Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 15:40:01 GMT
A friend of mine swears by the V6 and he works with headphones so I take a lot of notice of him normally. When I told him that I have the 7506 which is 'supposed' to be the same headphone, he disagreed. I also told him that I wasn't that fussed about it given the sharp top end. He then went on to say that there was a subtle difference between the V6 and 7506. He said that the bass was slightly ramped in the V7506 and the treble was subjectively smoother in the V6 by comparison. He felt that the V6 has the edge. He also reminded me that these headphones are for finding faults not just musical pleasure. (ie the sound shaped to be accurate rather than pleasing to the ear for home use) He's bought another 10 V6's and is going to let me have one to compare. He also reminded me - they are more like a 'pro' tool than a hi fi headphone. He's right there and that's exactly what I find with the 7506. It points out every flaw without doubt. It certainly doesn't polish your music. Anyway, Dave Rat, who is also in the business did a maniac headphone comparison which is very interesting. Not scientific, exactly but he just boshed through a load of his headphones to compare, using pink noise. His findings are interesting but he did find differences between the V6 and 7506 on his analyser. The very ramped bass that my friend described!! The Sonys are on Part 2, but Dave did a series of them, one after the other here: This is part 1. Part 2 has the Sonys. After leaving my 7506's in the cupboard on the end of a radio for months, I felt that they had mellowed. That bass really has shown itself very low down actually - almost sub-woofer in depth. The V6 goes slightly lower in FR and also higher. 7506 - 10 - 20,000 V6 - 5 - 30,000 They use different magnets too. The rest is the same; although V6 is rated at 64 ohms (I think it is) and the MDR 7506 at 24 ohms. So not EXACTLY the same although they look like the same headphone and Headfi guys all seem to agree with each other (baa baaaaa) ;D that they are the same headphone. The V6 supposedly is flatter and is not as grainy. As soon as I get one, I'll compare. However, it DOES sell at a much better price than the MDR 7506. www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-MDR-V6-Headphones-Wired-Digital/dp/B00001WRSJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338823392&sr=8-1£56 is really not a bad price for what you get. They are more for monitoring purposes (not monitoring performances like the DT150 which is a lot more mellow and can be worn for a long time and played loud) so they are like lasers but that is a good price for the sound, if it is like the 7506 and slightly better too. Has anyone here got the V6? As soon as I get one from my mate, I'll put it up against the 7506 just to see if I can hear anything different, but in the meantime - if it is the same headphone, it sells a lot cheaper. (Probably because I'm not sure they're made any more) However, a good headphone is a good headphone!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 19:18:09 GMT
The guy is quite positive about the D2000. The W5000 and AD700 were lacking here and there and is exactly what I found too. These are off my wish list. For auditioning only K550 (I expect a less bassy D2000 which I would welcome), HD700 (just to hear what it's all about) and some ortho's remain that have peaked my interest. That Rat (sorry Dave Rat) is looking for a 'tool' headphone to be used at high levels and not hifi, but I like the way he handles it. Not very 'professional' but I figure anything upto 5kHz is pretty accurate and seems to coincide with graphs already out there. Frequency range tells something but doesn't show the whole picture. The V6/7506 is a tool that doesn't reproduce sounds above 12kHz and is made for higher SPL monitoring nor are extended highs (above 10kHz) desired for the intended purpose (monitoring) as this info only distracts in this case, for Hifi where it is lacking extension. The impedance is the same as far as I can tell. mechanically they are not the same drivers. graphs do show some differences as well, although not very noteworthy: graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2361&graphID[]=1513Sony is a MASTER in quoting extreme frequency ranges. They can do so for one simple reason... they don't supply the 'cut-off' points. They appear to be set at -20dB (judging from graphs out there) This way they can safely state: 10-20kHz without being a liar yet their -3dB data would be: 40Hz - 12kHz
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 20:57:39 GMT
Hi Frans,
Dave the Rat is a character and he has little respect for headphones really seeing the way he chucks them about. Just shoving a mic between the driver and one of your ears is quite funny but I found it interesting since you get an instant picture comparatively and the funny thing was that the headphones I know, seemed to fit the picture he was getting on the graph.
Interesting that the ATH700 showed not going too deep which is what I hear as well as the grados. I thought what he did with the Ipod earbuds hilarious - he actually got a measurement!!
