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Post by gommer on Jun 3, 2012 19:59:28 GMT
Here we go, it seems I'm the first one here to own a pair. Birthdays are a good thing I'll start off with some trivial bits. These cans look nice, very nice. Brushed alu inlays, the plastic parts don't feel plastic, not wobbly at all, very sturdy. Plug type is a 3.5mm type with screw-on 6.35mm adapter, which is good. The 701's have 6.35mm on the cable and 3.5mm adapter and when the 3.5mm plug is used, the lever is too large resulting in a bent plug. Not with these. Ear cups are exactly the same size as my 701's, which means large and comfy. Cushions are covered with leatherette, not velvet. Nevertheless, they do not seam to be sweaty on my head. I've worn them most of the day today and they still don't bother me, that's a very good sign. My 701's are ever so slightly more comfortable as in not noticeable. These are hardly noticeable. The cushions are very soft and the headband gives a perfect clamping force, just tight enough which is relatively loose. Headbanging with these on won't be possible. Head wiggling is possible, i do it all the time. Ear cups pivot on 2 perpendicular axis, so a good fit can be found easily. Pivots in both directions have single sided suspensions, but it all seems to be very sturdy nevertheless. Headband elongates with a ratchet system. in this respect the 701's are better, they auto adjust. Isolation: good. With no music playing, voice can be understood very good and only seems to be a bit muffled. But listening next to the TV set to an intimate Jazz ensemble now and I only hear the music, nothing distracts. Same works in the other direction, no complaints from my wife. No noticeable tapping noises from the cable, nor resonances from the headband. Now for the music. I'm going to postpone my impressions. But i can tell you one thing already: either the cans or my brain need to break in. First impressions on Friday almost made me weep. They where shouty, had muddy bass, no sense of detail and were very uninvolving. First trial straight on my mobile phone confirmed that they are not easily driven (32 ohm). But there were no improvements when i attached them to my TEAC WAP player, directly, nor through the Panda HA. One day of playing has passed and they seem to improve a lot. I'm actually enjoying the music now. So that's good news. But it's too soon to tell how revealing they are, if they are edgy, bass-light and whatnot. To be continued... Cheers, Marc
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 20:31:16 GMT
Tull described them as close to a bass light version of a D2000: The Denon AH-D2000 is a slightly better sounding headphone with a more refined and properly articulate treble. Though they aren't quite as refined sounding as the Denon AH-D2000, they deliver slightly better bass, and somewhat better upper-mid and low treble performance, but they provide much better isolation. He also says: If you're a mixing or mastering engineer that can live without good isolation, the more refined treble of the Denon D2000 is the way to go, though they tend to be a tad bright up top. The more expensive Denons are, well, quite a bit more expensive, but somewhat better sounding. (The diminishing returns curve is hard at work here.) I agree on the D5000 and D7000 being more expensive and only slightly more refined sounding and IMO not really worth the difference in price when looking for VFM Tyll also compares to K701 which is interseting as You own one too: Some will want a comparison with the AKG K701--a bass shy, but otherwise excellent headphone. I think the K550 is a remarkably different beast, bringing far more heft to the low notes, a similarly good mid, and not quite as competent treble, but overall a significantly more balanced and enjoyable listen for me. I am curious to hear if you can agree with Tyll or have different opinions. Still haven't heard one though..
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Post by gommer on Jun 3, 2012 21:00:12 GMT
Actually, the D2000's were on my shortlist until Ian mentioned their bad isolation properties. He even called them semi-open cans.
I'll be comparing them to my 701's and your ex-Superlux 661's. The Superluxes are my partner in crime at work now. They make a very enjoyable combo with my mobile phone with a little bit of EQ-ing. The Superluxes make my feet tap and bring a smile on my face. I wouldn't use them on a HA in my system at home though. They are shouty on a neutral, relatively good source. But they complement well with my SGS2.
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Post by elysion on Jun 3, 2012 21:07:43 GMT
It looks like the next few weeks could get very interesting. The K550's have been already a subject of RG discussions many times.
Beside the overall impression, I'm very curious to hear your impression about the (top-)treble. The K701/702's have a too sharp treble for my ears and are quite bright sounding.
I don't think that I'll buy K550's though. Personally, I've made the best experiences with 'phones that have a higher impedance. My favourites are still the DT 990 Pro's, the HD580/600/650 series and, partially, the DT 770 Pro's. What I really did like with the K702's was the huge soundstage, they sound extremely open. I have some hope that the K550's could be quite unique closed-back 'phones regarding long-time listening experience. If they sound also "open", then ear fatigue could be a smaller problem as with other closed-back 'phones (the DT 770 Pro's for example).
