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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 15:59:56 GMT
Hi All I’ve just completed my Teleporter Buffalo III Build Firstly can I say what a joy the kit was to build and mention how useful and comprehensive I found the Integration guide along with the fantastic manuals provided. I did have an issue trying to get the WAVEIO to talk to the Teleporter but this was easily resolved and totally down to my own lack of understanding. My build Telleporter WAVEIO front end (Thunderbird 1) Buffalo3 (Thunderbird 2) Excuse the recycled cases. A bigger one for the Buffalo 3 will be used when needed. From what I’d read I was expecting those heat sinks to be glowing white hot but they actually run quite cool. For the BP HD I have 13.5V and 60ma shunt. For the HD 5.13V and 55ma with toes to the nose and used the aluminium chassis as a sink. Runs fairly cool to me and certainly not flaming hot by any stretch of the imagination. These units where both straight forward to set up and are behaving themselves in use which is all I can ask for. Likewise the Legato was a pleasure to build and worked first time. The board quality is really nice on all of the Kits. Fun to build ‘’Less Pulp more Juice’’ Oh yes indeed Take care
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Post by jeffc on Apr 28, 2012 21:16:25 GMT
Awesome stuff Shaun I've got a populated Legato 3 board gifted to me from mate Rob because of him not liking the LME49600 buffers. As my Class D Audio amp accommodates a balanced input and apparently sounds good with this used, I was thinking of testing it for I/V out from the SC-DAC with its capless balanced out bypassing the Bal>SE buffer stage supplying my Class D amp. Gain resistors would need to be adjusted up to accommodate the lower current out of the DSD1796 DAC and wiring would be a bit fiddly, but I figured it could be done, with current +15/-15V JLH-supplies for running it. I was even thinking a power switch to switch between I/V stages but ......... ambition beyond ability. Well that was the plan, just need retirement or a clone to find the time to play with it. Or I could send it to you. cheers.. jeffc
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 22:17:15 GMT
Awesome stuff Shaun I've got a populated Legato 3 board gifted to me from mate Rob because of him not liking the LME49600 buffers. As my Class D Audio amp accommodates a balanced input and apparently sounds good with this used, I was thinking of testing it for I/V out from the SC-DAC with its capless balanced out bypassing the Bal>SE buffer stage supplying my Class D amp. Gain resistors would need to be adjusted up to accommodate the lower current out of the DSD1796 DAC and wiring would be a bit fiddly, but I figured it could be done, with current +15/-15V JLH-supplies for running it. I was even thinking a power switch to switch between I/V stages but ......... ambition beyond ability. Well that was the plan, just need retirement or a clone to find the time to play with it. Or I could send it to you. cheers.. jeffc Hi Jeff Thanks I've got the LME buffers in at the moment but was thinking of trying out a few OP stages further down the line, It's sounding pretty good at the moment but i can't say with certainty how much impact the buffers have on the overall SQ. I have my tridents on male and female pin headers to allow quick change of those if i decide to try some other options later on. as you say it's DC coupled to match the rest of the set up. bypassing the BALSE is just a matter of adding a couple of links so quick and easy. the Balanced OP may need OP caps depending on if your power amp has IP ones. using the JLH sounds like a plan to me. I'm thinking of those and also trying out Salas shunts for a three way PSU on the Legato. thunderbird 3 build may need a bigger case nice looking subs by the way take care
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Post by Will on Apr 29, 2012 9:36:17 GMT
Hi Shaun,
Looking good! on the dac side of things (and as Leo has mentioned) PSU is THE most critical thing in getting the best out of this dac.
As you've most likely read, I started on 317/337 based regs and thought all sounded good. Moving to a salas on the Vd supply brought a surprisingly worthwhile improvement, so kept to that until recently. Syd very kindly lent me his PH shunt for the IV side of things, and this change was stunning! So went with them. The last change I made was PH mini-shunts on the AVCC, which made the music all the more fluid and lovely.
I have a PH PR3 reg to fit, replacing my dead Salas, and also want to fit a PH mini-reg for the XO.
The tridents and HD supplies you have will be a big step up from the bog-standard 317/337 supplies I used, so increases in SQ may not so 'big' as they were for me, but you'll still have a lot of fun wringing the best out of this dac!
