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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 10:08:09 GMT
I’m not that keen on female vocalists in rock groups. I don’t exactly know why but I guess it could be the aggressiveness of the music with its extreme emotional content just doesn’t fit that well (for me in the genre) However, Introitus seem to get a good balance between the lyrical nature of the female vocalist and the aggressiveness and virtuosity of the band. The sound of the band is well captured on this recording and I must say, I really enjoy the enhancements that the D2000 bring in particular to the bass!! Track 1 – The Hand that Feeds You Ostinato with a buzzing synth ostinato pattern and a sweeping synth melody over the top played with a slowed down version of the same tune behind it before the rhythm section come in with a solid rock beat. A change of key takes us to an arpeggio section and back to the original key and the vocalist sings over the bubbling synth sounds. She moves in the stereo image, answering her opening vocal on the left. Then the ‘hook’ starting with ‘Stop’ and then a re-orchestrated version of a the verse with a synth vocal part in the back before a return to the hook. There is a nice guitar riff on the right hand track which is lower in the mix!! Then a strange kind of lost section with some strange harmonies. Another change of key to an organ and acoustic guitar and flute section. It’s modal and quite a beautiful passage after the heavy rock type opening. The flute player could be better, but it suits the music I guess. I love the sweeping syths behind it and the mellotrone. I love mellotrons. Big guitar solo with bass, synth and drums in background. This guy is a good guitar player and really shapes the solo well. Back to the bubbling synths and vocals. This time with a bass pedal. The vocals are answered by a synth and back to the hook but this time with harmonised vocals as an echo. Into another instrumental section with a bass pedal. This reminds me of Deep Purple. Gutars repeat a figure and the synth joins in. The passage kind of builds, and suddenly stops for another extended guitar solo. Drums, bass, organ as backing. Very open scoring in contrast to the thick stuff before. A laid back section – almost a reflective part where the synth plays an ostinato, this time in the top and the vocals float in, wordless. A dreamy passage. Based on two chords only and later extended. The girl singing has quite a wide range and she’s multi-tracked herself. Then a march like snare with a unison melody on synths and an organ sustaining chords in the background. The choice of chords is unusual, before it launches into a rock like section led by synth sounds with a grungy guitar chugging away. This is the kind of stuff I love playing myself. A synth solo answered by Hammond organ. This section ends with an arpeggio section with some lovely sequences. The speed halves and it becomes very dramatic with a soaring synth before the vocalist sings her final conclusion, divided into two, split in the stereo image. Before the drone note is held under the final (major) chord and left to fade. A brilliant track of 14 minutes which just doesn’t feel like 14 minutes when you hear the delicious sounds that they produce and the quality of the recording. I love the track ‘Like Always’. A beautifully rendered song. This album is worth a listen and now, if you get it, you can follow my notes to see if you can spot what a pedal is or an ostinato!!!! www.amazon.co.uk/Elements/dp/B004YHID2C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341137318&sr=8-1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 10:22:49 GMT
Track 2 – Like Always This is a gorgeous song. It starts with a very deep rumble, a couple of high piano chords and then a big power chord. If you listen carefully, there is an inverted pedal in the synth. (Right at the top, high up – easily overlooked; like a scream) Big powerful opening which fades away to flute and piano folk like melody. Verse 1 ends with a gorgeous sequence, where it goes from the major key to minor (or modal actually) and it’s just ….. emotional. A beautiful synth pad sound with a mellow guitar while she sings, ‘If I had only one more day, I would spend it with you.’ Verse 2 with piano only. Some power chords with the inverted pedal into verse 3 with some solid drum and bass with an acoustic guitar strumming and synth pad sounds. Back to the chorus but fully orchestrated. I LOVE the Hammond chords behind this. Verse 3 with stronger synth pad sounds and piano and that link again with the inverted pedal and synth solo. Bass guitar solo!!!! A lovely soaring synth solo with the band – he’s playing the melody. Second synth takes over the lead into a higher pitch and then the guitar screams out the next solo. The guitar player really judges the ‘shaping’ of his solos well. This is an extended solo which starts to sound more optimistic.