In the end, he kind of rejected the Sonys on the grounds that they ran out of steam in the deep bass and went into distortion whereas the Denons held up. He wasn't too familiar with the D2000 and got a surprise.
The weird thing about the Sony 7506 is that they give the impression of having a very low whack in the bass and also being very 'toppy' in spite of being limited in frequency extension up there. I must admit, they don't seem to be emphasised anywhere but feel as though there's an upward slope from bottom to top with a bass boost.
My UK friend uses them to monitor (which surprised me). He likes the HD25 but needs more clarity (he says in the top)
I find the 7506 a strange headphone in that you sometimes feel that it's way too sibilant and then on another recording, it can be unbelievably good. Orchestral sounds tonally correct as well, whereas many other headphones show how skewed they are when playing orchestral stuff.
I have seen some live EE's going around with Sonys on their heads and they reveal a lot for sure, but moreso recording faults rather than play music. That's what I find odd about them - they seem very accurate tonally, and yet musically they can be just clinical I guess. You'd think that an accurate (ish) tonal response would produce good music wouldn't you?
The other funny thing is that the 7506 kind of bears a resemblance to the sound of the D2000 with a stronger sounding mid treble. (I think it is) The D2000 also has a bass bloom in comparison.
The 7506 also goes loud but doesn't give the bloom on mens' voices that you often get on headphones at louder volume.
I find the 7506 a curious headphone. Not unpleasant but very different to anything else that I have and my mate reckons the V6 is a tad smoother which is kind of what the Headroom FR response graph shows when you put the two together. If you line the V6 bass end with the 7506, the line crosses over the 7506 in the middle, so although they follow each other, there are actually differences.
Interestingly, I checked the K701 graph and that hits the 'ideal' green line in the treble at the same place as the 7506, (12KHz) and then drops away rapidly. Yet, it sounds so toppy as well. The Denons have quite a big 'suck out' at about 2.5 KHz, so that is what I probably detect with voices being slightly veiled on them sometimes.
Like the Rat though, I must admit, the D2000 is excellent.
I've always assumed like the Headfi people that the 7506 was a V6 but there are slight alterations in that the drivers have a different type of magnet. The 7506 magnet is lighter and more powerful so you'd expect a quicker response plus the slight difference in impedance.
I'll put them side by side just to see if I can hear any differences. Interesting that the Horizon seems to make the 7506 bloom with an amazing slam in the deep bass!! (at 120 ohms output imp)
I can't make my mind up about the Sonys tbh. There are some absolutely excellent things about it as well as this laser type sound that can be as thrilling as it can be annoying!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 22:12:08 GMT
I had the same (sortof) with the K500. They excell in some things like voices and piano sounded 'real', everything is very detailed yet never harsh or boomy and very airy, but the lack of high extension and above all lows extension and 'warmth' ultimately killed it for me. Once you know there are some extreme lows in the music and you do not get to hear it (I must be crazy cauz' I am looking forward to hearing it in some music) is a real downer for me. It's like watching a movie and you expect to hear that loud deep 'BOOOOOM' somewhere and some a-hole 'switched of the subs' kind of effect. EQ-íng did make it marginally better (warmer, fuller and with the 16kHz a bit up 'tizzier') but it simply can't reach ultra lows and 'clips'. Going to DT1350 is tonally a short shock (completely different sounding) but both headphones have a very rapid 'getting into the real sound' kind of thing but with DT1350 cymbals crash more real and those lows..... (very small closed cups b.t.w.) absolutely unbelievable (with a bit of EQ-ing at modest listening levels) Makes the D2000 sound like a flabby farting headphone... The D1350 is very forward (like HD280) while the K500 sounds 'balanced' and relaxed, mellow. Overall both are 'real' sounding in a completely different way. The comfort of K500 is phenomenal and the DT1350 ... . Yet, it doesn't get much headtime so why hold on ? The Sony has some traits the DT1350 also has. They are both 'tools' which reveal technicalities and can sound great on well recorded music. Both are not the most musical (like DT990/D2000 are) but with some EQ-ing it get's enjoyable. Differences are the extension to both ends is there in DT1350 and not in the Sony's and it doesn't sound shrill up top. I can understand why techs like a certain headphone and rather don't switch. Simply because what you hear live (at rock concert level) is about the same as you hear with those things on your head playing LOUD so they can get a good feeling of what's coming from the speakers. Hifi is anything but that. For DJ's it's another ball game, they need to hear beats (thumbs) and the lower mids and mids but don't need the ultra highs. Tools....
|
|
|
Post by comfygrados on Jun 5, 2012 0:37:05 GMT
Hey, I'm new and I'm glad this thread is here and active, as I had a question about the MDR-V6's.