Have fun!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 9:56:23 GMT
Hi Will I use a PH 3.3V shunt reg that Syd sent me in the SC DAC for the DIR9001 , but you need to be careful there, as you can go too far sometimes when you fit an additional one.I tried a 2nd for the supply to the DAC , but reverted back to a 3.3V Cricket for that. Regards Alex
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Post by Will on Apr 29, 2012 10:06:26 GMT
Hi Alex,
The PH shunts I had the opportunity to use were +/-15Vdc, powering the analog section of the IV (think the current Legato pcb as equivalent), not the digital. I was very lucky to be able to 'try before I bought' and most definitely an upgrade from JLH/Salas in that area. You are right though, that it's very easy to over egg the pudding, as well as perhaps put in to much sugar!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 10:30:52 GMT
Hi Shaun, Looking good! on the dac side of things (and as Leo has mentioned) PSU is THE most critical thing in getting the best out of this dac. As you've most likely read, I started on 317/337 based regs and thought all sounded good. Moving to a salas on the Vd supply brought a surprisingly worthwhile improvement, so kept to that until recently. Syd very kindly lent me his PH shunt for the IV side of things, and this change was stunning! So went with them. The last change I made was PH mini-shunts on the AVCC, which made the music all the more fluid and lovely. I have a PH PR3 reg to fit, replacing my dead Salas, and also want to fit a PH mini-reg for the XO. The tridents and HD supplies you have will be a big step up from the bog-standard 317/337 supplies I used, so increases in SQ may not so 'big' as they were for me, but you'll still have a lot of fun wringing the best out of this dac! Have fun! Hi Will interesting thoughts i have my Tridents plugged into female pin headers at the moment to allow quick changes PSU wise. From what I've read the V3 Trident is a step up from the V1 SQ wise and in terms of reliability. i don't have the V1 to compare so only going on hear say for that. the PH regs look like the obvious replacement for the tridents and I'll be trying some of those after the bank balance recovers a little. i also have two pairs of Salas shunts available for splitting the supply to the Legato so one +/- for each side and the Placid for the BALSE. the DAC as is represents a really good starting point and i could live quite happily with it as is. the PSU changes are quick and reversible so no worries. bigger case required did you notice your lovely PSU boards doing great service on the Teleporters and WAVEIO board? great work Will. and lovely to have the pleasure of your company. take care
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 10:39:32 GMT
That's a great looking set of kit there Shaun What are the clear plastic devices between the traffos etc? Relays? Just showing I know nuthin' Syd
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Post by Will on Apr 29, 2012 11:21:31 GMT
Hi Syd,
I think that they are terminal block with safety covers, connecting mains in to the traffo inputs. Very nice and tidy. Hopefully Shaun can tell us where he got them from, as they are quite useful.
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Post by Will on Apr 29, 2012 11:24:57 GMT
Hi Shaun,
It's nice to be back!
I did notice that you used them, they OK to build and use? I've not built any up at the moment. What caps did you use for tank, bypass and output?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 12:44:07 GMT
Hi Shaun, It's nice to be back! I did notice that you used them, they OK to build and use? I've not built any up at the moment. What caps did you use for tank, bypass and output? Hi Will Will they are great to build with and work really well. a great job you did on those boards. for the Tank cap for the 5V 470mA supply to the WAVEIO i used 4700uf Pany FC and OP i think it was 100uf Suntan on the OP.i did want a little more heat dissipation so you will notice the errr artistic work done on shaving the bigger heat sink to fit around the larger cap(well it is DIY ). next time I'll just use the side of the case for sinking. for the 5.25V 150mA Teleporter supplies i used 2200uf FC tank and i think suntans or FM or SA i can't remember which. Hi Syd thanks for the nice comments but i have some way to go to match your superb build. the covered terminal blocks are 5A high temperature units from Ebay which I've also used on my build of Alex's class A. they save a little faffing when connecting a number of transformers to in supply and also allow one PSU at a time to be quickly tested. i've used these quite a bit with my tube stuff and they have proved to be pretty rugged. i like them others may not. take care
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2012 12:45:59 GMT
