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Post by morpheus on Sept 14, 2012 11:55:54 GMT
Well, Project Sunrise II is my first tube equipment ever so I got a lot to learn!
About the cryo-treatment I don't know if it is a hype or not. I saw some one over at head-fi speaking good about it, and since it wasn't too expensive in my eyes I would give it a try.
I would be glad too see some other good recommendations on tubes for this amp, and also with some links if possible. I I'm quite skeptical to buy tubes from ebay due to rumors about fakes and so on. But if I get some links to trustworthy ebay sellers I would give it a try.
Frans, since you say it would work O.K, does that mean that its other pots with other values that will fit better? I'm not stuck on the Audio Note pot.
Regards Carl.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2012 22:42:41 GMT
As long as it is good quality, good tracking between L and R, especially at lower levels, doesn't 'scratch' when adjusting and feels 'nice' when adjusting (if you value that) any value between 5k and 100k will do. Going higher will possibly add some noise, going lower might load the source too much. 10k, 20k or 50k will do fine, 100k possibly also. Stepped attenuators can also be used and feel 'nice' when adjusting and have good tracking. The other 'sonis properties' that are attributed to them I cannot verify. Bandwidth of any pot (and stepper) is MUCH wider than the amp itself. a simple volpot can easily do DC to 100kHz without any attenuation at all, 1MHz even (tested this lots of times !). Noise levels will be MUCH lower than that of the amp itself. perhaps on the input of a microphone amp (as gain control in a sensitive circuit) this may be an issue IF the value would be high enough.
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Sept 16, 2012 1:59:02 GMT
Hi Frans, Have read this entire thread. The amp is lovely. Just to double check; I have recently purchased a pair of Audeze LCD-2's. The impedance is 50 ohms and are planar magnetic drivers. As you might know I do not usually listen at high volumes. It looks like the Sunrise would be the better match for these cans than the Horizon. Yes? Thanks, Ron
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 7:58:27 GMT
I listened to an LCD-2 on a SR and it worked well on it (low output R setting) and plays pretty loud even. The (still under development) Ember would be able to drive it even better. That's still months away from production.. The SR-II is just a tiny bit more suited as the Horizon as the impedance of the LCD-2 (or should I say resistance of the LCD-2) is 60 Ohm
The SR-II will play be able to produce 1.5dB more SPL than the Horizon in the LCD-2. The LCD-2 can reach levels of 115dB SPL on the SR-II. Even when listening to very dynamic classic recordings this means 95dB average levels, thus way above 'sane' listening levels.
If you have a pair of LCD-2's (and like the sound) it's highly unlikely you will ever revert back to dynamic headphones unless circumstances dictate (portable usage e.t.c.). Even putting on great HP's like HD800, D7000, T1 e.t.c. on after listening to the better ortho's is nothing more than a big disappointment. The disappointment fades though after a few minutes as the brain adapts. On direct comparisons the difference in SQ is the most evident. After a while you take it for granted and simply enjoy the music without listening out for flaws in the equipment. The HE500 is more bathtubby compared to the LCD-2 where the LCD-2 is more laid back (HD650 style) and the HE500 more DT990 style with a more shiny top. Preferred the LCD-2 over the HE500 but can see why some would prefer it the other way. Bass on the LCD-2 is THE best I ever heard !