It's interesting to hear that even the new K550's are hard to drive. Almost all AKG 'phones I know are hard to drive in relation to their impedance.
Marc, do you have access to a Neco Portable or any other portable amp? It would be interesting to know how small battery driven amps deal with the 32 Ohms K550's.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 21:11:44 GMT
Technically speaking, the Denons are closed, but imo they are more like a semi=closed in that isolation isn't that good.
I still really like the sound although, if I'm honest, I also like the K601 and its openness.
I would like a K601 with just a tad more warmth I think and I fel that the K550 would have done it. Now you've made me think perhaps it wouldn't.
Check that you have a seal at the back of your head, Marc. I sometimes find with big cups, the back of your head on the bony part behind your ears can be a problem without you being aware of it and that can affect the bass. I can get something like that with the DT150.
I'm really curious how you find the sound in comparison to the K701. That's a headphone I've had problems with!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 21:40:48 GMT
Just listen to them through an inline valve buffer stage ! ;D
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Post by gommer on Jun 3, 2012 21:59:58 GMT
What did i say that could lead to that thought? Really. These cans are not mediocre.
Ian, first impressions where just that: abominable. But they already loosened up. I'm thoroughly enjoying music since this afternoon. Almost non stop and without a hint of listening fatigue.
I've just risked listening to my most loved albums by Kate Bush. The early ones. Never for ever first. These albums are badly recorded and/or mixed, whatever, no fun listening to on the 701's. But the musicality is back with the 550's. Fretless bass is lovely, with body down to the lowest 41Hz, nicely balanced lows and mids.
Talking about the evolution of them over a day of listening. This morning, i was listening to Dire Straits - The man's too Strong. Intro was lovely with full bodied string attack. But my ears were hurt by the synt-guitar attacks in the chorus. Just now, i revisited this track and it's gone. this track is flowing nicely now and I don't frown in pain anymore.
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Post by elysion on Jun 3, 2012 22:02:26 GMT
Just listen to them through an inline valve buffer stage ! ;D What about pads with integrated heating? A real innovation from AKG, that keeps your ears warm in the winter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 22:08:32 GMT
Some of the married members can do that without spending a cent.
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Post by elysion on Jun 3, 2012 22:09:56 GMT
That's very good news (for closed-back cans). I hope my guess was right. This could make them quite unique. Good closed-backs for long listening sessions.
There's also a point with AKG 'phones that is often not mentioned: The design.
IMO, AKG has produced a lot of 'phones with a very appealing design. I love the design an colour scheme of the K702's. They are real beauties. The K550's look also very appealing.
Many AKG 'phones are also very comfy. The round earpads are a good example. I also like the round earpads of most Beyer 'phones, while I can't get perfectly comfy with the oval pads of the HD580/600/650 series. The Senn pads are still very good, but they are not exactly perfect.
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Post by XTRProf on Jun 3, 2012 23:46:35 GMT
Err, where's the Star? Pictures?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 8:26:07 GMT
What did i say that could lead to that thought? Really. These cans are not mediocre. Ian, first impressions where just that: abominable. But they already loosened up. I'm thoroughly enjoying music since this afternoon. Almost non stop and without a hint of listening fatigue. Marc, it was your first impressions that got me thinking that it wasn't that different to the K701: First impressions on Friday almost made me weep. They where shouty, had muddy bass, no sense of detail and were very uninvolving. First trial straight on my mobile phone confirmed that they are not easily driven (32 ohm). But there were no improvements when i attached them to my TEAC WAP player, directly, nor through the Panda HA. One day of playing has passed and they seem to improve a lot. I'm actually enjoying the music now.So that's good news. But it's too soon to tell how revealing they are, if they are edgy, bass-light and whatnot.