The solo comes to an end, not on the tonic chord with a fat bass held note. You get the impression the song hasn’t finished.
Vocalist returns with that lovely verse and hook with overdubbed vocals for harmony. Final line, 'If I had one more day, I would walk in the sun with you' accompanied by piano.
This is a lovely song. Mellow. Well played rock that gets to me every time I hear it. If I had to play this live, I’d get myself in a state!!!! (That sometimes happens – yeah – shit happens!!! Solid, well played Rock song.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 10:36:21 GMT
Track 3 - Wind
Acoustic guitar playing with synthesised wind sounds and a mellotron playing a flute melody. A piccolo sound as well so it's a trio. Very apt after the emotion of the track before.
This leads to:
Track 4/5 - Restless
High piano ostinato. Power chords from the band before they launch into a riff and then a positively Emerson, Lake and Palmer section. If you hear it and know Emerson, Lake and Palmer, you'll recognise the style.
A soaring moog type sound followed by a soaring guitar and very low bass grunts.
Some tricky rhythmic stuff hear. To play this, you have to really concentrate - it's difficult. Then after a short piano section, back to more normal type chords with vocals over the top and mellotron.
Back to the rhythmic stuff on low piano and a lovely synth passage accompanied by Hammond. A really catch riff played by everyone and then the big synth solo. I love the Hammond screeches. They are playing in two time signatures at points. Listen to the drums .......
It relaxes into some smoother chords led by synth produced flute sounds.
The next section sounds like 'Focus' of old. A brilliant group way back when. Guitar led. The chord sequence is almost like Focus from their 'yodelling album!!!
The music pauses for a string/synth chord and some bubbling sounds and becomes more dark, ready for the wordless vocals. She changes from 'ooooh' to 'aaaah' which brightens up the sound and an echo of what she is singing.
Back to piano. (Early Emerson sound again) This reminds me of ELP's first album before launching back into a riff.
Well, it is called 'Restless'.
I get strong reminders of ELP in this piece.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 10:50:34 GMT
Track 6 - Fire
Starts with a match and a ...... fire. I'd love this in binaural.
A chord in the background while the fire builds and a deeeeep bass melody.
Track 7 - Dreamscape
A big 'power' opening. Reminds me of King Crimson's first album. Fades away to vocals. It's in 7 time if you count. This is a 10 minute track.
It has some strange chords and then a big bass riff for verse 2. Still in 7. I like the way this just keeps changing key. It seems so free and really moves forwards.
Big hook where it goes into 4.
Back into 7 with the riff. Ostinatos going on above and those weird key changes. Some lovely orchestration going on behind the vocals.
An ELP section again - more like Tarkus!!
Then some electronic noises and into the dream. 'Feel so strange, like I'm under water'. This is almost like its drug induced. Floaty and strange. The vocalist is describing what she is seeing around her. The chords move with her description. Very free feeling. She told that 'it's only a dream and she has to go ......'
The riff returns in 7 with a set of synth noises swooping around and a synth solo. Interesting that the drums are verging on playing in 4 while the band are in 7 at some points. It builds and the guitar produces some roars while the synth gets more and more agitated and the drummer goes into a spasm of repeated bass drum thumps and then the guitar soars away in4 time rock. There also a synth buzzing away with him.
Sudden change of key for the vocals with piano. She's 'killed the beast' and is told that she's done 'good'. Very dramatic.
Guitar and synth in unison playing the melody that she sang and she finishes with a final statement before the drums go ballistic for the final chord.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 11:10:22 GMT
Track 8 - Water
Synths with some dark booms and bubbling. Wave sounds. Almost Pink Flyd like. Some phasing effects and sparkles on glockenspiel. A deep bass growling on a C. There is actually a gentle melody on the glock. It's quite quiet and back in the mix but easily spotted on headphones if you listen.
Track 9 - Soulprint
Flute and piano. (Real flute) Double bass grunts and strings. This is a 16 minute track.