Hi All So maybe time to start picking through my build. Here is a link to the Teleporter thread which goes through the devices in more detail. www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/201106-introducing-bit-teleporter.htmlStarting with the WAVEIO Teleporter. Teleporter located top right hand side. The Teleporter has worked out really well in my set up and has allowed me to locate my WAVEIO USB-I2S board nice and close to Will’s Music PC. Its job is to convert the I2S OP from the WAVEIO into LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signal Wikipedia is a good place to look for an explanation). It is capable of sending the LVDS through CAT5 (or 6) of up to 100ft. the signal is then converted back to I2S and fed to the DAC. It is also capable of sending and receiving DSD or any other PCM TTL signal which could be useful in the future. I have mine connected to the PC with 0.5M of Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable which from what I have read is better than the 6M USB cable I had connected to the WAVEIO previously. Receiver and sender are identical and configured by means of DIP switches so no great fiddle in that regard. I have no MCLK connected at the moment but other BII users have been disconnecting the DAC Clock supply and syncing directly to the WAVEIO boards XO. (So Async from PC to WAVEIO and Sync from WAVEIO to DAC) That may be worth playing with in the future. The Teleporter has an on board LDO regulator and just needs a decent 4-7V supply. I used a JLH on the sender end (nothing wrong with giving the LDO a little less work to do) but had little room to fit one on the receiver. No matter Will’s 317 reg board worked really nicely set to 5.25V on sender and receiver. This set up seems to work pretty well but I did have an issue with getting signal lock on the Buffalo III but I found that this was due to inadequate grounding on my PC. It was easily fixed by just grounding the PC chassis to the WAVEIO Teleporter front end chassis. So for those whose don’t want to have their PC squashed in with their HIFI and would prefer to use I2S the Teleporter is a useful device to have. It also allows cash to be focused on the front end USB-I2S board which is useful if people like to use more than one DAC. Yup just the need to add a receiver module to and I2S capable DAC. It’s also possible to tap I2S/DSD directly from a sound card and small enough to locate without problems. S o a versatile unit for people who choose the I2S/DSD route and don’t want the compromise of the squash or loooong USB cables. I’ve had no unlocks since it’s been running and as for SQ well the small amount of sibilance I’d had from all of my DAC’s used with the long USB has now vanished. Cost is $90 for the pair (receiver and sender) which to my mind is a fair price for the flexibility and ease of use. They also work very well IMHO in my set up. Take care
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 14:54:38 GMT
Hi All So now I’ve had the chance to have a listen over the last few weeks maybe it’s time to talk sound. Firstly I noticed that the SQ has improved over time with plenty of play to allow the caps etc. to settle in. Second Teleporters I’ve tried with my WAVEIO connected to the Buffalo 3 and through the Teleporters and I could detect no change as far as overall SQ is concerned so they seem to be working really well. Thirdly the price The modules to enable building the DAC from Twisted Pear came to $750 that’s £466.63 at today’s exchange rate. Plus the cost of two transformers and chassis/hardware etc. So not cheap But With the buffalo3 you get a built in volume control (in the 9018 chip software) and with the Legato 3.1 (buffered version) you get 250ma to drive Headphones with. I’ve not tried it as a pre but it drives my AKG701 very well and for those using a single digital source it would make a great HA/Pre. The build was nice with well thought out manuals and a great support forum to fall back on if things got tricky. Which they did initially I had some signal lock problems but the advice I had was good as was the support received. So none of the you’ve paid your cash now you are on your own attitude that can exist with some. Is it DIY Well TBH its part DIY and part assembling the modules with nearly all of the surface mount stuff done for me (thank god).everything fitted where it should have and the components where good quality units. The SQ in my system with the WAVEIO I was reading through the Buffalo build thread here linked to by spirit (see above) and one of Leo’s comments really seemed to sum up the sound nicely. ‘’it sounds like no other DAC I’ve heard before’’. Yep spot on. It’s so musical with a smooth but extended top end and great bass. Well to be honest it sounds all good to me and meets all of my expectations completely. It seems to avoid the same old ‘’spot lit, etched’’ sound that I’ve come to associate with digital playback and yes SPDIFF does not seem to help that much IMHO.(but thats just my take) So if I had to say it in one word then I’d use two Musical and natural The sort of sound that lets me into the music without the listener fatigue and bright edgy sound that I usually find with most digital stuff. The level of detail retrieval is also pretty mind blowing but the really impressive thing for me is the way that the music is the presented. It just flows A beautiful sounding DAC and for me well worth the cash. I’ve noted the tips provided about PSUs and how much they can impact on the sound and I’m looking forward to trying alternatives But Well ;D Not now I’m still enjoying the standard build tooooo much But later I’m going to be trying to squeeze the pear a little harder. Take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 15:45:11 GMT
creeeeeek it lives thought i should post this here. for anyone interested TP have just released a new AVCC module which I've just received and had a few hours listening. some initial thoughts 8-)from shoom's music emporium from the off the lift in clarity and detail retrieval was far from subtle and the overall improvement it made to the sound obvious. Not that the original was any slouch but the new AVCC is just better. The best $40 I’ve spent in quite some time i like a bargain take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 20:32:28 GMT
Congrats Shaun!