If you found the K550 edgy following a K701, then it must have been like a razor!! The Horizon amp really helps the K601 and it would most likely do the same for the K701 and K550. I'm glad they've settled or your head has acclimatised to their sound. I am actually very curios about the K550 and also the W5000 and W1000 series. Closed headphones seem such a compromise in sound and it's difficult to find one that doesn't make the music sound hemmed in. However, with all the potential cup reflections, bass should really be thin on a closed design - if anything, they're normally emphasised down there! The K550 looks good:- www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK550.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 14:50:08 GMT
I have one!!! Boy, these are very good, straight out of the box. Marc, you've played these down. Top notch sound straight away. I know that many headphone guys are suspicious of AKG headphones with the K701 sound that seems to be like Marmite. (You either love it or hate it) Anyone who knows me on here has known the battle that I've had with the K701 and how I settled for the K601 in the end. In fact, differences between those two are small but just taking the edge away a tad from the K701 (in the K601) makes it a lot nicer. Still slightly bass light imo but very flat sounding. I have been very curious about the K550 since it appeared and I think I've found possibly one of the best closed headphones around. This is not me with a new toy - I have too many headphones and would get rid of these straight away if I wasn't fussed. I have more money than common sense. Frans is, once again, absolutely spot on with what he described to me from graphs although the K550 is giving me more than what he described as well. Especially in the bass. It most definitely is NOT a K701 sound with more bass. Nothing like. Marc, this may be why you weren't keen on it at the very start. It has a very different sound sig to the K701. This is brand new so maybe some serious wearing in is needed, but for those that don't believe in burn in, I'll go ahead and give my thoughts on this headphone. It has a stunning balance between top, mid and bass. The top is most definitely not edgy. I'd say that this is a warm headphone. Revealing and peculiar in that it sounds like an open headphone. There is no real 'closed colouration' with it that I am often aware of from many lesser closed headphones. (ie: there's no quack from the cup resonances) You can play this loud with no edginess in the treble. Top end is precise without any feeling of that Sony glass edge. The mids don't feel as recessed as many closed headphones. In fact, it doesn't really seem recessed to me much at all. The bass is ........ drop dead gorgeous. An AKG with serious, hard hitting, fast bass!! Nothing at all like the K701. In fact, I reckon K701 fanboys will hate this headphone or they will change their views on what a good headphone is. The D2000 made me look for something else in a home headphone. It kind of showed me the importance of the bass response but also the importance of the 'speed' of the bass. It needs to go fast or else the headphone becomes 'flabby'. The D2000 walks a close line to flabby on the bass in that it has large quantities of hard hitting bass that redeems itself by fading pretty quickly so other more important musical clues come through clearly. The K550 has the same feel about it in the bass region. It's a gorgeous, fat, hard hitting and fast bass. One of the best I've heard actually. Slightly less quantity, I'd say, than the D2000 (until I compare directly later when it's burned in) but the speed is there and it slams really well. The K550 is really well balanced tonally and to me, it sounds like a half-closed headphone. It seems very open and yet, it seals really well. One thing about the cups. As I suspected, if you have a bony head behind your ears (as I do), these big cups can be a little too big and so the seal unknowingly can be broken on the back of the pads. AKG make them fatter at the back which is a good thing, but you do need to check the seal at the back, or else, your impressions of the bass will not be the same as mine. Push the headphones forward on your head and push the cups down onto your ears and they will swivel and then seal properly. This is the key to the unbelievable bass that the K550 gives. Brand new, first listen and I'm not kidding, one of the best I've heard. For me, it's up there with the Denon D2000, better tonally and musically than the K601. This is worth absolutely every penny - I should have got one earlier. I didn't have to pay for them and I think the retail is £240 although Richer Sounds is outing them at a special price of £179. I did a publicity stunt for them today and they gave them to me along with a nice fee They are not easy to get your hands on apparently, or so the guys in the shop I went to said but if Dr Dre can put his name on a headphone and my joke friend - Fanny Wang, I'd put my name on these - they are quality sound and very well built. Like a tank actually. Best closed headphone I've ever heard. For me: (very approximately and some very close) 1. D2000/K550 - Top notch sound. 2. HD650/600/K701/K601 - depending on sound sig you want to hear. 3. DT990/HD250II - musical, engaging. 990 close to 650. 4. DT770/DT150 5. HD25/M50/ATH ad700/Superlux HD681 (all very musical sounding) 6. Grado sr125i (Close for 5th place really) SSR80i/sr60i 7. Senn ie8 for portable 8. Klipsch x10/x8 9. Portapro/Senn PX100/PX200 10. Sony 7506/V6 (portable and monitoring) Basically to show you where my ears are coming from; an approximate ranking order for what I tend to use at home. (With all kinds of other things floating around!!!) The K550 is top notch and imo is more musical than a K701 by a long way. Frans, you were right - very close to D2000!!!! There's not a lot of information on their specs in or on the box. 32 ohms but no FR graph of indication of how high or low they go. They seem very deep and also well extended in the treble.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 15:08:29 GMT
Alright then... I had a feeling this would 'suit' you seeing how you liked the D2000 and liked to have slightly less flabby bass.