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Sept 16, 2012 20:08:11 GMT
If you have a pair of LCD-2's (and like the sound) it's highly unlikely you will ever revert back to dynamic headphones unless circumstances dictate (portable usage e.t.c.). Even putting on great HP's like HD800, D7000, T1 e.t.c. on after listening to the better ortho's is nothing more than a big disappointment. Agree 100% with your evaluation. I've had the LCD's for a little over a week. I keep meaning to do a comparison with my other HP's HD650, AKG 701, DT 880's etc. but the next thing I know it's 2:30 am and I'm still listening to music. Might even get up the courage to do my first RG review! Yes the absolute BEST bass I have ever heard through cans in 40 years of owning way too many. I feel like I'm listening to my friend play his bass in the room with me sometimes. Looks like it would be worth the wait for the new amp. For now I am listening mostly with a stock V2. I have had the parts and tubes for the mod from Mike for some time, but have lost my nerve with a soldering iron. The last time I did anything at all involved was with a Heath Kit walkie-talkie set back in the late 60's. Any recommendation on a reasonably priced iron and appropriate tips to go on it for this application would be appreciated. I'm motivated at last, but don't want to damage the unit. I was lucky as it appears to have very little use when I bought it. The next step will be the LP PSU. Does this sound like a good interim match with my new cans from an engineer's prospective? Does it have enough power etc. ? Thanks for all your time and advice. I know you have to be one busy man. Looking forward to listening to the new design. Will be waiting patiently. It looks fantastic. Ron
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 5:11:54 GMT
For now I am listening mostly with a stock V2. I have had the parts and tubes for the mod from Mike for some time, but have lost my nerve with a soldering iron. Does this sound like a good interim match with my new cans from an engineer's prospective? Does it have enough power etc. ? There is enough power (between 0.7 and 1W depending on used power supply). A stock v2 might benefit in SQ from replacing the output cap and the deletion of the polar input cap (which has no DC on it !) from a technical point of view. A log type potmeter instead of the lin type is also recommended. While at it replacing the other electrocaps might also need renewal because of their age and temps they were exposed to. Any recommendation on a reasonably priced iron and appropriate tips to go on it for this application would be appreciated. I'm motivated at last, but don't want to damage the unit. I was lucky as it appears to have very little use when I bought it. The next step will be the LP PSU. At my work place we have had 3 'cheaper' soldering stations which all went belly up (the irons did) after a few years. They might be O.K. for occasional (non professional) use though. I did find the tips that came with it rather poor as they seemes to 'reject' solder instead of it remaining on the tip. At home I use a Weller 24V iron (for their variable temp controlled stations) connected to a variable power supply. Working on the v2 board isn't the easiest for beginners as the pads come off easily. Best way to prevent this seemed to be by using de-solder braid (soder wick) to clear the pad and bending the bent leg of the part towards the centre of the pad while heating it with the iron tip. Once the pins are completely free the parts can be taken out easily. You might loose a pad though in that case scratch away some of the solder mask of the trace and bend the leg of the part over it and solder. The SR boards are high quality double sided boards but IMO too thick to properly desolder (a Jeremy decision as customers want this thicker board)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 5:53:37 GMT
Frans I have had similar experiences with cheap soldering stations, with the controller usually failing first. I have also had similar experiences with tips. The soldering iron that I used for many years was a 50V DC Adcola iron that Telstra used. I was lucky enough to obtain a few replacement elements and bits that only needed to be filed occasionally until the bits were too worn, after the LME Processor controlled X/BAR exchanges (ARE 11) were replaced by the later System 12 and AXE Digital type exchanges.. Mine was powered by a 22V a side dual bench supply across the - and + outputs . It was easy to turn the voltage down a little to keep it a little below optimum temperature in between tasks.I really miss that ergonomic iron. Alex
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Sept 17, 2012 5:56:02 GMT
Thanks so much for the advise. I'm assuming these mods are in addition to ones I would be doing with Mike's kit. Thanks to for the heads up on the iron. I know I have seen Weller's over here. I have a few old PCB's I can practice on.
Any other amp/LCD's matches you've heard a positive note about??
