think it will do enough to tame the highs for me. I will look at cable with thicker gauge copper wires. In fact 18 or 16 AWG would probably be good for this purpose, but then the headphone cable would be too stiff! Done this before with interconnects. The thicker copper cable gives less brightness at the top due to the skin effect. It does work and can be a useful fix for taming bright highs. For me personally I prefer the general FR of the HD600 over both these headphones (apart from very low bass which the HD600 significantly lacks in comparison.) The HD600 is known for its evenly balanced FR, though many people prefer the similar but darker/thicker sounding HD650. The HD600 has audible distortion compared to the Orthos as its a dynamic, and that really does count in favour of the flat driver orthos. Classical and Jazz music with the Orthos sounds superb in particular and much more natural. The HE500 came with two sets of pads, - I originally tried it with pleather pads then the original velvet type ones. I am not sure the pleather ones seal properly as the bass is lacking. The velvet type ones are much better souding to my ears so they are the ones I’ll use. On a side note I heard the HD800 for a second time last night. “What’s the hell is going on?” I thought, when I put them on. The FR abnormalities are intolerable to me, - there is some very weird and very obvious peak or peakiness in the upper midrange/lower treble than gives a nasty nasal sound, and there is severe sibilance too! The Soundstage was incredible like everyone says, but this peakiness is a real problem for me personally, - like I say the good tonality and linear FR is the most important thing to me in a headphone. In direct comparison the HD600 has a much better FR without these peaks (but of course the soundstage is not as good and its not as transparent as the HD800). Apparently people have tried some mods to address the HD800 peakiness but I’ve not looked into it yet. I can’t see myself ever buying a pair unless this problem can be solved. Also from what I have heard, - some examples are worse than others, so its a bit of a lottery buying one anyway. Anyway, will post up when I've adjusted my HE500 a bit. Cheers, Colin Hi, Colin Thanks for your interesting observations. Of course, we all differ in our individual perceptions of FR and SQ. All things being equal (an impossibility IMHO, because of source variables, etc.), this is further complicated by our individual expectations as well as type of music we each prefer listening to -- genre, style, etc... As a matter of fact, I also find that my own perception of headphone attributes varies at different times of the day. Adding to the equation the adjustments our ears make, after several minutes of listening to the same pair of headphones, complicates our judgment even further. Hence, IMHO, ideally one should spend some time listening to a particular pair of seemingly attractive headphones at different times of day, before deciding whether they are desirable enough to be declared a 'winner' pair for that particular period of auditioning. Unfortunately, it is not always easy to do this, especially for people who have no easy access to trying before buying. For this reason, however, this difficulty actually offers some of us the opportunities for locating some reasonably priced used headphones, being offered by disappointed listeners on eBay or other similar sites. Also, another variable is the length of time the phones have spent burning-in. IMHO this is a rather important one. My HE-500s have been burning-in for about 190 hours, and already show some smoothing out of the HF. I intend to have them go for a total of at least 400 hours. Many used headphones offered, have never reached this total. Some of the demonstrators at shows may have indeed accumulated such mileage, however, the auditioning circumstances are never ideal, and one can only get a taste of the attributes in these shows because of variables in source material, amplifiers, interconnects, etc. I find it interesting that in the case of the HE-500s, our tastes in SQ are in some agreement to a certain extent. I have been driving mine with the Horizon amp, and am very pleased. Haven't yet tried my Neco Bossfet amp with them. Being a SS amp, the latter should have perhaps a more pronounced high end, though Neco claims that because of its MossFet output, it is somewhat tube-like sounding. So,,,, even though I very much love the HE-500s, the possibilities are indeed endless, therefore I am going to wait and reserve judgment at least until after the 400 hour break-in period. I will also be very much interested to read your further impressions of the HE-500 after you have done your adjustments, and perhaps lived with them for awhile. Cheers! Israel Sent from my iPad
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Oct 20, 2012 12:17:58 GMT
I resurrected my old modded CK-2 HA yesterday when I received a new pair HE-500's. and the old CK-2 seems to drive them quite well too. Been listening to the HE-500, on and off, since yesterday and must admit they are quite nice. To my view they remind me of the stax type sound. Not quite as resolving in the highs but better bass. My view of the Stax HP's are from old Lambda's and Koss esp-950's Lanbda's Yes, low bias ,bought new, 20 years ago and still have them. The HE-500's do seem to be very dependent on the amp that's driving them. At the GTG today, we tried a SCHA but seemed to have difficulty in driving the HE's, though, the SCHA]'s output was setup for 120 Ohm HP's. We then tried them with a Marantz pre (think it was an SA or something) and that brought them to life. Still running in the HP's at present so will update later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 2:48:18 GMT
HifiMAN HE-500 The attached graph makes me wonder what those who find them too bright sounding, are using for source and amplification. I am not surprised they found the need to use what appears to be a low capacitance silver content cable. Alex Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 15:04:13 GMT
Personally, i can not see how these HP`s can possibly be perceived as sounding bright, compared to the Senn HD800`s and to a lesser extent the Grado PS1000`s, they are to my ears, positively dull in the top end department.