I will be whispering something else ... HE500 ? (not fair, isn't closed and yet different again and a lot more expensive)
You lucky B.... d !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 15:25:42 GMT
;D I had to work 4 friggin' hours for them. (I was paid as well though) Actually Frans, I tried to get two so I could send you one but they wouldn't do that. They only had three in the shop. I was working the bloody street!!!!! (rain and all - playing through plastic sheeting!!!) Frans, get one. They are the best I've heard. You hear it straight away. I would guess that K701 people would find them too fat but they are spot on for me. More weight than the K601, slightly less (perhaps) than the D2000. Closed but sounding open. 32 ohms. Beautifully built. Brilliantly comfortable and not too warm on the ears. They don't look at all flashy (which is great for me). If I had to get rid of my headphones except one - I think I'd keep these. (or D2000) I'm still slightly suspicious of the D2000 cups losing screws so this one is a safer bet perhaps. If you liked the D2000 and like me, you like Portapro, HD650, DT990 then you'd LOVE the K550 Frans. I'm very pleased with my 4 hour stint in the rain. Now I'm going to look for graphs to see how my hearing compares with what I see measured!! ...... I'm Back!!! Using Tyll's measurements - no wonder I'm reminded of the D2000: www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3571&graphID%5B1%5D=2881&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+HeadphonesVery close to each other. AKG have produced a cracker here and it positively makes the K701 seem grainy and just 'wrong' in its voicing. I've never really liked the K240 (so called studio headphones) and the K701 has been a puzzle to me in that the number of people that like it. The K601 is easier for me to accept as a decent (flat) sound but the K550 is the dog's gonads. The more I listen. the more surprises I get. No bloom on mens' voices and yet a hard hitting bass on music. Add the HD650 and there is a kind of resemblance between all three: www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3571&graphID%5B1%5D=2881&graphID%5B2%5D=853&graphID%5B3%5D=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+HeadphonesMarc, you got a fantastic birthday present.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 16:54:48 GMT
Thanks for thinking of me. www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK550.pdfTo see if it what you hear has relevance to what measurements say you should look at the grey plots and imagine a 'flat line' as 'flat' sounding. Imagine the average of the grey curves below the red and blue one in the FR plot. These are 'raw' data the mic picked up (like the Rat did) with different positions/seal on the head. It shows it is rathere sensitive to positioning, differences can be 10dB ! in the lows good isolation as well distortion well below 1% (-40dB) and somewhat better than DT1350 It should only sound slightly different on higher impedances as well and probably only the highs are altered on a higher impedance. As you can see the red and blue line are gradually sloping downwards which means it will sound 'sonically flat' Now look at these 'graphs' www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT1350.pdf(the grey lines) and compare the squarewaves (they should ideally look square ofcourse) and you will probably be able to guess why I like that headphone. When I find one to audition I surely will. 4 hours of entertaining people who don't care is more like punishment than work IMO. It did bring you something good in the end though !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 17:04:35 GMT
On the HD650 you can see a 5dB higher level of lows in the 70-300Hz band. This makes it sound 'warm and lush' a bit too much but the brain can easily compensate so it sounds acceptable. You can also see the highs of the HD650 around 9kHz being 5 dB lower and stays lower even higher up. It doesn't look much on the graphs but 5dB is VERY audible !
The D2000 and K550 (and DT1350) are very close to 'ideal' sound. Just like the LCD-2/3, HE500, HE6 are but at a higher price level.
The annoying part is when you have something like the last 3 on your head and switch back to D2000/7000/K550/DT1350 these will sound like cheap crappy headphones for a while.