I was reading about your filter mods for the Superlux HD681, solderdude, and it got me to thinking that the MDR-V6's are an absolute ideal target for a similar mod. Up until where it drops off at 12 kHz like you pointed out, they're very flat and neutral except for that nasty treble spike which shows up on Headroom's frequency graph as being at about 9kHz.
Do you think you could draw up a filter to make the MDR-V6's treble relatively flat and less ear-piercing? They're 63 ohms cans. I think they would be absolutely perfect closed, isolating monitoring cans with such a filter. If not, how would I go about determining what components I'd need in a self-designed filter? Is there software you use to determine what components you use to make your filters? I'd like to learn how to design these filters myself.
Thanks for any and all help.
|
|
|
Post by comfygrados on Jun 5, 2012 4:21:53 GMT
Pic related. The blue line is what such a filter would ideally approximate. Attachments:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 5:31:14 GMT
I would try to 'tune' the headphone with a multiband equaliser first (like those found in audio programs) The question is whether the problem is caused by the 9kHz peak which is rather low and narrow in comparison with the rather big 3kHz resonance it has but is not evident because of the HRTF Tyll uses. It just looks very flat (like SRH1840) while it simply has a peak of over 12dB in that regeion that resonates as well. It might very well not be the peak at 3kHz in the frequency domain but the ringing of the resonance in that area that gives it the edge. This can't be EQ- ed away, it's a damping problem and can imagine this peak is something that can alter with 'burn in'. My Creative Aurvana Live had the same 3kHz peak and gave the headphone an 'coarse edge' without sounding harsh. It helped but didn't solve the problem. a lot of headphones that appear to be flat on graphs have similar problems. Reducing the 9kHz peak is likely to only increase the impression it's rolled off, but might be wrong (don't have a V6, not one single Sony anyway) the 3kHz can be passively filtered the 9kHz is rather small in amplitude and narrow in bandwidth and might prove more difficult to filter passively. So I would recommend you try (by ear) where the problems are (3kHz or 9kHz) and when you have found an optimal EQ setting post it here and I will see if a filter can be constructed. The 3khz resonance peak can be seen in Tyll's V6 graph: www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRV6.pdflook at the grey 'raw' lines, its what the mic picked up and see the resonance on the 300Hz squarewave and impedance plot. The 9kHz peak can also be seen.
|
|
|
Post by comfygrados on Jun 5, 2012 5:44:35 GMT
OK thanks, that cleared a lot up. I'll see what I can do re: getting a parametric EQ profile for the V6's. I'm intrigued about the HD 661's now. If I make a filter like you did here rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=review&thread=7072&post=99477 they'll be pretty neutral, if slightly bright monitoring cans? I get the impression you'd recommend the HD 661's modded over the V6's. If so, I think I'm going to have to do that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 9:13:31 GMT
There's also something about the bass in the 7506 which I find strange as well. They give the impression that they go very low although graphs suggest otherwise. You get a very fast low slam on bass. (almost detached in a way) It seems very low but can't be if the graphs are correct. It doesn't seem lacking - if anything, the mid bass seems lower but deeper bass slams!! (Some kind of aural illusion?) I think the biggest problem with it is the treble which seems on the verge of glass-like and yet at other times, it's fine. It's also volume related. I get the feeling that it needs turning up to get the presence in the mids right and then the bass really kicks in big time. I listened to the radio broadcast of the Queen's Jubilee concert last night on the Sony's and they really did reveal a lot of acoustic information as well as the placement of the mics where they were taking different sound feeds from. Curiously, I could hear them playing around with which mic to take the 'secondary' feed from and occasionally, someone fiddled with settings, using a mic further back more in the mix so that you became much more aware of the ambiance (and crowd) and then they quickly went back to more direct feed with a 'slice' of microphone feed for ambience - but they kept playing with the balance between a direct feed and the mic feeds. Someone in the team was very curious about the balance between the direct feed and the ambiance. Also, some of the gear up there was hissing like a basket of snakes which became blatantly loud on the Sonys and then you became aware of someone twiddling it out!! Some of the broadcast was terrific on the Sonys actually. (Especially as you said earlier - loud!!) They just don't seem to get in the way and you don't feel that they're putting a lot