A cello solo with string quartet (or trio) and piano. Piano doubles the melody. The passage builds in dynamic and texture. It's modal so kind of sounds old.
Wind sounds and rumbles before electric drums and a thudding electronic bass under the vocals with an inverted pedal in the strings. See if you can hear the bass notes with your headphones - it's low!!!!
Marching, grunge like guitar. (I think it's detuned) Wailing guitar added to the mix in the background. Lovely thick texture with the strings and a counter melody on the cello. Even an oboe back there!!!
This is quite heavy and sad music. (Heavy metal ABBA?)
It goes into a major key, so it brightens a little before returning to the minor.
Electronic and acoustic drums link to a grungy guitar in a new key. Flute solo over the top. (On synth) Answered by mellotron and synth. This is a thick sounding texture here and good headphones really get you inside what is happening before the screaming guitars enter. Some eerie chord sequences while they scream away. They clear for the next wordless vocal section, where she is back in the mix, wailing away over this grungy backing.
The music fades away to a cello solo with organ and strings. It plays this folksy type melody which is kind of resigned. It continues with drums bass, grungy guitar, hammond and flute. Change of key as it starts to feel as though it getting to the end, almost driven there by its own melody. Synth swoops in as it builds. Flute, Cello and Synth play the melody in unison.
Vocals in chorus with the thudding bass, 'Let me sing for you, sing you to sleep' ..... referring to the death of someone. (I think, mother)
So 'death' is part of the title of the album .... 'Elements'
The album fades out to waves, fire, wind.
The album gets to me every time I hear it.
This is well thought out and beautifully performed. It's really worth listening to.
If you have it, you can follow what I've written perhaps!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 12:42:02 GMT
I just listened to The Hand that Feeds You on you tube while following your notes. (I'd never heard of them before) Firstly I agree with you on female singers, unfortunately I go further and am VERY difficult to please on female vocalists, therefore liking very few. Introitus pass the cj test with flying colours, I do like her voice and it integrates well. A great find and superb listening notes, another one for the buy list By the way, there is Serbian band also called Introitus, unless you're into durgy, droney, growelling speed metal, don't go there!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 12:46:07 GMT
Ian, Sincerely, thanks for these posts . I know nothing of Oppi-whatsits and minor and major keys (I'm ashamed to say ) - it's all double Dutch to me (sorry Frans ) but I'm tempted to invest purely as an education/learning exercise, to walk my way gently through it (if 'gently' is the right word, given the genre ) and see if I can get an idea of what you're talking about. Could be interesting, might even be fun and I might actually learn something from it. You don't really need to understand music to enjoy it do you? - hope not or I've got a real problem ;D ;D . How about that for a topic for a thread? (not me having a problem - no debate - but whether understanding everything that's going on is necessary to get the most out of music) Sorry for the ramble . Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 13:06:53 GMT
Hi you two,
Chris, this album gets to me every time. An emotional roller coaster. It's just so well thought out overall as a total composition. It would have been so easy to write songs about the elements, but this links the elements to the death on the last song.
Dave, I'm never too sure how much technical stuff to write but my feelings are that if people want to know what something is, I can easily explain it.
Sometimes with music, it can be enjoyable to follow sleeve like notes to get some kind of insight and then listen free from the notes later. It can help the 'understanding' of what's going on and why composers make certain choices.
If this type of music isn't your cup of tea, I could always pick some classics!
It just might widen peoples' understanding I guess and so enhance their listening.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 13:52:25 GMT
Too late Chris....... I got it and it is pure crap!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 13:59:51 GMT
Dave,
Ostinato - something that repeats over and over again. (Like Tubular Bells opening) Riff - a rock term. A melody that repeats over and over (normally in the bass) Pedal - a low note held for a long time and sometimes can kind of clash with the rest. Inverted pedal - a high note held for a long time. Major - uses the notes doh reh meh fah soh lah te doh. Normally happy sounding or reflective if it's slow music. Frere Jaque is in a major key. = doh ray meh doh, doh ray meh doh. Eastenders is major. Minor - Doh ray Mooh fah soh lah te doh. More moody soundning. Sad if it's slow. The tune - the Charlie Chaplin tune is minor or tubular bells, or the funeral march. Key tells you what note doh is. The key of G means that doh is G. Very often, musicians will change key in the middle of the piece to add interest.