BTW, in the B-III (TB2) pic the is Teleporter connected straight to the reg without a JLH?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 22:19:17 GMT
Congrats Shaun! BTW, in the B-III (TB2) pic the is Teleporter connected straight to the reg without a JLH? Hi Javier well spotted. 3 reasons for that 1) the Teleporter has a pretty good LDO reg 2) space man. I'd rather use another Trident or Tent shunt (both small) to keep the case size down at the moment and snip the LDO if i feel the need. PH will come later and i suspect the case will need to grow a little for that but as it stands the case i have is ''cute'' :-*and I'm reluctant to change it until i need to. how we suffer for our art 3) I've not really found that the extra quality from the JLH made much difference to the sound on the teleporters. i need to do some more work on that and have another listen to be sure. Green house complete time to build another DAC. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 22:53:40 GMT
Nah. Time to listen to a OPA134 through speakers first!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 22:58:19 GMT
Nah. Time to listen to a OPA134 through speakers first! I've not tried the 134 directly powering my speakers but I've heard that it can sound a little under nourished bordering on brittle. ;D ;D don't worry on that Alex it's my morning job DAC is afternoon take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 23:01:54 GMT
time to build another DAC. Anything in mind?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 23:11:27 GMT
time to build another DAC. Anything in mind? Leo's Marmite 5102 DAC take care
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 11:32:25 GMT
Hi All Just a quick heads up on the recently released new updated B III firmware by TP for any users that may have missed it (Mr Pagan . Anyone who has not ordered yet should think about doing so as it’s free except for postal charges. It’s easy to install and just involves reversing all of the dip switches. The info is in the updated Integration guide. take care
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 13:37:57 GMT
Hi all After using Twisted Pears IVYIII with my Opus DAC and liking what I’ve heard I thought that I’d try one with my buffalo as a replacement for the Legato 3.1 that I’ve been using up to now. It’s been interesting to do a direct comparison between the two Boards as they have a different approach to extracting music from the Buffalo DAC. The Legato is an almost Discrete OP stage while the IVYII uses Op amps and yup I know that most people are going to choose the discrete option as that’s usually the best path. But IMHO to my ears in my system it’s not quite as straight forward as that. OK some quick thoughts on the differences The IVYIII seems a little better at digging out fine detail when compared to the Legato but sounds a little dryer in its presentation. The IVY also seems to do a better job of projecting vocals and such like out of the mix while the Legato specialises in musicality. The Legato’s mids are just sublime and leave the IVY sounding just a little dry by comparison. The slightly cleaner top and bottom of the IVY creates a larger more dynamic sound stage compared to the Legato which is till very good in that regard but not quite up with the IVY. So which do I prefer? Well I really do like both and think that they offer outstanding value for money but I think that for most it comes down to personal preference and the type of music listened to. Also the equipment used with them which I’d imagine would make some difference. So in my system For rock, dance, electronica try music I’d take the detail and speed coupled with the great bass of the IVY. For Jazz and such (I don’t do classical) then the Legato’s rich mid and smooth balance may be a better choice. I’ve enjoyed playing with these boards but love them both. Take care
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Post by pagan on May 6, 2013 9:54:01 GMT
Hi Shaun It is difficult to decide between the IVYIII or the Legato 3.1..
At present I'm using the IVY, will change back to the Legato shortly, but then I listen to Jazz mostly. But then, Balanced out for me goes to the KGSS and SE goes to the preamp, for speakers.
With both same psu's ie separate 15v 15VA transformer for each, (so *3) then to early placids on each channel, (the one that are LM based with the CRC on input, then to JLH's) Center channel is via the later Placid, may change this to LM based with JLH.
The digital side is 3* dual 9Volt transformers, so separate power lines for each digital supply. Except analogue at present, all with V2 placids(* 4) into standard Tridents.
next stage to change the Tridents (analogue 3.5volt one's to PH's) Also will probably change the 1.2volt reg to PH too.
Allan
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 10:40:04 GMT
‘’Hi Shaun It is difficult to decide between the IVYIII or the Legato 3.1..’’
Hi Allan
Yes that’s what I’ve found. It really does seem to be about personal preference but it’s still nice to have a choice of flavour.
Keep me posted on what you find with the PH regs as I’m planning on that a little further along the road. TBH I’m still pretty happy with my Buffalo pretty much in standard mode but from what others say the PH make quite a bit of difference so I’ll start thinking on that.
Bigger case first though for me.
Did you find that running your IVY/Legato from three supplies made much difference SQ wise?
Did you check out the Firmware update?
Take care
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Post by pagan on May 6, 2013 13:19:42 GMT
Shaun
Not sure about the I/V stages but I think I prefer the Legato, The detail is still there just a bit more musical.. Just the IVY doesn't have offset to deal with, even in balanced. But then for balanced, I just disconnect the ground on the output.
As for separate transformers and psu's??? need to think about the correct response for this...
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