But as soon as some time has passed by and you don't have the reference at hand anymore the cheaper options sound like a million bucks again !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 18:30:39 GMT
Oh yes ..... it's all comparative and where you're coming from I guess. There's something about the high priced headphones that I can't get into tbh. I think it's because of the diminishing returns that I experienced with hi fi in the 70's and 80's and frankly, upgrades were a kind of let down in some cases. At a low level in those days, I went from a Rotel amp which was pretty cheap to a Cyrus 2 and I didn't like it at all. Ended up going back to the Rotel and then onto an Audiolab. The Cyrus was all PRAT and no music to me. Funnily enough, I loved the warm sounding NAD amps; especially bridged into mono and using two of them as power amps. Really powerful, warm sound. I can see the obvious benefits of the DT1350 as far as sound goes, Frans. It is an excellent headphone. In fact, that response for a little device like that is quite amazing. Once you'd got one, I must admit, I was thinking about it myself. What stopped me was the HD25 and comfort. I can't get on with the design which would have been frustrating for me - liking the sound (as I know I would have) but not being able to wear them for much longer than 20 minutes. I had the same (but worse with Grado 325i - they had to go) That's why the search for me has gone on and on. I can just about put up with the Sony 7506 (V6 arrives tomorrow) since it allows the flaps of your ears inside the enclosure so it's a kind of halfway house. Good for monitoring which I do like actually. For me, the comfort thing is important since I wear them for a long time. Just as important as sound, which is why I was so interested in the K550 way back when you did all that research for me on them!! You have quite amazing capabilities to read those graphs and get it pretty accurately straight away!!! Your description that you sent me was right on as far as the K550 goes. I'd say, the bass is slightly more than I expected from what you said but that may be more to do with the fit I have which is pretty good. I can see people perhaps finding it difficult to get the K550 to seal properly and not realise that the back is 'leaking' and so the bass gets mangled. You know, where that bone is behind your ears on some people - there is a step there and the pad needs to get around it and seal properly so 'boneheads' would find it thin perhaps because of a poor seal. It also affects the overall perceived sound and not just the bass. It becomes less focused, but once on - brilliant. Nothing like the K701 or K601 either. The K550 is warm and weighty. BTW, I did have some Stax electrostatics way back as well. Hated them. Thin. Edgy. Aggressive. No real bass. Didn't like them at all. It was about then that I started to mistrust hi fi people and felt that I needed to use my own ears and have confidence in my own feelings about sound!! Problem is that you need quite a large repertoire of sounds in your head and references in order to make fair(ish) judgements. The joys of being a subjective listener eh? However, you've kind of moved my focus moreso onto the measurements taken from headphones but then comparing what I see with what I hear. If I'm honest, the graphs do show what I think I'm hearing and often point out something I think is wrong with the sound and allows me to start to 'learn' where certain sounds reside in the audio spectrum!! One that is hard to distinguish is lower and mid bass. It's very easy to hear lots of lower bass that actually isn't there!!!! It's the mid bass that produces an impression. I remember in the 80's, the BBC were using a speaker that didn't really produce much bass and the justification was that what was actually there was flat and accurate so it was forgiven for this. I forget what they were, but they were also very insensitive and regarded very highly in the UK. (Spendors? I think) Anyway Frans, when you collect all the dosh from the sales - get a K550. It's a cracker. Top quality for a mid price headphone. My two crackers now, I think are the D2000 and the K550. Those two are real keepers. I can't really choose between the them. Similar - slight differences in treble but no big deal. I'm going to keep the HD650 for the wife. She plays the piano and likes the HD650 on the electric piano but I can see myself pushing a load of mine out tbh. They just don't come up to these two and so will start to get left in a box just for comparative reviewing!!
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Post by elysion on Jun 6, 2012 19:33:13 GMT
x 2
To be honest, this is one of the few moments where I'm glad to be jobless. Otherwise, I'd buy them at the next occasion and I have already TOO MUCH HEADPHONES. I don't need another one!
Ian, was my guess right that the K550's are well suited for long listening (which would make them almost unique in the closed-back universe)? Your detailed describtion let me think that at least.
I'm very curious to hear, which amps are a good match with them. Since I've made mixed experiences with 'phones that have very low impedance, I'm a bit wary regarding 32 Ohm 'phones.
For me, it's also very interesting since my personal personal preferences regarding 'phones often match yours and Frans' (for example HD650's, DT 990 Pro's).
Does the "open" character of the HD550's, which you have mentioned, only mean that the 'phones don't have a fatiguing bass backwave (the typical closed-back character) or do you really hear outside noises like with (half-)open headphones? The latter would imply that the seal isn't perfect, but I tend to guess that you've meant the first variant.
BTW: I know that you can't wear the HD25-1/II's for a long time. I've told you the following already a couple of times, but I'd suggest that you try it (again) somewhen: I've had a lot of problems with the HD25-1/II's initially, but I've worn them so much outside (and in every weather, from pouring rain to blizzard like conditions) that the pads have collapsed noticeable and the plastic rods have been stretched so much that I can wear them for an extended time without problems. 3-4 hours (or even more) are really no problem now and the sound has also improved a lot. I use them almost only with the Neco Portable V2. I've used my pair without any respect on the road and outdoors and I've had them often packed inside a backpack. I've had also the idea that it could be an interesting experiment to replace the plastic rods with something else. New HD25's are horrible regarding the comfort, but really worn out HD25's can be awesome. It's similar to good wine: It improves with age.