of 'colour' into the sound - which is perhaps why many don't like them for use at home perhaps? Stevie Wonder's Band last night sounded 'sublime' on them and funnily enough, so did Madness. (The sax player may have been slightly pissed though - it sounded like it on headphone) They do a good job for 'monitoring' headphones and what has kind of caught my attention is since I became aware of them, thanks to you and Mike following the newer Superlux closed headphones, I keep seeing them on recording engineers' heads (amongst others) I've also seen the 7509's around. Oh well, if the V6 takes a slight bit of glass away, it may improve them. Hopefully, I'll have them soon to compare. Funny, since I've NEVER considered Sony a serious headphone contender but the 7506/V6 and maybe 7509 have a very different sound sig that reveals another layer in music recordings that other headphones don't pick up so well - although others may well be better headphones technically!! I've kind of developed a 'respect' for these headphones where I know that they may not be the prettiest sounding, but they are actually close to a live sound - warts and all. I guess it depends on what is important to you as a listener. I tend to be slightly schizophrenic in the way I listen. Sometimes very analytical and other times, just want music to play!! Last night, the Sonys really did a good job with the live BBC feed - I was glued for two hours and cursing the twiddlers on the soundboard!! BTW, The 'Rat' found a funny thing with some of the Senns - he touched a mic on the back of the enclosures and they behaved much better in the lower frequencies. Suggests that Sennheiser don't always do a great job on the enclosures for their headphones. (HD280 and another one did the same thing) The low sine waves really cleaned up when he literally touched the enclosure with the bottom of a mic. Not pushing - just touching the surface - very poor really and you'd think Sennheiser would have checked for things like this. The graphs for the 7506 are easier on the eye here: en.goldenears.net/4726
|
|
funk1969
250+
Some things are so easily overlooked...
Posts: 481
|
Post by funk1969 on Jun 5, 2012 10:01:22 GMT
I refer to the V6 as the headache headphone given it sounded rather loud even with a bit of volume and its brightness. If anything the CD900 ST is a better headphone in my opinion.
These days I prefer a smoother presentation. For some reason almost all the Sony headphones I had (V6, CD900 ST, CD1700, DR6A) could have a treble happy emphasis that was most annoying at times. Although the the CD1700 has amazingly pleasant detail and highs with the right recording and set up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 11:01:12 GMT
Yes, I felt that terribly when I first heard the 7506. I put it in a cupboard on the end of a radio for months!!! (I forgot about it)
On rediscovering it, it seemed less aggressive and there seemed to be 'no colour' in the sound. (The easiest way to describe it I guess) The problem is that this type of sound isn't always very pleasing with music although I find it fairly neutral tbh and is good for analysing sound moreso than just listening to music. It gave me a great insight into the Queen's Jubilee Concert last night. (Pointed out a lot of twiddling actually!!)
What is also surprising is the low slam - with a headphone that doesn't measure very deep at all. So the low slam isn't as low as I think perhaps.
I'm getting quite accustomed to its sound sig and I feel that some other headphones are a bit 'veiled' by comparison. This are like seeing through crystal and it's not always pretty!!!
I should have this V6 soon so I'll compare. They look very similar but there seem to be slight differences. A 'pro' tool type headphone could well be limited in FR because they are being used for specific tasks (Like spotting noise and hiss) so the V6 could well be a little smoother than the 7506 in spite of what I've read on Headfi concerning the two of them.
Jude said they were the same, but the drivers are not the same at all. Different types of magnet although the sound sig looks similar on graphs. (With slight differences)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 11:10:10 GMT
That's because most of the slam of a bass is in the 100Hz-200Hz (they are harmonics) region and the fundamentals of it do not contribute much, in fact may even obscure to these harmonics. The 7506/V6 is already 'flat' before that area. So HP's with rolled off lows can still create (the illusion ?) of 'good bass' especially when boosted in the 50 to 200Hz region (a lot of HP's have this boost). In this light even the K500 has 'good' quality bass, just lacking in the 'subs' department and doesn't have the usual 'lift/boost' many other HP's do have. This can be clearly seen in the Rat's plots as well. Some of these Ultrasone thingies are extreme in that bass boost. The HD280 shows a similar dip in the lower mids as HD250-II and HD661 which gives the illusion of deep separate bass which is not 'muddy-ing' the sound.