That might help.
What stuff do you listen to Dave? I only chose this album to do because it will appeal to Progressive Rock guys and is a good intro to people who don't like rock. It has some really beautiful moments and some virtuoso playing that sounds so easy when they do it, but believe me, some of what they're doing is technically very difficult to play.
Progressive rock in particular, uses elements very close to classical music except they are working in electronics. The emotional content is way higher than pop music and some of the topics that they're about, while not always immediately apparent can be quite serious.
This album as a whole points towards a mother passing away and the elements is what she returns to I guess. Hence the title and the soundscapes and references to water, wind, waves.
A soundscape is when a musician collects sounds on a sampler or whatever and mixes them together to form a musical like picture. Pink Floyd did a lot in that area in the 70's.
Their album, 'Dark Side of the Moon' refers to madness in different forms.... Dark side of the moon. Dark side = human nature. Moon = Lunacy.
However, they were very clever in that the lyrics could be taken in a different way.
For intance - 'The lunatic is on the grass' is one of the lyrics with a man kind of laughing in the background. It refers to a film clip of Ronald Reagan (and other leaders) standing outside the White House on the grass......
Another from the same album, 'For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died.'
So you see, although it is rock music and has the basics of what many older people don't like, the emotion contained inside can be quite striking once you understand the genre a bit more.
The same goes for orchestral music. For instance, once you understand Mahler's fear of death, his Jewishness, his early memories of army marching bands, then you can hear exactly where his music and the terror inside it comes from.
Same for all good music, whether jazz, rock, pop, orchestral. I just wish that people didn't put themselves into a 'style box' and be more open to music .... whatever.
Talking to Barry recently just shows how open these guys are to any music. In order to do his job, Barry would need to fully sympathise with and understand the genre of the music that he is recording in order to be able to portray it so well. He needs to have a wide musical knowledge as well as technical knowledge in order to communicate with the different demands of each audience.
Unfortunately, you do get technos who really know nothing about music. I was a victim of some of those in the 70's and did discuss it with Barry actually. He knew exactly what I was talking about. You also get Musos (like me) who are technically dim, so I have to rely (like so many musicians) on the quality of the engineer and I have to trust their judgement. However, if they don't have empathy with the music or understand it, then the two never really work together at all well and was the cause of me getting into many a punch up out of frustration when I was younger. People who should have known how to do it, should have been able to produce a sound that I felt I was hearing live but they couldn't, so the music suffered.
Generally, I find progressive rock people (Musicians or Engineers) are far more open to other genres than the other way around, because Prog rock contains a wide and diverse collection of idioms within it.
However, one thing that is mostly inside prog rock is a form of romanticism, taken again, from the classical world.
I find it quite interesting to dissect it since it offers me ideas. However, you are quite typical in that most listen for pleasure and don't pull stuff apart. For me, it's a habit.
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 1, 2012 14:09:05 GMT
Hmm, half sister of Frank Zappa? I only like Like Always ................
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 14:29:46 GMT
Who me? ;D 'Like Always' is a gorgeous song. I love that one. It's a bit more middle of the road, Chong I guess. I don't think you're fond of prog rock anyway are you? I have you down as a synth classics man, orchestral and some light pop? ooh and folk? I think prog rock is a very western thing since it has its roots in American rock and Western classical music and is very distinct from heavy metal which took off big time in Japan. Probably 'cos the kids there wanted to upset their parents!!!! There is a Chinese lady I love in world rock ... Sa Ding Ding. I think her stuff is great. Can't get a lot of it in this part of the world though. I think just two albums are available. I think she's Tibetan/Chinese. A mountain person. She needs more publicity in the west!!! Zappa is more hit and miss for me. Some of his stuff is stunning. However, he kind of had crazy moments where I just can't connect. It becomes just too American for me and his humour gets totally out of control. There is quite a difference between American and British people in outlook. I know that many British people get offended by what is sometimes referred to as an 'American' attitude and I also know that it's easy to be misunderstood as I found when I upset Israel once without even knowing what I'd done. So there is a kind of language/attitude difference which I guess could be even harder for people from the East? Prog rock could be one of them? One I do like very much by Zappa is 'One Size Fits All'. It is an amazing feat; especially when you look at how they had to record in those days. Absolutely stunning album. IT is also interesting to hear orchestral transcriptions of Zappa's music. It's then when you realise just how close his music is to 20th century orchestral but it uses loud electronic instruments which puts orchestral type people off. 'Yellow Shark' is interesting where the orchestra play his music but scored for a different type of band completely. Zappa's compositions suddenly sound like 20th century serious composers!! I'm surprised you only like one song from this album though. I thought it was pretty accessible.