Have a good week Frans,
Ron
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 15:04:37 GMT
The LCD-2 is quite easy to drive, although reports say different and statements as 'power hungry' are used, simply because the volpot needs to be turned up a notch higher compared to most other cans. HP's like the AKG K1000 (40x less sensitive) and the HE-6 (20x less sensitive) are real 'power hungry' headphones In comparison the K701 is even (slightly) less efficient than the LCD2-rev2. It's completely flat impedance, which is more like a resistance because of it, together with it's value (close to 60 Ohms for rev 2 and close to 50 Ohms for the old version) combined with the not even that bad efficiency for an ortho (under 1mW for rev2 and under 0.5mW for the original to reach 90dB) makes them easy to drive to NORMAL listening levels. Most amplifiers will be able to give enough voltage and supply the corresponding drawn current to even listen to classical music with loud crescendo's without reaching the limits of these amps. To drive them to their max. rating (15W !) is another story. The SPL that goes with that power = 130dB that's twice as loud as the pain treshold. To reach it you would have to connect it to a power amp that can deliver 100W into 8 Ohm or 200W into 4 Ohm. Don't think anyone will wear it unless that person is almost death. The gut reaction of a normal human being would be to throw them of your head. Why the 15W rating ? That's because of it's construction not because it is meant to be driven at those levels I tried/compared it on 4 different amps and one of them was a SR, 2 were other designs (from me) and one was the Neco portable. I dare not say how it will sound on other amps than the ones I used but the Neco 9V portable fell short at higher than normal levels because it ran out of power. On normal levels it sounded good on the neco by the way. Because I only 'trust' a few sets of ears I dare not say how it sounds on other amps so can make no recommendations. Most desktop amps should be able to drive it to more than acceptable levels. The LCD-2 is not for everyone. It has some of the HD650 characteristics where the highs are relatively subdued but do not lack details you need to get accustomed to it's presentation. Most headphones that are rolled off or limited in frequency range lack the finest details that make music sound real. Other headphones with peaks in the 5 to 10KHz region may sound very detailed but secretly may not reveal the finer nuances or may cause listening fatique after a few hours. The LCD2 does not (cause fatique).
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ronzo56
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Post by ronzo56 on Sept 18, 2012 3:56:46 GMT
Thanks again for all the great information Frans. I really learn a lot from being part of RG. No comment on some other forums. I agree, the LCD-2's are not for everyone. Those who really like the treble of the Beyer DT series might not like these cans. As I listen more to the LCD's the more I want to describe the sound as closer to the way the sound is when attending an opera or a classical concert in a acoustically good hall. Whenever I go to these kinds of concerts after a long absence, I realize that live sound is not fatiguing and that the treble I hear from my speakers and cans is not what I hear in the concert hall. But now, I think the LCD's come close to the concert hall. Being a rocker most of my life, I sometimes forget the "other" kind of concert sound. Now my problem is my curiosity as to the sound of the LCD with the SR. What to do? ? Cheers, Ron
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 19, 2012 13:30:03 GMT
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layums
100+
Thank you for the untips
Just started electrical fixing, to go with my other fixing bad habits :)
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Post by layums on Sept 20, 2012 5:17:15 GMT
Just thought I'd ask. How much for 4 of these? Pm me mike.
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layums
100+
Thank you for the untips
Just started electrical fixing, to go with my other fixing bad habits :)
Posts: 111
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Post by layums on Sept 26, 2012 6:52:35 GMT
I don't know if Ian recognises this amp anymore as it has undergone some (radical) changes. It has an extra PCB below the original one. On that PCB is autobias and autoheater select (pop in a dual triode 6V or 12V tube and it completely sets itself) Also a high-low output resistance switch is below the output socket (so no need to take the top off anymore to set jumpers) Also I moved the power switch to the front and installed a green 'on' LED and red 'stand-by' LED. Technically it has also been upgraded to Sunrise-II (cathode and relay circuit) and a 5 Ohm minimal output resistance and has an RCA line out. This line out only has 4x gain where as the Sunrise-II / Horizon has 20x gain as a pre-amp. Oooo I have this now.just lovely.its keeping me listening in the study.popped in a mullard ecc88 and its sweet.got a few over tubes kicking about so will do a bit of a swap and listen.its so easy with this amp, so shy not. Thanks Frans!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 20:09:29 GMT
As of October 1st 2012 technical support and service for Sunrise(II) and Horizon amplifiers as well as the upcoming devices will be done through the European representative.
Technical questions can be asked directly at: solderdude4u[at]gmail[dot]com
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 18:24:49 GMT
Hi, Frans
As you may remember, I have both the Horizon and the Sunrise I (updated by Jeremy) amps.
I am thinking of buying the HE-500, and, while I presume that both of the above amps will drive these, I wonder which of the two would specification-wise be most suitable, and likely to give me the best sound.
I would appreciate your comments on this.
Best Regards, Israel
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 19:45:53 GMT
Israel, Frans has left this forum for good. He left this email address for contact: solderdude4u[at]gmail[dot]com
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 21:23:14 GMT
Thanks, Javier!
I did receive an email message about this from both him and Ian.
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