Those extreme bottom end and highs extention (upto 18kHz) is important to me to get the whole experience, to others it may not be needed at all and these people will only find those lows or even super highs distracting or 'muddy' (when not having the proper headphones).
Headphones like these Sony's and some other 'professional' targetted headphone that are designed to have rolled of highs, for specific reasons already mentioned, hardly ever complain about the lack of highs extention. If anything this makes them sound 'smoother' and less 'edgy'. Similar to FM radio which is limited to 15kHz. (but this medium also has considerable compression as well)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 11:15:55 GMT
I never owned the 7506 nor V6 but heard the 7506 (and 7509) alongside other known to me headphones (HD280, DT770, DT990, HD681, K240, HD25 e.t.c.)
So I do not prefer it over the original, it will have better VFM. The HD661 is no longer in my possession, this tells something about my personal opinion only though. I have never had the pleasure to compare the V6, 7506 or HD661 at the same time so have to rely on (poor) auditive memory and comparisons to 'knowns'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 12:18:45 GMT
I found the 661's difficult to get on with although I do know that some people on here liked them. I couldn't get on with them at all. I found them very disappointing in comparison to the 681's. For me, they have a strong colouration that can you can get with many closed headphones. It's like the closed space has a 'resonance' that affects everything going through the headphone. I've often seen it referred to as 'quacking', but that's not how I hear it. It's a 'one noteness' in bass frequencies that can get very tiring. Like for instance, if you listen through a tube, you can't lose the effect of the tube itself. I use the 681's which will make Frans laugh when I say, they sound comparatively warm with the 7506 sounding like pure, freshly cleaned glass. With your filter Frans, the 681's are comparatively fat sounding!!! The K601 doesn't have the same 'slam' as the 7506 on the same music, but is better balanced for musical enjoyment I guess!! The funny thing is, I still quite like the 7506 and it's crystal glassy, nature and this hard 'slam' effect that it has. The 7506 has a very 'focused' sound in comparison. Like you, Frans, I'm extremely interested in that K550. It's this blasted search for a good, comfortable closed headphone. They're so difficult to find!!! I did a little experiment today. Very unscientific but surprising to me in any case .... I put sine waves through K601, D2000 and 7506 and listened by ear. (I think my hearing only goes to 14 or 15 KHz nowadays but I was surprised at how I perceived tones in the bass and treble. In the treble - all seemed to fall away at the same place. Now that is probably the limitations of my hearing coming into play. At 12 KHz they all had about the same intensity and faded roughly the same amount, so for me, anything going above 15 KHz is wasted energy. They all reached 13 KHz; just touched on 14 and gone at 15. That's the limitations of my ears there. The bass was surprising. The K601 went out of its depth around 30 where it was becoming weak. The Denon went down to 15 where I could detect the individual pulses. At 10, it was no longer a note but pulses. The 7605 went down t0 40, detectable at 30 and just about at 20, so it isn't massively behind the Denon down there!! The 7506 is quoted 10 - 20 Khz - I was hearing it still at 20. What surprises me is how similar the roll offs are at each end so I must be reaching the limits of my hearing and if the headphones are doing any more, I'm not able to hear it. The point where each disappear is roughly the same except the Denon which is louder lower down than the other two. The Denon is bossted in any case and I can help the Sony by boosting it as well. So if they are reaching the limits of what I can hear, then it follows that perhaps the frequency responses of headphones at the extremes is theoretical to say the least!! For me - 20 to 15Khz is probably as much as I can hear. 20 is also pushing it at the bottom since it gets to the point of pulses rather than a note. The lowest note of the bass guitar is E which corresponds to around 40 Hz and I can hear there easily on all 3 headphones. (Unless I'm hearing harmonics) They all produce the same sound so the harmonic thing definitely works if that's the case. Although the Sony has a strong top edge, I listened to some Peter Andre (!!!!) today and the bass is truly hefty. It really hits hard. It feels like DT770 levels without taking over the rest of the spectrum, so it dies fast as well. Perception is truly strange. The bass on the Sonys is massive and yet it's curtailed if you look at its FR graph. It's quite interesting to do an 'ear' test yourself with your headphones because you realise how good a job they are all doing really and perhaps we are often discussing something theoretical since the headphones are often working outside the parameters of our hearing so the magical 20 - 20,000 is perhaps too much for many of us? For me - 40 - 15,000 might well be perfectly adequate to cover my hearing. Maybe it's simpler to use Ipod earbuds?