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 2, 2012 0:11:23 GMT
The only females I remember in rock music - Heart? Chrissy Hynde of Pretenders? There must be someone else.
Then I got off onto bands like Elastica and Le Tigre and they quickly filled the feminine void. They're more primitive, but when not given an equal chance to evolve, I'll take primitive over contrived.
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 2, 2012 0:35:51 GMT
Who me? ;D Heh, heh, heh ............ How can you be a half sister unless you are turning gay or changing sex now? She obviously .............. I don't think you're fond of prog rock anyway are you? I have you down as a synth classics man, orchestral and some light pop? ooh and folk? In fact, I like prog rock. But progressive within can also have many variations. I like Pink Floyd progressive most follow by Jethro Tull, The Who Tommy style, Yes and Beach Boys Pet Sounds last. In fact, I recently acquire Pet Sounds hirez. As I had stated again and again, I like all genres except death metal and rap. Of course, Madonna and Lady Gaga, I will say I can listen to but I wouldn't specifically go out to buy their albums. Frank Zappa I just have a collector double LP (I think) to make a statement I know them and his Mother of Inventtion. Nope, I don't have any of Mother of Invention although I'm looking out for his most famous album. Argghhh, I have forgotten that Mother of Invention title. Can you help me? I think prog rock is a very western thing since it has its roots in American rock and Western classical music and is very distinct from heavy metal which took off big time in Japan. In fact, I can say it's very UK as the most famous bands are from there. Progressive anything to do with a mix of neo classical, theme, concept and instrumental rock all can be lumped into it. There is a Chinese lady I love in world rock ... Sa Ding Ding. I think her stuff is great. Can't get a lot of it in this part of the world though. I think just two albums are available. I think she's Tibetan/Chinese. A mountain person. She needs more publicity in the west!!! In fact, those samples that you posted here on her is already very commercial music of the Tibetan/Chinese kind. Now I like "original" music and before I like those commercial ones. How age has mellowed us. Zappa is more hit and miss for me. Some of his stuff is stunning. However, he kind of had crazy moments where I just can't connect. It becomes just too American for me and his humour gets totally out of control. That's what I always refer to as the free wheeling no limits and boundaries American ways. I love that way as I can always be like Star Trek famous theme mode and not held down by my lacking. I don't like their policies and politics though as there are many killed by their freewheeling actions without much considerations for others. The American people in general I like. Here we have Barry, a character of the American style that I like and that I'm referring to. Not M characters though. Perhaps, Barry being involved in so many international musical projects and mixing with many international characters already have a very international outlook. There is quite a difference between American and British people in outlook. I know that many British people get offended by what is sometimes referred to as an 'American' attitude and I also know that it's easy to be misunderstood as I found when I upset Israel once without even knowing what I'd done. So there is a kind of language/attitude difference which I guess could be even harder for people from the East? Prog rock could be one of them? Nope, I don't have that "eastern" outlook on life and in general as in fact, I'm very international as I had stated many a times. Why? I had worked and studied to have to breath the best of East-West after being "thrown" into many cultural envrionments. Don't believe me, try an important meeting with a mix of all these characters. The UK Mind Your Language TV show is a very good example in a mocking and pleasantly laughable way. I'm surprised you only like one song from this album though. I thought it was pretty accessible. Oh, that was based on the cut-off samples you had directed us to. The same for hifi, we just cannot judge a thing until we have lived with it for a time. I can change just like that after having listen to the album for some time. Same for Pink Floyd DSOTM. Initially for hifi, I found that it was crap to me and I didn't know why hifi people like it. But after listening for many times, I now have the Mofi CD, the SACD but missed out on the collector Mofi LP and EMI 30th Anni LP. I had forgotten again, damn it! Same for The Wall.