I hope that I don't bother you with the story above about the HD25's, but I don't know better (non-in-ear) 'phones for on the road/outside use. I don't wear them much at home though. Circum-aurals are always more comfy than supra-aurals.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 20:17:06 GMT
Hi Christian. Yes, these are easy to listen to for long periods. No signs of harshness or any massive cup reflections. They are very similar to the D2000 which has a boost in the lower region that becomes obvious if you switch from K550 to them.
I'd say that both communicate music really well and there's nothing clinical about them whatsoever.
I'd mentioned the K550 a little while back and Frans wrote to me describing what he felt it would sound like. So my expectations were based on what he'd said and tbh, on hearing them, I felt that the bass was way superior to what I was expecting.
It has a pleasant slam and there's good quantity of bass which clears very quickly so they sound quite 'translucent'. I'm absolutely delighted with the K550 but the fit could be a bone of contention for some. If the seal isn't made on the back, I could see people thinking that they are awful.
IMO, they are a really superior headphone and I haven't even broken them in yet. I also like the fact that they are tough as nails- real industry standard build. I would have loved a cable that could be taken off like on the Beyers and K702. That's the only thing I feel they should have done.
IMO, it also points out the deficiencies of the K701/702. Grainy is a word that comes to mind. The K550 is smooth and rounded and the K701 just seems to damned edgy. My guess is that some will turn away from that analytical, cold sound once they experience the translucency of a headphone like this with a decent bass.
The D2000 changed my views entirely on what constitutes a good headphone sound, Christian. I am finding that many headphones do certain things in order to mask or make them seem better than they actually are. I also see them as tools to do certain jobs as well, much more nowadays.
So, for instance, I don't mind the Sony MDR-7506 and its glassy nature if I'm using it to monitor something but it's not a headphone I'd recommend for people to relax and listen to the music. I used them to listen to the Queen's Jubilee Concert and they were top notch - for me to analyse what was happening with the engineers. I got a lot from that concert through them.
D2000 and K550 are lounge headphones big time. Luxurious, big sounding and expansive. I'd say very speaker-like actually.
I've had the HD25 for years. I can wear them, but I feel uncomfortable. Always have done. For me, they are also a compromise - I'm ok with them but not always entirely happy about their sound sig. Good (ish) monitors and tough. I think I'd be happier with the sound of the DT1350 since it's more extended than the HD25 tbh. But for working with, the HD25 is great. Short wearing times and tough with good sound.
I am aware that I am privileged, Christian. I don't mean to get people buying things just because I like them. I felt a little like that when Israel bought a Sunrise and a D2000 based on my writings. It always worries me.
I try to help people buy the right thing before buying loads of wrong things like I did. I have spent a fortune since the 70's on crappy things that have been 'recommended'.
If I did it all again, I'd say there were 'key' things and should have got the best at the time. Trouble is, we all go through this path of chasing our tails for minor improvements.
Also, as you say, we have different expectations/tastes but if I am honest, I'm starting to see much more that there is indeed a 'theoretical' line of acceptance for me of what constitutes a good sound and an ok sound. I think Frans has seen it happening and has focused me much more on what is actually happening with them so that I can find something that really suits me and my own expectations.
'Golden Ears' has been an education for me and I think (for me) they are mostly correct in what they are saying. Once I had identified what I like in a sound, then I went looking for something that can get close.
The K550 is damned close.
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elysion
Been here a while!
Team Anti M$ AND Facebook.