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 16:17:43 GMT
The HD681 has a boosted bass and with the filter the 'masking' effect of the excessive treble is also less so even more bassy sounding. The 7506 doesn't have the lifted bass (which is pleasant for hifi listening) so eventhough the HD681 are relatively 'cooler' sounding as a lot of other headphones they will be bassy compared to 7506. en.goldenears.net/4251 shows the HD681 and you can see the bass is about 6dB higher in level when you compare with en.goldenears.net/4726The difference in slam is considerable when comparing the 7506 with K601(http://en.goldenears.net/8449) you see a big difference in behavior between 40 Hz and 400Hz. Don't forget the Beyer DT250 as closed back prof tool... this one might surprise you as well.. en.goldenears.net/10680These Goldenears graphs are much closer to the 'audible truth' as Tyll's and Headrooms graphs are. Mostly because of a different HTFR correction being used. Good portable and closed headphones are thinly spread. Much easier to find a good open phone. Fortunately for me the DT1350 is portable AND closed. Forget the Sony specs... they aren't lying... just altering the truth in their advantage by NOT stating at - how many dB the frequency range is given. Independent measurements all show it is probably 'measured/given' at - 20dB. I 'sweep' now and then (for creating filters/checking for resonances or frequency range). The 'subterranian' thuds (like in a movie theatre or when using a subwoofer) can reach 25Hz or even lower. I like those to be 'on level' and thus my preferred range is 20Hz for that reason. 25Hz I can clearly hear as a slightly distorted sine wave on the DT1350. I can still hear upto 16khz and am 'aware' upto 17kHz (some kind of pressure, not a tone) For me 20Hz to 17kHz (-0.5dB) is what I want so this means 16 Hz to 20kHz - 3dB probably. In Sony terms I would need a 3Hz to 80kHz headphone (@ -20dB)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 16:28:30 GMT
I must admit, Frans, you have got me thinking about the DT1350 as well. I find the 'on ear' experience a bit uncomfortable and for me the DT250 is more comfortable since it allows the flap of your ear to fit inside. (Like the Sonys) I had the DT250 for a while but in the end, I felt that the top end was a little 'shooshy' sounding and not 'hot' enough for me. (Same with the Sennheiser equivalent) However, now in the light of the Sony, maybe they're not as bad as I felt at that time..... The M50 is a bit bloated for me but is ok. To be honest, I think I need an analytical headphone by nature, but a musical headphone by heart!!! I always feel the need to have thatclarity that gets me right into the techno stuff in the recording, but also crave the sheer musicality that you can get with the Denons as well. ie - I LOVE the way the Sony dissects and I also LOVE the musicality of the D2000. I know, you're going to say the 1350 is the answer!! I must get to a place where they demo the DT1350. Trouble is, I'd probably end up buying that as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 16:34:45 GMT
The DT1350 is not very comfortable for longer listening and needs some EQ-ing for 'hifi' sound. Getting a good seal with the stock pads is not easy for some ears (due to shape)
I have not heard the DT250 yet but am looking for it (and K550/HD700) when I can.
Never buy the DT1350 without a proper long listen (30 mins or something)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 16:47:40 GMT
I wouldn't at the price of them, Frans. I find the HD25 hard to wear so it would be difficult with the Beyers too.
Looking at the FR of the dt250, it is warmer than the Sony but it has that little dip at about 8 Khz.
That's where I think they may have been designed for mixing since the ear canal has a resonant frequency of about 7 Khz- 8 Khz so having a little dip there helps to 'mellow' the tone of the headphone and make it less tiring for long term listening.