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 2, 2012 0:49:46 GMT
The only females I remember in rock music - Heart? Chrissy Hynde of Pretenders? There must be someone else. There are lots of them, man! Let me name some insitu off my just woke up brain. 1) Joan Jett 2) Osbourne 3) Paramore 4) Bangles 5) Motels 6) Suzie Quattro 7) Joan Armastrading 8) Go-Go 9) Pat Benator 10) Stevie Nicks 11) Sheryl Crow 12) The B-52s There you go. Excuse me as I could have got some part of names missed out or mispelled.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 4:51:30 GMT
Is it 'Hot Rats'?
I have to be choosy about which Zappa I can take. They can be a bit 'nasty' in the humour sometimes and the subject matter can be very distasteful. With him, anything goes.
'One Size Fits All' is one of his best imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 6:51:28 GMT
The only females I remember in rock music - Heart? Chrissy Hynde of Pretenders? There must be someone else. Then I got off onto bands like Elastica and Le Tigre and they quickly filled the feminine void. They're more primitive, but when not given an equal chance to evolve, I'll take primitive over contrived. ;D There aren't that many, Dale. I must admit, I find it hard to accept women 'rock' singers; especially when they start screaming all over the place!! With Introitus (and as Chris says, be careful - there is a rather 'nasty' version somewhere else. I made that mistake), her voice seems to blend well with the band and suits the style of their music. The playing itself sounds effortless but some of the quick solos flung in there are technically quite difficult to play. I also like this album as a 'whole' album. It holds together really well. Not so keen on the other one that they did but this one is a cracker. (If you like the style anyway)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 6:57:04 GMT
The only females I remember in rock music - Heart? Chrissy Hynde of Pretenders? There must be someone else. There are lots of them, man! Let me name some insitu off my just woke up brain. 1) Joan Jett 2) Osbourne 3) Paramore 4) Bangles 5) Motels 6) Suzie Quattro 7) Joan Armastrading 8) Go-Go 9) Pat Benator 10) Stevie Nicks 11) Sheryl Crow 12) The B-52s There you go. Excuse me as I could have got some part of names missed out or mispelled. Lots of female 'pop' singers Chong but not in Prog Rock. Very few. There was a girl group I heard last week that actually I did like. They sang in the film 'Moulin Rouge' - Hey sista go sista ... etc. Voulez Vous Couchez avec Moi? I heard one of their albums which I actually enjoyed!!!!! However, prog rock, screaming women are scarce. For me it just doesn't work. Prog rock is a bit different to Rock. I guess Deep Purple would be called a Rock group (Mainly) as well as Led Zep, King Crimson, but Prog has more to do with composition, extended solos and development of concepts, I guess. Some rock groups kind of border on prog - I think Deep Purple tried with the Concerto, but it's a bit hit and miss as far as prog rock goes imo. ie; not the best. In fact, my own feeling is Deep Purple kind of overstretched themselves with that piece so that it is a bit over indulgent and some of the ideas aren't that well thought out if you consider it as a serios classical piece. The rock element is stronger but at times, it's not integrated well with the orchestra and the switches of styles are a bit 'jarring' to a sensitive muso like me. ;D
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 2, 2012 12:36:05 GMT
Very few women in classic rock/progressive rock. I don't see any reason for that though - the style isn't masculine-specific or oriented like some genres.