contra torrentem
Posts: 2,375
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Post by elysion on Jun 7, 2012 0:05:23 GMT
IMO, that's great news. I'm usually really an "open" man and prefer open or half-open headphones like the HD650's or DT 990 Pro's since they give me the most comfort for long time listening. I can also listen with the DT 770 Pro's for an extended period, but only with low volume levels. The bass backwave makes my ears tired soon otherwise. Ear fatigue isn't a real problem for with the HD25's, at least sonically (probably because they are not completely closed). The clamping force IS a problem with them though. I've had the luck that my pair has loosened up so much. I've had a few modding ideas for the HD25's this evening while I was making sports at home. I will open a new thread about it when I know enough (and got the time for it). Basically, I'm thinking of replacing the plastic rods with something else. For example a cross of the rods of the Beyer's (like 770/990 Pro's) and the PortaPro's. I've to ask my brother, who is a mechanic, how complicated is would be to get appropriate spring steel for that purpose. Almost no one has problems wearing the PortaPro's and most people find the Beyer's also quite comfy. Don't worry. I regret nothing. I've had a lot of fun in the past few years on RG and if I don't buy headphones and amps, I'm buying computer stuff. In fact, I was buying mostly computer stuff since last autumn. Since I already have a lot of headphones, amps and even more computers, it's really not a bad thing that I can't spend as much as I'd like (or nothing at all). It's a really good thing to USE the stuff that is lying around here... My priority is anyway the computer stuff at the moment since I want to make a few trainings in the next few years (I need them to be really accepted in the IT business; at the moment, I'm not). The main goal is to get rid of the printing industry. They've tried to cheat me enough and I'd like to switch over completely to IT somewhen. If I find the right niche, it would be also an option to start an own business. It's certainly not a good idea to start this now (for various reasons). I guess that almost everyone here on RG, that is active on the forum, has the same problem: We're too easily attracted by tech stuff. I have no problem with that. In fact, I DO like it. For the next few months, I've only scheduled few items for buying. And only if I can afford them then: I have a lot of new computer parts lying around unused. A good Seasonic 330W 80plus PSU, a Lian-Li aluminum case (which was about 8 years unopened in its box), harddrives, an optical drive and good fans for the case. I only need some parts to make a nice, energy-efficient computer. Perhaps I'll get one of the new AMD FM2 boards with a cheap Trinity CPU when they are available. I need also some RAM for that box. That's it and a nice new computer will see some use. If not a Trinity CPU, then I guess it will be a IvyBridge i3. The stuff doesn't cost very much and it should be possible to afford the parts while I'm jobless. I'll use them for training and I think it's a good investment. But beside that, I'm looking to avoid buying stuff (really). I have no clue how long I'm jobless. But for the next few months, everything looks not really bad. I've got quite a lot money from my overtime (approx. 260 hours paid 125%) and from the settlement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 10:21:11 GMT
I REALLY like these headphones. Can't take 'em off my head!! Large ear cups are really comfortable: A high quality dual plug: Sorry, low res pics and very dull day = grain, but they give an idea of size and quality of this gorgeous headphone.
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Post by gommer on Jun 9, 2012 16:48:07 GMT
Hello guys, Sorry for the late reply here, work was a bitch this week. But now it's weekend time and all is good Ian, thanks for your detailed description, it makes my job a lot easier and i couldn't describe the K550's signature better than you did. I would mostly like to concur with your findings, but I do feel there are a few differences in our findings. First of all, about break in. I was serious about my initial findings and i have no clue what happened. Either my mind tricked me and i had to adapt to the sound of the K550, or they really did change character over the course of 6-8 hours of breal-ik. Anyway, my findings now are mostly yours. They play relatively deep with good slam, nothing harsh, balanced. They play loud without breakdown and there is no fatigue. All good so far. But I'd like to compare them with my K-701 now. Which brings a slightly different story. First of all: objective comparison is difficult, since I only have one HA and the K550 is more sensitive than the K-701. So I need to adjust volume. But consecutive listening to the same songs on these 2 HP's doesn't put me off of teh K701 at all. The K-701 has it's own merits for me. True, K-701 is harsher, also way too harsh on some genres for my ears. K-701 obviously does not go as deep as K-550, but I don't really miss it on K-701 as it's not very far off. What bass is there, is better on K-701. K-550 is smooth, as you say. But overall it's too polite for me. It's not bad, but it lacks something. I can't put my finger on it, but it's uninvolving in a way. Best i can say is that K701 can give me goosebumps, K-550 can't. Is it timbre? Is it timing? Is it magic dust? I don't know, but i feel the difference. Surprisingly, even the Superlux HD-661 gives me better involvement (only with correct EQ and directly on my mobile, they're a wonderfull combo). K-550 sounds correcter, more refined, smoother though. I must not criticize the K-550 too much, since I do love them. I now find them more comfortable than