The Sonys don't have that little dip so they sound a lot brighter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 11:54:17 GMT
I have my hands on a V6now and a quick comparison shows that the sound is basically the same but I'm not sure whether it's my imagination playing tricks or whether it's a driver variation (at this low price point) but the V6 seems slightly different in the treble. It feels slightly softer and less hard. It could be new drivers/manufacturing differences or .......
I have suspected this Mike (sorry) is the 7506 a copy? (A good one at that) I know that there are many copies flying around.
I'll play around when I have more time and get the volume levels exact on my HP4 amp, but initial feelings is that there is a very close resemblance with a tiny difference in treble quality.
I do think the V6 is good value since Amazon sell them at about £56.
I can't believe I'm taking a Sony seriously!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 16:24:18 GMT
Frans, I used the hd681 filter that you made for me with the Sonys and it works rather nicely. I can't remember the impedance of the Sonys but the edge is slightly curtailed with the filter and makes it into something rather nice.
It's probably doing something wrong in another part of the spectrum but once the edge is smoothed, it's a rather good headphone.
What I like is that the filter doesn't alter the character of the headphone and it seems to target one specific area and as luck would have it, it seems to be targeting the area that supplies the harsh feeling in the Sonys!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 16:37:18 GMT
Who knows...
Someday I might have a 7506 in my hands and could be trying to make a filter for it (or the V6).
It's 63 Ohms so the filter is filtering less than expected in a slightly off frequency band.
a wide filter centered around 5kHz (2kHz to 10kHz) and 5 dB down in the centre and only 1 dB off near 2khz and 10kHz might shave the glassy edge off. BUT the resonance at 3kHz will still remain as that is a property of the membrane. The filter for it has been designed already... only needs to be tested and tuned
You can try the above mentioned settings with an equalizer...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 20:38:49 GMT
Well, I've found a box so not long!! I am curious about another pair of ears on them tbh. (That I trust) I hated them at first and couldn't be bothered.
Either the radio put through them for all that time or my head has changed and I developed a new respect for them, but for different reasons. A no nonsense, no frills sound which is good for some of the awful recordings I sometimes listen to. (50's radio recordings)
Where some headphones struggle to play that kind of stuff in any coherent way where you are struggling to hear what is being said because of humps in the FR, the Sonys seem to just play it plain and clear.
Music is a different thing and poor recordings are truly painful. I'd say it possibly worse than a K701 in this respect. However, it plays low bass stuff (or rather, gives the impression of low bass stuff) when it's actually there in quite a dramatic way.
It's a strange headphone with a pleasant side and a very prickly side as well. Anyway, not long now I've actually found a box!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 15:36:10 GMT
Because this review covers 2 headphones in a similar 'target' this post is present in 2 threads. Both Sony 7506 and Audio Technica ATH-M50 are collapsible headphones intended for studio monitoring usage but are very 'opposite' in almost all area's.
A comparison of a Sennheiser HD650, Sony 7506 and the Audio Technica ATH-M50. In order to 'set' my head to a reference and the compared headphones all have rolled off or lacking highs the HD650 was chosen as reference. The HD650 is open and the other 2 closed but that is if no importance for the SQ. WAV via Sansa Fuze into OPA-88 (tube hybrid) on low Ohmic setting because the 7506 filter was not yet prepared to deal with 120 Ohm sources.
UB40
7506 unfiltered: Fattter bass than HD650, seemingly deep. Bass seems slightly unattached. Not the warm signature of HD650. Voices separate from the music albeit a bit overly 'bright'. Cymbals lack the nice 'tizz' and sound wooshy, but are present so not dull sounding.
7506 filtered Fattter bass than HD650, seemingly deep. Bass seems slightly unattached. Signature leaning more towards HD650. The sharp edge of the voices is gone and integrate better in the music itself. Cymbals lack the nice 'tizz' and sound wooshy, but are present so not dull sounding though less bright compared to unfiltered.
M50. Darker signature (warmer) than HD650 bass is a bit muddying up the sound. Voices are less bright than HD650 which feels more natural. Softer highs and more extended than 7506. No sparkly highs but because of this can turn it up louder. Firm grip on the head.
Etta James:
HD650. Voices stand out, very forward yet not harsh. Bass is present but not thumping. Highs are as present as they can be in a HD650 and feels slightly rolled off but not lacking.