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 2, 2012 12:41:38 GMT
Zappa's real original - freak out. Americans don't have the class of Brits, which isn't difficult to figure out. It's a much newer culture, and the concept of refinement is over their heads, at least for the next couple hundred years. We had these marvelous statesmen way back when - today we have the likes of Cass Sunstein and Bush the Younger.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 12:53:58 GMT
Zappa's real original - freak out. Americans don't have the class of Brits, which isn't difficult to figure out. It's a much newer culture, and the concept of refinement is over their heads, at least for the next couple hundred years. We had these marvelous statesmen way back when - today we have the likes of Cass Sunstein and Bush the Younger. ;D I think the Americans are misunderstood. There are aspects that many find difficult to get, but then again, it's the same with the British. They have an odd sense of humour really and are terrible p*ss takers. American humour is quite different I think. Zappa seemed to go nuts at one stage of his career and the humour got way out of control. However, I also think he was a musical innovator. I kind of fight with his music/humour in that I am attracted to the music and then feel shoved away by the humour. Some of his live outbursts were unbelievable. Then again, you get an outwardly scary American like Alice Cooper who in reality is such a lovely guy who loves his golf and leads a very middle class type of life. There are SO many facets to America and it's not really fair to tar all Americans with the same brush. There's no doubt that our rock/pop/jazz has come from there and is dominant in most of the world. Classical, tradition types of music not so much until you get to the Nationalists and then the Americans appear on the scene big time. I adored my time in USA and the touring but if I'm honest, it came as a kind of relief to be back home with our tiny roads, odd people and our miniature homes. I do feel sad when I see very different cultures trying emulate American rock/pop music though. It seems to dominate the world over and everyone is attracted to the styles eminating from good old USA.
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 3, 2012 1:19:38 GMT
Is it 'Hot Rats'? I have to be choosy about which Zappa I can take. They can be a bit 'nasty' in the humour sometimes and the subject matter can be very distasteful. With him, anything goes. 'One Size Fits All' is one of his best imo. I dig and dig and found the article. It was a tough fight between: 1) Only In It For The Money 2) Hot Rats 3) Uncle Meat The decision went to Uncle Meat! Now to the market! Hey, I mean to the Record shop or e-bay later. Yup, just one to know Mother of Inventions at their best and not all 3.
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
Posts: 5,689
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 3, 2012 1:38:36 GMT
Samples for those interested:
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 3, 2012 1:43:02 GMT
There are SO many facets to America and it's not really fair to tar all Americans with the same brush. I would. I've hung out with the Beverly Hills crowd, the engineers and intellectuals in L.A. generally, the Venice Beach crowd, the Kent Staters, the Klan sympathizers in SE Tennessee, the moonshiners in West Virginia, Southern Cal's historical revisionist/nationalist contingent, the Militia of Montana, Bo Gritz's (Rambo's) group, Bob Hoffman's weightlifters, the grrrls of Riot Grrrl in the NW states, the Mensa folks, quite a few others - all hillbillies basically. There's no doubt that our rock/pop/jazz has come from there and is dominant in most of the world. By far the best things I've experienced in pop were Alan Freed's r&b promos (mostly originating in New Orleans), the British Invasion of 1964, the Glamrock movement of circa 1971 onward, punk and disco (the minority-dominated disco that was quashed), New Wave circa 1980 onward, Riot Grrrl and related indie recording circa 1990 onward. These were breakthrough events that swept away old cobwebs and brought great new energies to pop music. Discussing early 1980's new wave with close friends in L.A., much of that British, we agree that that music, especially in its timeframe, was pure magic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2012 6:53:00 GMT
I do find Zappa hit and miss. My favourite is One Size:
This is the whole album as well!!!
There are passages that even border on what is called 'Sprechgesang' which is a half speech and half sung type of thing. (at 5'28" and 8'06" in octaves!!) Lovely use of electronics and 'side' comments. It always makes me laugh when they sing at the beginning about aliens landing and someone shouts ... 'Park it.... Park it .....'
The angular melody at the start of this is quite amazing and actually works imo as a melody!! I also think that Zappa himself is much more focused and the guitar solos are better thought out. Not just a random succession of notes, sometimes a bit crudely played!!
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