the K-701, which I already found über comfy. K-701 is too harsh for some things, but wonderfully analytical for intimate music. K-701 doesn't hide any recording or mixing defects and that can be a bummer for many albums. The K550 brings out the music in these circumstances. It smooths out bad recordings. But speakers and -sometimes- K-701 can bring me to extacy, K-550 can't. But K-550 is like having a very good meal all the time. K-701 can bring a three Michelin-star menu one day, something awful the next day. For reference, my gear is as follows: Computer as source, networked to TEAC-WAP player with Panda HA (no output resistor). Sealing of the K-550 is effortless on my head. I can move them upward, downward, forward and backward over considerable distances without loosing a good seal. Music listened to while comparing, evaluating (rather enjoying): Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms Kate Bush - Aerial Kate Bush - Never for Ever Muse - Absolution Muse - Black Holes and Revelation Deep Purple - Machine Head Billy Joel - 52nd Street Galliano & Portal - Blow up Harry Connick jr. - Blue Light, Red Light Harry Connick jr. - She That's it for me, for now. Cheers, Marc
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 17:38:06 GMT
Hi Marc, The break in thing didn't seem to happen with mine. They were fat out of the box!! They may well split AKG lovers imo. Nothing like the K701 or the K601. IMO, the K601 is my most 'flat' headphone and I prefer it to the K701 which for me just goes a bit too far into the top end with not such a balanced bass end. If the K701 is boosted slightly at the bottom, I much prefer it actually. However, if you're really used to listening to the K701, I guess the K550 may well sound a bit lack-lustre. The K701 is lively to say the least. My own feeling is that the K550 resembles a 'speaker' sound more-so I guess. On the scale of things, it has more zing in the top end than the HD650 and HD600 but it also has nearly the same bass amounts as the D2000. The D2000 is a little darker by comparison and the K550 addresses the problems that you can get in the bass with the Denon. That one has a hump in the bass and sometimes, it verges on what Frans accurately called, 'flabby'. However, the K550 is a bit 'tauter' sounding - I really like its sound actually, but I can understand people coming from a K701 finding it a bit warm and maybe uninvolving. For headphone comparisons, I have a Presonus HP4 amp that has 4 headphone outputs, so I can match the volumes pretty easily. The Panda does veer towards the 'warm' side. I have one as well and it tends to slightly warm things up which means the K701 probably is fine and doesn't react that much to it, but I suspect the K550 will because it's quite 'hot' in the bass. It is very sensitive to the bottom end. I've fed mine from Sunrise and Horizon (valves), the X-Can v1, v2 and v8 (hybrid types) and the Neco Bosfet, the portable and the V-Can as well as the Presonus. I've tried an assortment of amps, but not the Panda - mine has a slight hum (from birth) and on some headphones, it's quite noticeable. (Not on the K701) Sunrise and Horizon give a big, fat sound but interestingly, the Bosfet gives a less warm picture and cleans the top up a bit more. I quite like the Bosfet - Christian made me get one because he rated it as well. It is a nice amp. I find the K550 quite rounded but it still has a nice, delicate edge to the sound on strings etc. It's probably also depends on where you're coming from. It's less mellow than a D2000 so that one would be way too far for you I guess. I'm really delighted with it but the break in thing is puzzling because I haven't detected anything altered yet and I didn't get the edge you mentioned at the start. It worked well straight from the box. Was yours a Richer Sounds version? I wonder whether there are different batches because I was told by them that there were a few distribution problems and some places were having a time of it trying to get enough for shops to stock. Maybe there are slight variations which could account for what you had at the start. The reason I say this is that one of the staff at Richer Sounds (who wouldn't leave me alone) kept on about how important it was to break them in because they don't sound right from the box. It was also mentioned on an internet review I saw by someone so I really was expecting it t be disappointing and got the shock of my life when I heard it first from the box. In fact, I thought if it got more mellow, I wouldn't like it!! Mine doesn't seem to have changed. For me, it's the best closed headphone I've heard so far, but then again, that may change when I hear the DT1350. I don't know. Nice choice of music there by the way. Also, I found that one of the better amps for the K701 was the Panda. Interestingly, mine hums slightly and the HD650 points it out terribly but there is nothing on the K701!! The K701 doesn't play as loud down there so that you don't detect it. However, it drives the K701 really well.
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Post by gommer on Jun 9, 2012 19:17:58 GMT
Hi Ian, I bought my K-550 online at Redcoon. It was about €201, shipping included. Redcoon is available in most of Europe, but not in the UK. www.redcoon.com/redcoon_in_europe.htmlInteresting you mention K-701 with Panda combination and the Panda's warm character. That might explain things. Don't make me buy a HA for the K-550 now, you wicked man. It's also nice that you mentioned other break-in stories. Glad to know I'm not going bonkers. BTW, my Panda doesn't seem to hum, not on the K-701, nor on the K-550 and it's still in a cardboard box. Only when touching the pot, but that's normal since not grounded (yet). Cheers, Marc
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