7506 unfiltered: Not very musical (hifi). Voices are shouty. hihat unnatural and dry. Lacks highs extension considerable. Instruments are very well separated. Bass has good slam and feels very present but not overly 'fat', perhaps a bit disconnected. Reminiscent of the Superlux HD661 although the Superlux pairs this with a more musical representation.
7506 filtered: More musical than witout filter yet still bordering on shouty. hihat still not realistic and there is just an udefined 'shhhh' sound, no 'tizzes' e.t.c.. Lacks highs extension considerable. Instruments separate very well. Bass has good slam and feels very present not overly 'fat'
M50. Warm sound, the reasonable 'cold' recording suddenly is full bodied. Voice doesn't jump out yet is forward albeit a bit 'closed in'. Music is more a whole, threw on a pile sortoff. Hihat is better but also lacks the 'tizz' which I know is in the recording (DT1350 says so) Bass is very fat and thumping.
Eagles (live) HD650: Well balanced sound. Voices integrated in the sound with normal 'separation'.
7506 unfiltered: Not very musically engaging. cymbals do not crash properly, not realistic, and there is just a soft 'shhhh' sound without differentiation between different cymbals. Attack on drums stands out. quite obvious lack of highs extension. Instruments separate extremely well. Voices are quite (overly) bright and 'forward' leaning to thin.
7506 filtered: Not very musically engaging. cymbals do not crash properly not realistic and there is just a soft 'shhhh' sound in it. quite obvious lack of highs extension . Instruments separate extremely well. Voices are still on the bright and forward side but better than without filter. Attack on drum realistic and clear.
M50: a bit muffled sounding. cymbals sound a bit better than 7506, softer in character yet quite obvious a lack of highs extension. Voices do not jump out and are deeper in the music than with the HD650. Separation of instruments far below the HD650 and completely the opposite of 7506.
Conclusion: With various types of music a few things become very obvious:
M50: Very warm signature, sometimes a bit muddy with a prominent bass and rolled off in the highs but pleasant 'soft sounding' highs. Nothing stands out really in the music but the lack of extension and somewhat muffled sound on occasion makes it not a very good hifi phone. You can listen to this for longer periods at higher SPL. Instrument separation is NOT one of it's strong points. Firm grip on the head and a bit warm on the ears. Good attenuation of outside noises and feels sturdy.
Could be used as a hifi phone, but IMO there are better suited headphones for that in this price range. A bit dark but can understand people using this as a hifi phone. Especially for very bright recordings that 'mellow out' considerable and become more enjoyable.
Sony 7506: Mechanically not feeling as sturdy as the ATH-M50 and sometimes collapses when picking them up so you have to finnick twith the ear pieces to get it on your head. The ATH-M50 has a similar collapsible construction but doesn't have this issue (wouldn't call it a problem) Unfiltered it is overly bright and at the same time lacks highs extension in a big way. Bass is (perhaps slightly more than) present and punchy. With a powerfull amp you can 'feel' the bass. Separation is excellent, perhaps sort-of exaggerated even. Yet not nearly as good as an (EQ'ed) DT1350. Completely un-suited to quitely enjoy hifi sound as the cymbals/hihats are all sounding similar and swooshy. Attack of drums is exaggerated but not annoyingly. Voices sound very thin/sharp/shrill but stand out. Not very musical or engaging.
Filtered the overly bright signature is better yet the separation is not affected. The rest of the character is the same.
IMO this is NOT very suited as a hifi phone but well suited to 'disect' recordings. In a studio everyone involved in a recording can hear themselves very clear so excellent monitors.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 23:13:36 GMT
Here is the pair of Sony MDR V6 headphones that I have had for quite a while, and just now dug up from the dusty old bin. I got rid of the pesky coiled cable, recabled them with Mogami Neglex W2534 cable, and modded the original single entry to a dual entry. The Mogami cable seems to have tamed them down somewhat, especially in the HF. They still sound plenty clinical though, and are good for critically analyzing recordings.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 8:55:46 GMT
I find them great for 'critical' listening Israel. Brutal with poor material but then again, they're not really intended as a hi fi type headphone I guess.
I love your cable jobs. I also hate those coiled leads.
I'm also quite curious about the sony mdr-7509hd but it's no longer available.
I'm not sure what the direct replacement for this actually was and I wonder why they replaced it?
|
|