Just shows how much our ears differ from each other regarding SQ.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 17:35:37 GMT
<clip> Just shows how much our ears differ from each other regarding SQ. Mick. Couldn't agree with you more on that, Mick! I, for myself, was expecting to lose some of my ability to hear high frequencies as I age. The general trend is that aging brings about a keener perception of lower frequencies at the expense of the higher end, especially pronounced among males. Of course, there are many exceptions, and, for me, it has not been the case exactly. In a weird way, while my hearing has considerably extended into the lower end of the spectrum, I can still hear rather well at the higher end. In all humility, this does not make me a better judge of headphone SQ at all! Being that headphone listening is such a private way of enjoying music, I do not consider this an asset. I do, however, strive to find the kind of gear that suits MY INDIVIDUAL PECULIAR hearing aberrations, hence they don't totally match someone else's. To my ears, while not excessively, the HE-500, especially with the stock silver cable, at first listening, sounded a bit peaky at the high end. After recabling with the OFC 4x24 Cardas cable, and about 240 hours of burning-in, to my ears, the EQ curve is much smoother. As I said in another post, I intend to keep them burning-in for at least another 160 or so. While there are similarities among us, there indeed are many important differences. VIVE LA DIFFERENCE! Cheers! Israel Sent from my iPad
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 21:31:18 GMT
Personally, i can not see how these HP`s can possibly be perceived as sounding bright, compared to the Senn HD800`s and to a lesser extent the Grado PS1000`s, they are to my ears, positively dull in the top end department. Just shows how much our ears differ from each other regarding SQ. Mick. Hi Mick I heard Allan Pagan's pair twice on the weekend. Yesterday I drove them from my Class A HA/preamp using an output resistance of approx. 18 ohms. They were very nice indeed, BUT they sure don't sparkle at the top end. The area aound 12kHZ is what gives Stax that seductive sound with female voices, but these drop dramatically at 10KHZ, and even before that are a little down. If they fixed up that area a bit they would sound great, not just very good.That sudden drop from 10KHZ is evident in the graph. Both Allan and myself were in agreement here.They fell flat in the 01:00 to 01:04 section of "Yello-Bostich (Reflected) which should sound quite 3D sounding, for an example. Any perceived brightness issues with the HiFiMAN 500 are highly unlikely to be due to the headphones themselves. The low capacitance silver cable and the interaction with the amplifier used perhaps ? Kind Regards Alex
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Post by pagan on Oct 21, 2012 21:34:13 GMT
I took the HE's over to sandyj's place yesterday to see if his Class A HA was able to resolve more of the high frequencies I thought the HP's were missing through my system. Alex also adjusted the output impedance of the amp too suite. So armed with a track I know quite well< I was trying to hear the high frequencies that my electrostatics would resolve with ease. Hmm was there but so recessed. The HE's have very nice bass and mids but the high frequency's are so recessed that the soundstage is missing and voices seem flat, no emotion.
Sandyk's post was from listening to, and then conversations of the HE's yesterday.
To put this in context, my comparison was with reference to my electrostatics. These are very good HP's and walk all over my DT880 250 Ohm hp's.
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